Why truthers are dangerouse!

[funk de fino]

A simple solution would be to avoid launching unprovoked, aggressive wars in the first place.

Everything is so simple in La La land. Care to take back your false claims yet?

No $2.40 gallons here in the UK eh?

 

[stilicho]

Quote:
So, are you saying that we WEREN'T attacked?? Or that we DIDN'T have to right to be suspicious?? You can kiss my ass if you think otherwise.

I'm saying that, post-911, the threat from terrorism has been exaggerated by the US and other governments, just as the Russian threat was exaggerated, and just as the threat from Iraq was exaggerated and, now, just as the threat from Iran is exaggerated.

The list of exaggerated threats is almost as long as the list of US military interventions.

How insincere. You were asked whether the US was attacked by terrorists and not whether the threat of terrorism has been exaggerated.

Anyone with an inkling of knowledge about the "Cold" War, specifically the Berlin blockade, the Cuban Missile Crisis, the Hungarian, Czech, and Polish revolts, Soviet foreign policy in east Asia, expansionary Russian naval strategy in the Mediterranean, and myriad other events and policies would stare at your grand pronouncement of exaggerated threat either with disgust or laughter. (I choose laughter, by the way, as it's obvious you're writing in an exaggerated style.)

I'm looking forward to your answer to the question actually being asked: "Are you saying the US was not attacked by terrorists on 9/11?" Yes or no.

 

[funk de fino]

The carnage wrought by US air strikes in particular, in addition to the chronic insecurity created by the occupation, has meant that the Afghans now prefer the Taliban, who they hate, to the US, who they hate even more!

Any retraction of this proven false claim yet?

 

[BadBoy]

Hi JJ

I kind of agree with you that the US is an aggressive nation on the world stage. That doesn’t mean I hate the US or Americans. In fact I love the US and if it wasn’t for their odd medical insurance system and dodgy schools Id love to live there. I can dislike individuals, not a whole population and I don’t think you hate America or Americans either. I DO think you are spouting from a left wing spring of propaganda and your posts are obviously very biased. You don’t sound to me like a "critical thinker" because I think I could almost guess your position on a specific political argument, just as I could guess the position on any given point from an orthodox right wing republican Christian.

I do wonder how much US involvement in the world is just policing on behalf of the moral majority, and how much is strategy based on "a perceived threat to state security" whether that be oil, the spread of fundamentalism, nuclear threat etc. I suspect a bit of both. Its probably impossible to know for sure.

However I also think that given their role in the world economy (a very important one) they are one of the only nations who can do what needs to be done effectively and dare I say it humanely as possible and on the whole I think as a nation they do much more good than harm. I saw an interview with Bob Geldof once where they were discussing African aid. He surprised me when he said "as usual, the USA was far more generous than they originally agreed, in both aid and transport – they always are". It surprised me because Sir Bob didn’t seem to me to be a big supporter of US world politics.

I’m not sure I go along with the idea/argument that keeping a population scared keeps it under control. Not sure if any government is organized to actively create such an environment. This idea is discussed in one (or two) of Michael Moore’s films. If I remember he tries to suggest that Islamic Fundamentalism has replaced the fear of communism and is pervaded by the “establishment”. I think the discussion around McCarthyism was referring to that idea.

Having said all that, I also do believe that religious fundamentalism and perhaps especially Islamic fundamentalism breeds hatred and injustice and seeks to remove people’s freedom. I’m an atheist as well as a humanist and see fundamentalism as a dangerous force. It’s a tricky subject, but I see a lot of parallels with fascism:

“the fundamental belief of fascism being that human beings are motivated by glory and heroism rather than economic motives, in contrast to the worldview of capitalism and socialism” (Wikipedia)

Unfortunately, Islamic Fundamentalism does exist, it’s not nice and needs to be watched carefully and if that means policing Afghanistan then so be it. In this era of political correctness and the globalization of peoples and culture (a good thing I think), and a shrinking globe and human rights, its still important to recognize political regimes that are oppressive and corrupt. And I believe they do exist and should be “managed” whenever possible and/or credible.

 

[Childlike Empress]

Here is an interesting interview with afghan woman's rights activist Malalai Joya. She is explicitly asked for her opinion on the narrative about the situation in Afghanistan the american people get from the TV. Even she prefers the Taliban over US occupation.

