Why there is no Christian reason to oppose Abortion

[acbytesla]

I've never understood why fundamentalist Christians oppose abortion. They clearly DO NOT know scripture. The commandment doesn't say Thou shall not kill, it says Thou shall not murder. God orders the Jews to kill people for all kinds of offenses. A husband has a right to slay his bride if she turns out not be a virgin, an unruly child may be taken to the edge of town to be stoned. One can be stoned for picking up sticks on the Sabbath.

There simply is no scriptural injunction against abortion.

 

[theprestige]

Except for the whole, "thou shalt not murder" injunction, of course.

Note that in your other examples, the death penalty is permitted for specific crimes.

What specific crime has an unborn child committed? Killing people who have committed no crime is kind of what the whole "murder" thing was invented for.

---

"Don't kill people unnecessarily" is a pretty much universal value among human societies. Then we argue incessantly about what counts as "necessary" killing, and we argue about who gets to decide what's necessary. And when it comes to abortion, we argue about what counts as "people".

 

[ahhell]

What specific crime has an unborn child committed?

Squatting

 

[Crossbow]

I've never understood why fundamentalist Christians oppose abortion. They clearly DO NOT know scripture. The commandment doesn't say Thou shall not kill, it says Thou shall not murder. God orders the Jews to kill people for all kinds of offenses. A husband has a right to slay his bride if she turns out not be a virgin, an unruly child may be taken to the edge of town to be stoned. One can be stoned for picking up sticks on the Sabbath.

There simply is no scriptural injunction against abortion.

Considering how few Christians actually read the Bible, then one should not be surprised to see so many Christians incorrectly applying what is actually in the Bible.


<snip>

Edited by Loss Leader: 

Edited for Rule 11

 

[theprestige]

Squatting

If only. Squatters have rights. If they were squatting, the mom could never get rid of them. Actually giving birth would be a felony.

 

[Belz...]

Easy: Christians consider abortion to be murder. Problem solved.

 

[acbytesla]

Except for the whole, "thou shalt not murder" injunction, of course.

Note that in your other examples, the death penalty is permitted for specific crimes.

What specific crime has an unborn child committed? Killing people who have committed no crime is kind of what the whole "murder" thing was invented for.

---

"Don't kill people unnecessarily" is a pretty much universal value among human societies. Then we argue incessantly about what counts as "necessary" killing, and we argue about who gets to decide what's necessary. And when it comes to abortion, we argue about what counts as "people".

What about original sin? But let's put that aside. What crime did the children of the Amalkites commit? What sin did the unruly child commit? What sins did the 42 children God slayed for teasing Elisha?

Do you think you have a right to kill a woman because she is not a virgin? Was Jeptha right to slaughter his daughter? How about Amercan soldiers killing German soldiers in WWII?

If you accept one as wrong, don't you have to also accept that it is ok to do the others? The Bible doesn't say what constitutes the start of life.

But here is the bigger point. It's NOT a commandment. The Bible doesn't say what is or isn't a legal killing.

 

[acbytesla]

Easy: Christians consider abortion to be murder. Problem solved.

But their justification is faulty. It's not based on scripture. It's based on Church tradition to subjugate women.

 

[ahhell]

So I looked for polling of atheists views on abortion for ***** and giggles. The only results I found asked, "should abortion be...." "Legal under all/most conditions" "illegal under all/most conditions?" This annoys me because most people think it should legal under in some situations and illegal in some, about 10% of atheists believe abortion should always be illegal.


Anyrate, more interesting they asked, of atheists if they believe in god and a non-zero number of them said they are certain god exists. WTF?

 

[theprestige]

What about original sin? But let's put that aside. What crime did the children of the Amalkites commit? What sin did the unruly child commit? What sins did the 42 children God slayed for teasing Elisha?

Do you think you have a right to kill a woman because she is not a virgin? Was Jeptha right to slaughter his daughter? How about Amercan soldiers killing German soldiers in WWII?

If you accept one as wrong, don't you have to also accept that it is ok to do the others? The Bible doesn't say what constitutes the start of life.

But here is the bigger point. It's NOT a commandment. The Bible doesn't say what is or isn't a legal killing.

You seem to be arguing that there's no Christian reason to oppose murder.

 

[Belz...]

But their justification is faulty. It's not based on scripture.

No, it isn't. I don't think the bible defines "murder" much anyway. But "Christianity" is not just the bible. Your thread title isn't specifically about the book.

It's based on Church tradition to subjugate women.

