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Wikileaks damage to alternative 9/11 theories

Indeed. Even in small bureaucracies, stuff gets missed. Just today, one of my trainees at work had to track down why one of his requests (for someone to do something) from May had gotten lost. One stage had been done, and the next stage was just sort of sitting there. And this is in an organization with maybe 1000-1500 people, that does a very focused job, in which we all use the exact same computer system to monitor our workflow.

The CIA/FBI organization is guaranteed to be orders of magnitude more complicated than we are.

When we have a problem with our computer system, I sometimes run a trace on the database activity to troubleshoot. Within a few seconds, there are thousands of commands recorded in the trace. I know the answer is in there somewhere...but where?

And this is when I KNOW there's a problem. Imagine having to sift through all that information to find something that MIGHT be there.

Again...this is a small organization.
 
Again...this is a small organization.

Don't you love how this all plays into the conspiracy mindset? The government is watching EVERYONE, so it's just impossible to fathom how they couldn't know where every suspected terrorist on the planet is and what they had for breakfast.

They know man, they know!
 
We are staying on topic.

You strayed into the "small cabal" territory. So please provide a coherent theory that uses a "small cabal." It should be easy.

It should be fantastically easy to lay it out.

Why can't any truther EVER do that? (besides for the wonderful antisemites who blame it all on the jews, we never get anything near a coherent theory....)

Irrelevant to the OP.

Do you think Wikileaks has damaged alternative 9/11 theories?

Do you think the information available to only small cabal on a need-to-know basis, would be as widely available as that contained in the recent document release?
 
Surely the recent leak of over 91,000 documents relating to the Afghan war damages the theory that the 9/11 attacks could be kept secret in the age of extended media?

Greetings Walrus,

Thanks for posting this topic. I think it has importance. It is to be recalled that one of Wikileaks' earliest massive postings involed 9/11 pager messages:

"9/11 pager messages
On 25 November 2009, Wikileaks released 570,000 intercepts of pager messages from the day of the September 11 attacks.[131] Among the released messages are communications between Pentagon officials and New York City Police Department.[citation needed"


That data is good to have in the public domain.

There exists evidence of a certain bias at the helm of Wikileaks, including the statement attributed to Julian Assange, as follows:

""I'm constantly annoyed that people are distracted by false conspiracies such as 9/11, when all around we provide evidence of real conspiracies, for war or mass financial fraud."

Source: http://911blogger.com/news/2010-07-22/wikileaks-founder-julian-assange-annoyed-911-truth

That statement may serve to slow or even thwart Wikileaks' ability to be fair and unbiased with respect to other 9/11 data submittals it might receive.

We'll just have to wait and see what happens, but it is doubtful that Wikileaks can be of use to 9/11 Whistleblowers.

Even more disquieting about Wikileaks' ability to publish 9/11 disclosures in future is the change from the original policy that allowed anyone to post anything. For a time, at least, there were no obstacles that would prevent 9/11 WHISTLEBLOWERS from posting their data at Wikileaks.

For what it is worth, the way in which to submit information to Wikileaks is:

http://wikileaks.org/wiki/WikiLeaks:Submissions

But, that was then. Now, there is a huge and significant limitation in effect at Wikileaks:

"However, Wikileaks established an editorial policy that accepted only documents that were "of political, diplomatic, historical or ethical interest".[47] This coincided with early criticism that having no editorial policy would drive out good material with spam and promote "automated or indiscriminate publication of confidential records."[48] It is no longer possible for anybody to post to it or edit it, as the original FAQ promised. Instead, submissions are regulated by an internal review process and some are published, while documents not fitting the editorial criteria are rejected by anonymous Wikileaks reviewers. By 2008, the revised FAQ stated that "Anybody can post comments to it. [...] Users can publicly discuss documents and analyze their credibility and veracity."[49] After the 2010 relaunch, posting new comments to leaks was not possible any more.[50]"

47.^ "WikiLeaks' submissions page". Wikileaks.org. http://wikileaks.org/wiki/Wikileaks:Submissions. Retrieved 2010-06-17.
48.^ "Wikileaks and untracable document disclosure". Secrecy News (Federation of American Scientists). 3 January 2007. http://www.fas.org/blog/secrecy/2007/01/wikileaks_and_untraceable_docu.html. Retrieved 21 August 2008.
49.^ "What is Wikileaks? How does Wikileaks operate?". Wikileaks. 2008. Archived from the original on 2008-05-04. http://web.archive.org/web/20080504...is_Wikileaks.3F_How_does_Wikileaks_operate.3F. Archived by the Internet Archive on May 4, 2008 from the original.
50.^ Dave Gilson (May 19, 2010). "WikiLeaks Gets A Facelift". Mother Jones. http://motherjones.com/mojo/2010/05/wikileaks-assange-returns. Retrieved 2010-06-17.


Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikileaks

When Assange's stated bias is coupled with the editorial policy, it is very clear that an alternative to Wikileaks is needed. Something entitled, perhaps, 9/11leaks based on use of the same sort of software that Wikileaks is based on should be set up forthwith.

Accordingly:

Now is the time for all true patriots to come to the aid of their country... :)
 
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For a time, at least, there were no obstacles that would prevent 9/11 WHISTLEBLOWERS from posting their data at Wikileaks.

Now it's just old age. :cool:

The pager messages were yet another nail in the proverbial Truther coffin. Especially for the "no planers". You should give them a perusal.
 
Now it's just old age. :cool:

The pager messages were yet another nail in the proverbial Truther coffin. Especially for the "no planers". You should give them a perusal.

I have given the data a perusal, which is not to say a thorough analysis. How thorough has your analysis been?

Perhaps that data may be best discussed in a separate thread? From what I remember about the data is that it was similar to the valid witness statements; i.e., lots of uncertainty about what happened with the main report being that of "an explosion."

Do you recall the data you reviewed as being different from what I recall?
 
Irrelevant to the OP.

Do you think Wikileaks has damaged alternative 9/11 theories?

Do you think the information available to only small cabal on a need-to-know basis, would be as widely available as that contained in the recent document release?

You are the one who went off topic. YOu are the one which brought in the "small cabal" of insiders necessary (in your opinion) to do 9/11. I can link you to debuking911.com's list of several thousand individuals necessary to pull of 9/11 as based on the current truther theories.

so if you have a "small cabal" of individuals who would be in the know about 9/11 please identify them.

I think that Wikileaks is and has put the final nail in the rotting corpse that is the 9/11 truth movement. Watching how they have handled the US government over the state department papers and the afghan war papers shows us that any whistleblower who had inside information on 9/11 could EASILY leak those documents and be safe... yet no documents have been leaked. Go figure.

So again, tell me how "small" this "cabal" would be. Your ******** theory (which made me ROFLMAO) about only needing 1 person wouldn't work.

So first you need to develop ANY COHERENT THEORY that explains the events of the day. Then you need to show who this cabal is.

Personally I am reminded of the old saying "the only way to keep a secret between 3 people is if 2 of them are dead." Information LEAKS from EVERYTHING. US nuclear secrets, Missle launch codes, Mafia informers (we all know what happens to people who squeal, but they keep on squealing), heck good ole Billy Clinton couldn't keep a private affair with an intern secret... but we are supposed to believe that a "small cabal" of individuals, who would need massive amounts of "need to know" specialists, and yet not one has ever kept a document, an email, and none of them are smart enough to figure out what they helped do? REally?

so this is a plan created by a cross between the A team and Rainman... got it.
 
I have given the data a perusal, which is not to say a thorough analysis. How thorough has your analysis been?

Perhaps that data may be best discussed in a separate thread? From what I remember about the data is that it was similar to the valid witness statements; i.e., lots of uncertainty about what happened with the main report being that of "an explosion."

Do you recall the data you reviewed as being different from what I recall?

I went over several thousand last November. They're pretty mundane "Got to get pizza" kinda stuff. Hundreds referring to the planes that struck the Towers though.

I discovered the reference to the CIA "Acoustic Kitty" program, immediately after which wiki was edited, seen here:http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Acoustic_Kitty&diff=330898893&oldid=328269121

It was subsequently edited out as being "trivial". Very unusual wouldn't you agree?


edit: here's the original post in that thread http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=5347182#post5347182
 
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From the prior post:




The following is found in the Account of FBI Agent Ali Soufan: page 66-67 THE NEW YORKER, JULY 10, 2006. This information was given to Lawrence Wright by FBI Agent Steve Bongardt, FBI Agent Ali Soufan's assistant on the Cole bombing investigation, and was vetted by John Miller, information officer at the FBI.