 

[BadBoy]

Here is an interesting interview with afghan woman's rights activist Malalai Joya. She is explicitly asked for her opinion on the narrative about the situation in Afghanistan the american people get from the TV. Even she prefers the Taliban over US occupation.

dont think anyone agrees the situation is perfect. However, it makes you wonder if she would still be either a. in Afghanistan or b. alive if the coalition forces hadn’t invaded.

Ultimately, publically, the governments of the occupying forces in principle support her rights as a woman. The Taliban, publically, does not.

 

[carlitos]

Ultimately, publically, the governments of the occupying forces in principle support her rights as a woman. The Taliban, publically, does not.

That is a very good point. I think the same thing whenever I see 'queers for palestine' in the protest marches. Why cheerlead for someone that wants you dead? Or in the case of the women under the Taliban, thinks that you have no rights.

After listening to the interview, she makes some silly points. White phosphorus, Bush war crimes, yada yada.

She asserts that "democracy never comes from war." Ask the European Union, the Phillipines, Japan or South Korea about this.

She was against the warlords, was against the Taliban, and now she's against Obama (he's worse than Bush!) and the Americans. She seems to be in permanent opposition to everyone but herself.

 

[funk de fino]

Here is an interesting interview with afghan woman's rights activist Malalai Joya. She is explicitly asked for her opinion on the narrative about the situation in Afghanistan the american people get from the TV. Even she prefers the Taliban over US occupation.

Thats one. The poll I posted trumps yours.

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

As amusing as all this banter is, have the twoofers been able to prove that members of their movement did not kill 3 police officers, two doctors, a security guard, assault an elected official, stalk dozens of others, beat up a girl in a wheelchair and smuggle guns and explosives to wanted fugitives?

Well?

 

[Gaspode]

Derail moved to AAH. Back on topic please.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Gaspode

 

[911kongen]

As amusing as all this banter is, have the twoofers been able to prove that members of their movement did not kill 3 police officers, two doctors, a security guard, assault an elected official, stalk dozens of others, beat up a girl in a wheelchair and smuggle guns and explosives to wanted fugitives?

Well?

I know it is a lot to ask for, but do you have any source on this? Would LOVE to have collected all attacks made by twoofers an conspiracy-nuts and make a blogg about it. Maby updating it every time we have a new attack!

 

[UWdude]

As amusing as all this banter is, have the twoofers been able to prove that members of their movement did not kill 3 police officers, two doctors, a security guard, assault an elected official, stalk dozens of others, beat up a girl in a wheelchair and smuggle guns and explosives to wanted fugitives?

Well?

I wonder how many of those attackers fell into any of these categories:
Democrat
republican
Christian
Pot smoker
On clinical antidepressants
etc, etc


I can say, without a doubt, that christian women by and large are much more likely to kill their children. Does that then mean christian women are dangerous?

 

[Sam.I.Am]

I wonder how many of those attackers fell into any of these categories:
Democrat
republican
Christian
Pot smoker
On clinical antidepressants
etc, etc


I can say, without a doubt, that christian women by and large are much more likely to kill their children. Does that then mean christian women are dangerous?

*insert "Your mom" joke here*

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

I know it is a lot to ask for, but do you have any source on this? Would LOVE to have collected all attacks made by twoofers an conspiracy-nuts and make a blogg about it. Maby updating it every time we have a new attack!

Truthers killing:

3 Pittsburgh Police Officers
(Suspects reading material list is a who's who of 9/11 twoof sites)

Doctor #1
(Killer was victims son, an officer of the local "We Are Change" and one-time Alex Jones guest)
Doctor #2
(Convicted killer of abortionist Dr. George Tillers beliefs just scream 9/11 truther, however no confirmation of 9/11 wackiness from him has emerged yet)
US National Holocaust Museum Security Guard
(James Von Brunn was a confirmed truther, died a few months ago in prison hospital due to health issues unrelated to the shooting)

Since I posted the "hit list" you responded to, 9/11 truther John Patrick Bedell opened fire on two police officers at the Pentagon. Bedell died shortly thereafter from wounds received from the officers return fire.

