Why Stop Sylvia Brown?

[Big Les]

She can't be stopped, nor will she, no matter what. It's an exercise in futility.

"I think one of the most important reasons to stop Sylvia Browne is to show the general public how easily they can be scammed. It will hopefully make someone think twice before paying extortionate amounts of money to someone who's nothing more than a carnival sideshow."

Do you really think that the general public could be shown that? Stuff like this has been going on for centuries, there is nothing that will change the thinking of those prone to believe in this crap, today or tomorrow. It will always be there.

Think of "stop" as the meme, the gimmick if you like. It's the traditional idealistic goal of activism - that you can somehow take down your opponent entirely. As you point out, this has never happened. However, activism HAS made significant differences in society over the years.

The efforts being made by RSL and others are about education, not actually hampering her ability to operate. Preventing even one person from falling for her BS makes the time and effort made by them worthwhile. And he's achieved that in spades.

Of course RSL won't bring psychics down, nor even Browne herself (sorry RSL). I don't think that's his goal. In the grand scheme of things it helps spread an awareness of fraudulent psychic types, and of scepticism in general. Protesting a just cause can never be futile IMO, and RSL has the evidence to show what he's doing is far from futile. You know what? Even if it were futile - so what? It would still be right to try.

To paraphrase MC5 - at least he's flipping trying. What the flip have you done?

 

[elaine]

I am new here, and found my way to your site from the Stop Sylvia Brown campaign. I'm really glad I found you, thanks for having me.

So here's my question: Why do we need to stop Sylvia Brown?

Isn't it enough that she is an embarrassment to herself? I mean no one really believes her nonsense do they? Do we really need to stop someone that is so obviously mentally ill that they have lost touch with what could be considred believable? If we stop her, Montel Williams might gain some of his credibility back. Isn't it more fun to watch him decend into the abiss as a complete joke? What if she is stopped? Then who will we have to go after? Bad question, someone will assuradly pop up from somewhere, but you have to admit; she's pretty fun to go after. Can't we just feel pitty for our lovely Ms. Brown? After all we feel pitty for the homeless person muttering nonsense on the street corner, is she so different?

Thanks for letting me post.

tapman.

Welcome, tapman!

I just skimmed the previous posts, so I apologize if this was covered.

By educating the public on people such as Sylvia and their methods, the knowledge can be carried over to assess the legitimacy of other "psychics". And yes, they all do harm. Please see the following blog series written by JREF member Kelly Jolkowski regarding her, and others, experiences with psychics in finding missing persons.

http://voice4themissing.blogspot.com/2006/03/30606-pmp-introduction-to-psychics-and.html

 

[Agular]

To paraphrase MC5 - at least he's flipping trying. What the flip have you done?

I have no idea who or what MC5 is, but to answer the question pertaining to THIS subject, why would I "flipping" do anything that I think is a waste of time? I believe that opinion of mine was made clear, so the question is essentially irrelevant, with all due "flipping" respect to MC5 though.

I think both sides have been heard and whoever wants the last word on my opinion can have it. And don't forget the righteous indignation because I criticized who some of you consider a favorite son.

 

[Big Les]

Yes, fair enough, I was feeling righteously indignant when I tacked that bit on the end there. It did give you a good excuse not to bother addressing the meat of my post, so I regret that much.

 

[luchog]

It wasn't suggested that one "snigger from the sidelines." If you think that you are making a significant difference, nothing will change your mind. The next time Larry King idiotically has her on, there will be more converts to her scam in one hour than all those you have saved. Like I said, "an exercise in futility."

Just become something may be ultimately futile, that doesn't make it any less worth doing. And the fact that the website has actually had a noticible effect proves that it has already completely failed to be as futile as you seem to believe.

Sure, the number of those who have ceased to believe in her may currently be very small compared to her loyal audience, but they have ceased to believe; and all movements start with a few people. SB didn't just suddenly wake up one morning with an audience of thousands of believers.

 

[Macoy]

I have no idea who or what MC5 is, but to answer the question pertaining to THIS subject, why would I "flipping" do anything that I think is a waste of time? I believe that opinion of mine was made clear, so the question is essentially irrelevant, with all due "flipping" respect to MC5 though.