"In November, 2000, a month after the Cole bombing, Soufan sent the agency (the CIA) the first of several official queries. On Soufan's behalf, the director of the F.B.I. sent a letter to the director of the C.I.A., formally ask*ing for information about Khallad, and whether there might have been an Al Qaeda meeting somewhere in Southeast Asia before the bombing. The agency said that it had nothing. Soufan trusted this response; he thought that he had a good working relationship with the agency."

From the DOJ IG report: Pages 238-239:

"In the midst of the Millennium period concerns in late 1999, the NSA analyzed communications associated with a suspected terrorist facility in the Middle East linked to Al Qaeda activities directed against U.S. interests. The communications indicated that several members of an "operational cadre" were planning to travel to Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia, in early January 2000. Analysis of the communications revealed that persons named Nawaf, Khalid and Salem were involved. In early 2000, the NSA analyzed what appeared to be related communications concerning a "Khalid." The NSA's reporting about these communications was sent, among other places, to FBI Headquarters, the FBI's Washington and New York Field Offices, and the CIA's CTC. At the FBI, this information appeared in the daily threat update to the Director on January 4, 2000."

From the 9/11 Commission report, page 181:

“The Counterterrorist Center,(CTC CIA was headed by Cofer Black) had briefed the CIA leadership on the gathering in Kuala Lumpur and the information had been passed on to Berger, the NSC staff and to Director Freeh and others at the FBI.”

From the above, you get:(?)

It is clear that Louis Freeh, Director of the FBI, knew about the al Qaeda planning meeting in Kuala Lumpur that took place in January 2000, and even the first names of the several of the people who were to attend this meeting because the CIA had given him this very information in January 2000, before FBI Agent Ali Soufan’s request. In fact the CIA had photographs of Khalid al-Mihdhar, Nawaf al-Hazmi and even Walid Bin Attash (the mastermind of the Cole bombing) that had been taken at that meeting, and even knew at this time that they had been actually planning this al Qaeda attack on the USS Cole at this meeting. This was because Soufan had already given the passport photo of Bin Attash to the CIA Yemen station earlier in November and had identified Bin Attash as the master mind of the Cole bombing. When the CIA compared this photograph to the one they had taken at Kuala Lumpur, they immediately knew that Bin Attash had been at Kuala Lumpur planning the Cole bombing with Mihdhar and Hazmi and that if this came out the CIA would look culpable in this attack.

Soufan was told that the CIA had none of this information. Freeh not only withheld this same information from FBI Agent Soufan, but even knew that the CIA had actually given him the very information Soufan was asking for. When Freeh withheld this information from Soufan, his own lead Cole bombing investigator, in November 2000, this was clear evidence that FBI Director Louis Freeh, and the CIA, had criminally obstructed the FBI investigation of the Cole bombing by withholding the critical information on the Kuala Lumpur meeting. Had this information been passed to the Cole investigators, they could have had the enough time to have prevented the attacks on 9/11.

Had Freeh told Soufan that the CIA had given him this information in January 2000, that Khalid, Nawaf, and Salem , thought to be Nawaf’s younger brother, and all long time al Qaeda terrorists connected to the east Africa bombings, were all traveling to an al Qaeda planning meeting in Kuala Lumpur in January 2000, Soufan might have prevented the attacks on 9/11. Soufan and the Cole bombing investigators already knew that Walid Bin Attash had flown to Bangkok, on January 8, 2000 from Kuala Lumpur. By checking the flight manifest for this flight, Soufan would have found Khalid al-Mihdhar and Nawaf al-Hazmi sitting right next to Bin Attash, using one of his aliases, on this flight, since they already had had Mihdhar and Hazmi's first names.

Soufan and the Cole bombing investigators also already knew that Fahad al-Quso had been blocked from continuing his travels in Bangkok while trying to deliver money to Bin Attash in Kuala Lumpur, and that he had stayed at the Washington Hotel in Bangkok. Had Soufan and the Cole bombing investigators checked the Washington Hotel they would have found Khalid al-Mihdhar and Nawaf al-Hazmi had both stayed at this hotel, the week after January 8, 2000 just before they flew to the US.

It is highly likely that Soufan could have saved the lives of the almost 3000 people killed on 9/11 had Freeh given him the very information he was asking for and which he was in possession of. Unfortunately this was not to be and this criminal obstruction by Freeh and the CIA of the Cole bombing investigation and the murder of 17 US sailors has never been explained.

I must be missing something. Freed supposedly with held info on the planning on the Cole bombing and had he not done so Soufan could have stopped the 9/11 hijackings?