I very much doubt they came up with that with this goal in mind.

 

[The Big Dog]

Psalm 139:13-16

13
For you created my inmost being;
you knit me together in my mother’s womb.
14
I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made;
your works are wonderful,
I know that full well.
15
My frame was not hidden from you
when I was made in the secret place,
when I was woven together in the depths of the earth.
16
Your eyes saw my unformed body;
all the days ordained for me were written in your book
before one of them came to be.

 

[nelsondogg]

For Christians that believe an aborted fetus' soul goes straight to heaven, you can construct a Christian argument in favor of abortion. In fact, you can argue that a Christian woman should have a many abortions as possible over the course of her reproductive life. That is if you assume that maximising the number of souls that go to heaven is something god wants.

 

[acbytesla]

Psalm 139:13-16

13
For you created my inmost being;
you knit me together in my mother’s womb.
14
I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made;
your works are wonderful,
I know that full well.
15
My frame was not hidden from you
when I was made in the secret place,
when I was woven together in the depths of the earth.
16
Your eyes saw my unformed body;
all the days ordained for me were written in your book
before one of them came to be.

So? How is that an injunction against abortion?

 

[The Big Dog]

Human life must be respected and protected absolutely from the moment of conception. From the first moment of his existence, a human being must be recognized as having the rights of a person - among which is the inviolable right of every innocent being to life.72

Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you.73

My frame was not hidden from you, when I was being made in secret, intricately wrought in the depths of the earth.74

2271 Since the first century the Church has affirmed the moral evil of every procured abortion. This teaching has not changed and remains unchangeable. Direct abortion, that is to say, abortion willed either as an end or a means, is gravely contrary to the moral law:

You shall not kill the embryo by abortion and shall not cause the newborn to perish.75

God, the Lord of life, has entrusted to men the noble mission of safeguarding life, and men must carry it out in a manner worthy of themselves. Life must be protected with the utmost care from the moment of conception: abortion and infanticide are abominable crimes.76

cite

 

[Craig B]

Psalm 139:13-16

13
For you created my inmost being;
you knit me together in my mother’s womb.
14
I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made;
your works are wonderful,
I know that full well.
15
My frame was not hidden from you
when I was made in the secret place,
when I was woven together in the depths of the earth.
16
Your eyes saw my unformed body;
all the days ordained for me were written in your book
before one of them came to be.

...

19 If only you, God, would slay the wicked!
Away from me, you who are bloodthirsty!
20 They speak of you with evil intent;
your adversaries misuse your name.
21 Do I not hate those who hate you, Lord,
and abhor those who are in rebellion against you?
22 I have nothing but hatred for them;
I count them my enemies.

 

[theprestige]

So? How is that an injunction against abortion?

Command: Don't kill people unnecessarily.
Axiom: Unborn children are people.
Conclusion: Don't kill unborn children unnecessarily.

 

[acbytesla]

Human life must be respected and protected absolutely from the moment of conception. From the first moment of his existence, a human being must be recognized as having the rights of a person - among which is the inviolable right of every innocent being to life.72

Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you.73

My frame was not hidden from you, when I was being made in secret, intricately wrought in the depths of the earth.74

2271 Since the first century the Church has affirmed the moral evil of every procured abortion. This teaching has not changed and remains unchangeable. Direct abortion, that is to say, abortion willed either as an end or a means, is gravely contrary to the moral law:

You shall not kill the embryo by abortion and shall not cause the newborn to perish.75

God, the Lord of life, has entrusted to men the noble mission of safeguarding life, and men must carry it out in a manner worthy of themselves. Life must be protected with the utmost care from the moment of conception: abortion and infanticide are abominable crimes.76

cite

Oh, I get the Catholic Church has opposed abortion. It simply does not have a scriptural justification.

 

[acbytesla]

Command: Don't kill people unnecessarily.
Axiom: Unborn children are people.
Conclusion: Don't kill unborn children unnecessarily.

The commandment says Thou shall not murder. How is it necessary to stone an unruly child? How is it necessary to kill all of your neighbors?

 

[theprestige]

Oh, I get the Catholic Church has opposed abortion. It simply does not have a scriptural justification.

Based on what? Your lay interpretation of one translation of one passage?

Do you suspect that perhaps the Catholic Church, in its condemnation of abortion, has given a scriptural justification for it?

Do you wonder if perhaps you should be familiar with that justification, and have ready a good rebuttal, before you dare to claim so confidently that no such justification exists?