I think both sides have been heard and whoever wants the last word on my opinion can have it. And don't forget the righteous indignation because I criticized who some of you consider a favorite son.

I think the above quote is a waste of time.

 

[dustbunny]

Just become something may be ultimately futile, that doesn't make it any less worth doing. And the fact that the website has actually had a noticible effect proves that it has already completely failed to be as futile as you seem to believe.

Sure, the number of those who have ceased to believe in her may currently be very small compared to her loyal audience, but they have ceased to believe; and all movements start with a few people. SB didn't just suddenly wake up one morning with an audience of thousands of believers.

I personally think the number of disbelievers is bigger than we think. It took SB years to expand her group of loyal fans. James Randi has fought against people like her for years and now Robert Lancaster has dedicated a website solely to stop SB. I'm hoping he will be the match that lights the fuse. I genuinely believe she is scared, after all the dreadful mistakes she's made (on camera and radio, etc, for thousands of people to see and hear) SB knows that it's catching up with her.

The media could help so much if they would at least have a more balanced approach to psychics and sceptics. They'd boost their own ratings a lot more if they were fairer in what they air on tv. The few programmes I've seen that show the real side of mediums are far more interesting and educating for the public. The media has been a powerful tool for SB and others but when it's used properly it can throw a devastating blow and help the needy and grieving from adding more pain to their already desperate situations.

 

[RSL's better half]

Short derail:
I would like to apologize for being the catalyst for tiger's rampage. I haven't been on the forum in a couple days and missed quite a bit, but in that time I have reasoned that tiger must be a "young person." This realization makes me feel very badly about challenging him/her in the first place.
As a side note, I did not report tiger to anyone. Not sure I'd know how to.
End derail.

 

[rjh01]

Ignore the above post of RSL better half. Being young is no excuse for bad behaviour. See also my protest thread in forum management.

I can also tell you that it was me who reported The Tiger for what he said in this thread.

Edit. So my apologies to RSL's better half.

 

[geni]

The media could help so much if they would at least have a more balanced approach to psychics and sceptics. They'd boost their own ratings a lot more if they were fairer in what they air on tv. The few programmes I've seen that show the real side of mediums are far more interesting and educating for the public. The media has been a powerful tool for SB and others but when it's used properly it can throw a devastating blow and help the needy and grieving from adding more pain to their already desperate situations.

Two problems. First the media have to build them up before knocking them down and second while knocking them down may provide a few high audience programs SB was able to provide a continious stream of fairly cheap reasonable audience programs.

 

[Sherlock]

In addition to the response by others and EeneyMinnieMoe, there is the concern of using public law enforcement budgets and the time of police personnel. Even if it’s only the time it takes a public officer to record the visions of a psychic and there is no follow-through this is time likely better spent.

Once a full-operation starts, including the time law enforcement agencies must spend answering questions from the media and assigning detective time --- the costs become very real indeed. An Oregon police department reportedly spent more than $90,000 reviewing the concerns of two psychics several years ago with no outcome, and three Virginia police departments over the past 30 years are estimated to have spent a combined $235,000 soliciting psychic help on "cold cases" including rapes, murders and other criminal activities.

For crime psychic detective Noreen Renier whom I follow closely, Renier has publicly stated she receives payment from police directly approximately 70% of the time, and her leading clients on criminal matters are police agencies. She has stated some U.S. states have provided her more than 20 cold cases at a time to work on. Her current web site posted rates per case (for typically 120 minutes of work) is now $1000 per case for police agencies. Even if she discounts "bundled" work, this is a tidy sum indeed.

A reasonable calculation of the time police departments have spent following up and working with Renier on criminal cases and media and public follow-up is likely beyond 6000 man hours. During this time could those hours have been better spent on preventing criminal activity beforehand, or outsourcing more efficient and recommended practices? Based on her extensive track record of exaggerating her claims and creating fabricated events, I would absolutely believe the money is better spent elsewhere. The same by-the-way for the recent Newsweek article on the $10,000 a month business psychic Laura Day. The group that booked Laura day at Seagate Technology may have received extensive publicity in doing so, but they certainly have left me with a far different impression about how that company functions and conducts itself as a business.