Where is the actual connect between an investigation that leads to solving the Cole bombing , and the stopping of the multiple suicide hijackings in Sept 2001?

Furthermore, is the premise then a strict LIHOP senario in which the 9/11 plot was known by some (presumably Freed at least) but simply allowed to go through? That would allow for the exclusion of all drone planes, faked phone calls, thermite, explosives, space beams, decoy aircraft etc.

Paloalto?
Jihad Jane? (not your post but I forget, do you subscribe to a made it happen or a let it happen senario, or a bit of both?)
 
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Derail

I am just a skeptic who dislikes the US government. I disliked what they did in the aftermath of 9/11 so much I moved out of the US..

Moving from the USA to the UAE because of dislike of government is like jumping from the pot to the surface of the sun. Really?

/Derail
 
And if my grandmother had wheels, she'd be a wagon.

You've obviously never been part of a gigantic bureaucracy. Even in a small organization, crucial information is missed all the time if the signal-to-noise ratio isn't favorable.

This was clearly not the case of crucial information being missed because the FBI and the CIA are gigantic bureaucracies. This was out and out a criminal obstruction of the FBI criminal investigation into the murder of 17 US sailors by the Director of the FBI, Louis Freeh and by the CIA. Withholding material information from any ongoing FBI criminal investigation is a serious crime that can net the perpetrator or perpetrators years in prison. Both FBI Director Louis Freeh and the CIA knew this.

The act of withholding this information from the FBI criminal investigators of the USS Cole bombing that had resulted in the murder of 17 US sailors was just the tip of a gigantic ice berg of continued criminal obstruction of the investigation of the USS Cole, by both the CIA and FBI HQ.

In addition the actions of both the DOJ IG Glenn Fine and the 9/11 Commission show that this was a serious crime, and that that official Washington knew that was a crime and that official Washington was trying to keep this information secret from the American public. Concealment is considered prima fascia evidence and proof in a court of law of intent to hide a serious crime. Both the 9/11 Commission and the DOJ IG kept secret and concealed the fact that FBI Agent Ali Soufan had made an official request to have the Director of the FBI, request from the CIA any information the CIA had on any al Qaeda planning meeting in Kuala Lumpur and any information that the CIA had on Walid Bin Attash.

This information never became public until the article in the July 10, 2006 edition of the New Yorker by Lawrence Wright. Does anyone believe that the DOJ IG Glenn Fine did not know who FBI Agent Ali Soufan was or that he did not know that Soufan had contacted the Director of the FBI Louis Freeh asking for this information in November 2000 and was told that the CIA had none of this information when in fact the CIA not had this information but even had photographs at that time of Walid Bin Attash at the Kuala Lumpur meeting actually planning the Cole bombing with Khalid al-Mihdhar and Nawaf al-Hazmi. The DOJ IG had had access to all of this information including the official request from Soufan to Freeh and from Freeh to the CIA, in addition to having access to the information that was given to Freeh by the NSA and by the CIA in December 1999 and January 2000, and even had access to Freeh’s daily briefing papers where this information was also available. Since the 9/11 Commission had access to the information the DOJ IG investigators had there is also no way this criminal obstruction should not have appeared in the 9/11 Commission report. There was no possible way that the DOJ IG could have not have known that Freeh and the CIA had committed criminal obstruction of the FBI criminal investigation into the murder of 17 US sailors.
 
This was clearly not the case of crucial information being missed because the FBI and the CIA are gigantic bureaucracies. .... Director of the FBI, Louis Freeh .... FBI Director Louis Freeh .... DOJ IG Glenn Fine ... DOJ IG .... the Director of the FBI, .... the DOJ IG Glenn Fine .....the Director of the FBI Louis Freeh .....The DOJ IG... to Freeh and from Freeh .... to Freeh ....to Freeh’s .... the DOJ IG .... the DOJ IG .... that Freeh ....


Do you really think that the heads of "gigantic bureaucracies" are aware of every single routine daily action that anyone in the department takes? Are you at all aware that many of their subordinates act in their name, as duly authorized deputies, to carry out the day-to-day functions of the Department?

Do you think the Director of the FBI personally vets every single request that goes out of the FBI to other agencies? That's not how "gigantic bureaucracies" work.
 
Derail



Moving from the USA to the UAE because of dislike of government is like jumping from the pot to the surface of the sun. Really?

/Derail

I didn't move directly from the USA to the UAE. That would have been like jumping out of the pot onto the sun. We have sort of "ended up here."