 

[UWdude]

Truthers killing:
en.wikipedia org/wiki/2009_Pittsburgh_police_shootings"]
3 Pittsburgh Police Officers
(Suspects reading material list is a who's who of 9/11 twoof sites)

or a white supremecist, since he visited stromfront

screwloosechange.blogspot com/search?q=Sean+Fitzgerald"]
Doctor #1
(Killer was victims son, an officer of the local "We Are Change" and one-time Alex Jones guest)

also had serious mental problems, a concussion, probably on medications.

Doctor #2
(Convicted killer of abortionist Dr. George Tillers beliefs just scream 9/11 truther, however no confirmation of 9/11 wackiness from him has emerged yet)

then why list it?

US National Holocaust Museum Security Guard
(James Von Brunn was a confirmed truther, died a few months ago in prison hospital due to health issues unrelated to the shooting)

Confirmed truther? By who? Geraldo?

9/11 truther John Patrick Bedell
opened fire on two police officers at the Pentagon. Bedell died shortly thereafter from wounds received from the officers return fire.

Also pot smoker, on antidepressants.

some other similarities:

all of them were white males: therefore, white males are dangerous

most of them had been in the military: therefore, all ex military are dangerouse.

Most of them had psychiatric problems, and were more than likely on medications: therefore psychiatric medications are dangerous.

Some of them were known to smoke herb... lock em all up!!



Also, if we were to be completely honest, and wanted to view this "skeptically", we would have to quantify up all the mass shootings, and then see what percentage of them had been precipitated by "truthers", if less than 25% of them had been, then the "truther" part would be irrelevant.


You can color it however you want, but correlation =/= causation. I would venture to bet most domestic shootings are committed by people who listen to either country or hip-hop, and while country and hip-hop both for their own reasons give unrealistic views of relationships, it is not the fault of the said types of music, that cause people to murder their family members.

 

[Grizzly Bear]

I don't think it's so much the label of truther that's the causation as much as it is that the people happen to be "truthers" on the side. This is one of the few threads where I disagree with the association being made. :\

To commit murder requires a sick mind to begin with and not all people with crazy ideas are inclined to go as far a killing another person. The "danger" if anything may well be the "information" as one of the ways society is influenced is through the flow of it. The movement continues trying to exploit people's ignorance in relevant fields to sway opinions and my main concern would more lie in how much this incompetence and ignorance begins to infest professional fields of study. Get one of these crazies to practice bat poo crazy methodology in a professional work environment would endanger lives. But associating crime with the requirement to be a bat poo crazy conspiracy theorist is a broad and often inaccurate association (although the lack of condemnation of the sickest individuals within the movement is probably as disturbing as some people committing the crimes being in their ranks).

 

[Prometheus]

<snip>
You can color it however you want, but correlation =/= causation. I would venture to bet most domestic shootings are committed by people who listen to either country or hip-hop, and while country and hip-hop both for their own reasons give unrealistic views of relationships, it is not the fault of the said types of music, that cause people to murder their family members.

True, but so what? Who cares if being a truther causes one to become dangerous? The correlation is important, whatever the cause. Of course, it's also true that we don't actually know that even a significant correlation exists from such a small number of cases. But if a correlation can be established that certainly tells us that its wise to stay away from truthers even if the real cause is that truthers are more likely to be drug-addicted, neo-nazi, ex-military crazies, or whatever.

 

[eddyjoke]

I don't know what really happened on 9/11 but I know that governments have done evil things in the past and will continue to do evil in the future.

Did the government literally knock the towers down? Maybe not.

But there are other claims about foreknowledge and how they reacted to 9/11 afterwards.

Why there is such a rush to condemn people who are interested in finding out truth is a bit disheartening.

 

[TexasJack]

I don't know what really happened on 9/11 but I know that governments have done evil things in the past and will continue to do evil in the future.

Did the government literally knock the towers down? Maybe not.

But there are other claims about foreknowledge and how they reacted to 9/11 afterwards.

Why there is such a rush to condemn people who are interested in finding out truth is a bit disheartening.

Nobody is condemning the people that can't figure out how to properly research or discern the information that overwhelmingly points to the 19 hijackers, funded and planned by Al Qaeda, but those truthers that resort to violent methods, hence the OP of this thread, are being condemned.

 

[Christopher7]

you lie.

liar!