I would have the same impression about any police agency who works with psychics. If the people at the top are so incapable of foresight and proper planning that they need to turn to psychics I would presume they are heading downhill fast. Of course in the business world they don't call hire a soothsayer. They don't even book a soothsayer and call her a psychic. They call them a Consulting Intuitionist specializing in forecast analysis. Would you want to work for companies who support such New Age obfuscation? I for one have pulled my financial investments out of companies who clearly are drifting toward the paranormal. I prefer solid financial foundations build upon internal management that already knows where they are headed. And for police departments that means internally function using both traditional investigative methods and using new lab technologies.

 

[dustbunny]

Two problems. First the media have to build them up before knocking them down and second while knocking them down may provide a few high audience programs SB was able to provide a continious stream of fairly cheap reasonable audience programs.

Maybe the more educated people become collectively the more the media will take notice. After all ratings drop when people start realizing that all is not what it seems. Mediumship captivates a lot of people unfortunately and their belief is one of the strongest and hardest to crack. I know I'd like to think there is something beyond who we are now but without evidence I remain sceptical.

I'll keep doing my bit to shake their foundations. A bit of fair and balanced media coverage would go a long way in the bid to stop SB and the rest.

 

[RSL's better half]

Wow, amind, sounds like you've been doing some homework, too!

I'm curious: the law enforcement agencies who pay "mediums," do they have private detectives help them out at all? Do private detectives charge more than psychics do? Maybe there is a void that needs to be filled - and I know one woman who could possibly begin to fill the void - Eeney! She is so good at digging!

What d'ya think, Eeney? Business opportunity, perhaps? Your slogan could be something like: More verifiable results than a psychic! Just a thought.

 

[Hawthorne]

Well, I hope that if I am murdered under mysterious circumstances that they call in someone more like Agent Gibbs on NCIS to solve it rather than some cornflake with a crystal ball.

 

[RSL's better half]

Well, I hope that if I am murdered under mysterious circumstances that they call in someone more like Agent Gibbs on NCIS to solve it rather than some cornflake with a crystal ball.

I want Monk!

 

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

Wow, amind, sounds like you've been doing some homework, too!

I'm curious: the law enforcement agencies who pay "mediums," do they have private detectives help them out at all? Do private detectives charge more than psychics do? Maybe there is a void that needs to be filled - and I know one woman who could possibly begin to fill the void - Eeney! She is so good at digging!

What d'ya think, Eeney? Business opportunity, perhaps? Your slogan could be something like: More verifiable results than a psychic! Just a thought.

Well, I do happen to know a bit about crime and police procedure and a little about missing person's cases from investigating Sylvia Browne's psychic detective claims . I don't know how far having watched alot of Court TV and some research skills will take you, though.

Did I ever tell you that before I chose to major in political science, it was my dream to become a journalist? I did wonder whether I made the right choice to abandon that goal but ultimately, I think that yes, I did.

 

[dustbunny]

I don't want to go off topic but amindformurder's quote has got me curious! Do all the psychics on Psychic Detectives charge for their services. My mum loves this show and was shocked when I told her today about Noreen Renier getting paid for her services.

I genuinely thought they did police work for free. Could someone enlighten me please?

 

[Boo]

When it comes to why there is only one real reason.

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke






Boo

 

[pgwenthold]

Well, I used to think that the reason she should be stopped was noble, including things like the fact that defrauds people, etc, etc

Nowadays, I am more inclined to go with the way of Boo: she's evil. Bloody evil, and needs to be stomped on. As painful as possible.

Think of how the Dukes ended up in Trading Places. That is too good for her (and no way an African prince should get her back on her feet).

Read through the vile on Robert's site, and don't be surprised if you come away feeling horrid contempt for the hag. Fraud and scamming people is only the tip of it. She is an uncaring, evil witch. And not in a "sadly misunderstood, Elphaba wicked witch of the west" sort of way, just a very bad person. She deserves to fry.

 

[RSLancastr]

Do all the psychics on Psychic Detectives charge for their services. [...] I genuinely thought they did police work for free. Could someone enlighten me please?

I've never seen it, sorry. But, if nothing else, they get lots of free publicity to bring customers who DO pay.