Our first move was to central China to work in the oldest, poorest and most populated area of the country. From there we did some time in thailand, Japan and even Korea. In each of the places we have been, we have chosen to go and work and live in extremely poor areas where we felt we could do the most good.

We left because I was disgusted with the regime of the US.

After 3 other countries, we are now in the UAE. Where I also am extremely disgusted by the corruption, dishonesty and outright human rights violations.

I must say one thing for "leaving your country in disgust at the practices in them." It does wonders for making you actually love and realize the benefits of your country more.
 
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This was clearly not the case of crucial information being missed because the FBI and the CIA are gigantic bureaucracies. This was out and out a criminal obstruction of the FBI criminal investigation into the murder of 17 US sailors by the Director of the FBI, Louis Freeh and by the CIA. Withholding material information from any ongoing FBI criminal investigation is a serious crime that can net the perpetrator or perpetrators years in prison. Both FBI Director Louis Freeh and the CIA knew this.

The act of withholding this information from the FBI criminal investigators of the USS Cole bombing that had resulted in the murder of 17 US sailors was just the tip of a gigantic ice berg of continued criminal obstruction of the investigation of the USS Cole, by both the CIA and FBI HQ.

In addition the actions of both the DOJ IG Glenn Fine and the 9/11 Commission show that this was a serious crime, and that that official Washington knew that was a crime and that official Washington was trying to keep this information secret from the American public. Concealment is considered prima fascia evidence and proof in a court of law of intent to hide a serious crime. Both the 9/11 Commission and the DOJ IG kept secret and concealed the fact that FBI Agent Ali Soufan had made an official request to have the Director of the FBI, request from the CIA any information the CIA had on any al Qaeda planning meeting in Kuala Lumpur and any information that the CIA had on Walid Bin Attash.

This information never became public until the article in the July 10, 2006 edition of the New Yorker by Lawrence Wright. Does anyone believe that the DOJ IG Glenn Fine did not know who FBI Agent Ali Soufan was or that he did not know that Soufan had contacted the Director of the FBI Louis Freeh asking for this information in November 2000 and was told that the CIA had none of this information when in fact the CIA not had this information but even had photographs at that time of Walid Bin Attash at the Kuala Lumpur meeting actually planning the Cole bombing with Khalid al-Mihdhar and Nawaf al-Hazmi. The DOJ IG had had access to all of this information including the official request from Soufan to Freeh and from Freeh to the CIA, in addition to having access to the information that was given to Freeh by the NSA and by the CIA in December 1999 and January 2000, and even had access to Freeh’s daily briefing papers where this information was also available. Since the 9/11 Commission had access to the information the DOJ IG investigators had there is also no way this criminal obstruction should not have appeared in the 9/11 Commission report. There was no possible way that the DOJ IG could have not have known that Freeh and the CIA had committed criminal obstruction of the FBI criminal investigation into the murder of 17 US sailors.

again and again you spew personal ignorance and personal incredulity.

You really should read some of the better books out there which cover what was know, who knew it and how it was missed.

Try
Looming Tower
Spying Blind
The Shadow factory

ONce you have finished those, feel free to come back and tell us what they got wrong.
 
If 9/11 were facilitated by a small cabal then their information would not be available to hundreds of thousands of soldiers and defense contractors around the world.

This blows the inside jobby job out of the water.

It takes about twenty people to steal three aircraft and fly them into selected targets.

It would take several times as many to secretly make a couple hundred passengers disappear and to remotely pilot the planes into their targets. It would have to have been approved by at least a few dozen other functiuonaries within the government.

This gets ridiculously complicated when you start thinking of how they would then insure that none of this came to light.

When you finish with Occam's razor, all that remains of twoofishness is a pile of manure.
 
You are the one who went off topic. YOu are the one which brought in the "small cabal" of insiders necessary (in your opinion) to do 9/11. I can link you to debuking911.com's list of several thousand individuals necessary to pull of 9/11 as based on the current truther theories.

so if you have a "small cabal" of individuals who would be in the know about 9/11 please identify them.

I think that Wikileaks is and has put the final nail in the rotting corpse that is the 9/11 truth movement. Watching how they have handled the US government over the state department papers and the afghan war papers shows us that any whistleblower who had inside information on 9/11 could EASILY leak those documents and be safe... yet no documents have been leaked. Go figure.

So again, tell me how "small" this "cabal" would be. Your ******** theory (which made me ROFLMAO) about only needing 1 person wouldn't work.

So first you need to develop ANY COHERENT THEORY that explains the events of the day. Then you need to show who this cabal is.

Personally I am reminded of the old saying "the only way to keep a secret between 3 people is if 2 of them are dead." Information LEAKS from EVERYTHING. US nuclear secrets, Missle launch codes, Mafia informers (we all know what happens to people who squeal, but they keep on squealing), heck good ole Billy Clinton couldn't keep a private affair with an intern secret... but we are supposed to believe that a "small cabal" of individuals, who would need massive amounts of "need to know" specialists, and yet not one has ever kept a document, an email, and none of them are smart enough to figure out what they helped do? REally?

so this is a plan created by a cross between the A team and Rainman... got it.


'What is a conditional statement?'
 
...

I think that Wikileaks is and has put the final nail in the rotting corpse that is the 9/11 truth movement. Watching how they have handled the US government over the state department papers and the afghan war papers shows us that any whistleblower who had inside information on 9/11 could EASILY leak those documents and be safe... yet no documents have been leaked. Go figure.

The above portion of your post is of interest, as it is directly contrary to a post of mine, (poat # 44) also appearing on this page.

See: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6211539&postcount=44

In addition to the obvious bias against 9/11 truth claims that the founder of wikileaks has displayed, there are a variety of other reasons that make your claim about the leaking of 9/11 information totally untenable.

For one thing, 9/11 was a massive psyop, unlike any of the matters for which leaked information have emerged. To date, wikileaks has received notoriety primarily because of a video depicting wanton slaughter in Iraq, a likely war crime; and, lots of chatter from Afghanistan, likewise detailing likely war crimes in a few instances out of a lot of otherwise banal and useless military and diplomatic chit chat.

There is a lot of 9/11 data that is comparable to that already in the public domain. For instance, Condoleeza Rice's claim that 'no one could have imagined hijacking of planes' was directly contradicted by the subsequent revelation that simulated hijackings were taking place on 9/11 at the time of the alleged hijackings.

The information concerning the military exercises on 9/11 is a key area where further leaks, when they occur, might well fracture the grip that the 9/11 psyop has upon the public's consciousness.

The list of people with military experience who have flat out said the common storyline of 9/11 makes no sense is, in and of itself, a form of whistleblowing.

The many disclosures by top ranking members of the 9/11 Commission or its staff are likewise sources of whistleblowing.

Clearly, then, your premise is factually untenable. When the facts are coupled with the bias exhibited by wikileaks' founder, we have a situation where the actual remedy needed is the formation of a website dedicated to "9/11 leaks" as wikileaks has obviously made itself an unworthy candidate for such leaks.

So again, tell me how "small" this "cabal" would be. Your ******** theory (which made me ROFLMAO) about only needing 1 person wouldn't work.

So first you need to develop ANY COHERENT THEORY that explains the events of the day. Then you need to show who this cabal is.

Personally I am reminded of the old saying "the only way to keep a secret between 3 people is if 2 of them are dead." Information LEAKS from EVERYTHING. US nuclear secrets, Missle launch codes, Mafia informers (we all know what happens to people who squeal, but they keep on squealing), heck good ole Billy Clinton couldn't keep a private affair with an intern secret... but we are supposed to believe that a "small cabal" of individuals, who would need massive amounts of "need to know" specialists, and yet not one has ever kept a document, an email, and none of them are smart enough to figure out what they helped do? REally?

so this is a plan created by a cross between the A team and Rainman... got it.

The above is awfully disjoined in my view and at variance with the actual state of development of the challenges to the common storyline of 9/11. Very few people actually advocate for the veracity of the common storyline; instead, the state of the art seems to be that the common storyline is still the beneficiary of something like a "plausibility standard" that it barely passes.

By and large, the common storyline is "believed" because the alternative to belief in it is too painful for many to deal with.

I personally think that is one reason why the reactions to evidence and information that I post up is usually of an emotional nature.
 
Obvious bias against 9/11 truth claims? Are you KIDDING me? Is that how you rationalize it? More like he has an obvious bias against idiocy, jammonius.
 
I personally think that is one reason why the reactions to evidence and information that I post up is usually of an emotional nature.

I personally think the reactions to your "evidence" is of an emotional nature because it is simultaneously breathtakingly stupid and stunningly caustic, but you can interpret it whatever way you want.
 

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