Why settlements?

[webfusion]

New owners

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/616294.html

PalTrade, the Palestinian company in charge of running the greenhouses that the Palestinians will inherit from Gaza evacuees, recently signed its first export agreement for the produce slated to be grown there.

The produce will be marketed via the Israeli firm Agrexco, which handles most of Israel's agricultural exports. Palestinian farmers in the Gaza Strip already export under a special brand name that Agrexco launched for this purpose, and this brand will apparently be used for the new venture as well.

Evacuation complete, the Palestinians are about to find themselves with lots of nation-building efforts to undertake.
It is exciting to watch! I wish them well, and think they are going to have success as New Palestine moves forward in positive and constructive directions, such as this.

 

[a_unique_person]

Yossi Alpher's opinion about Gaza in today's Bitterlemons issue covers me completely.

The Legal Status of Gaza- An evolving Issue( An Israeli overview)

One night I saw on BBC World and in "Hart Talk" the Palestinean co-founder of BitterLemons,Ghassan Khatib. I have been reading his articles but I have never seen him talking. I was impressed. This is the least I can say. Men like him are "the real" danger for Israel not the bombs of the lunatics.

I owe peptoabysmal an answer but tonight it's out of the question. Maybe I must return to the office in order to work less.

Yep, I wonder what someone else besides Arafat could have achieved.

 

[Cleopatra]

Yep, I wonder what someone else besides Arafat could have achieved.

Recent History has shown us that in such conflicts that their origin is lost in time personalities have very limited influnce on the events.

It's the people that are fed up with the conflict and they start asking questions and pushing governments to find a permanent solution.

 

[Mycroft]

Originally posted by a_unique_person
What percentage of the actual spanish speaking population do they represent? About 0 is my guess.

In other words, they are not a credible threat.

Which makes the paralel with Zionism stronger.

You like to pretend that guys like Al-Husseini were prescient, reacting properly to future events, but the truth is Zionism never had the numbers to make it work.

They had, at best, a half-million people, and even that was inflated with immigrants fleeing the Holocaust. They were factionalize, with many different visions of what Zionism, the end product, should look like. They were, in reality, doomed to failure. That they had gotten as many people as they had to immigrate is impressive, but most people were not going to uproot their lives and move half-way across the world unless their lives were in danger, and even then they were just as likely to pick other places.

They didn't have enought people to form a nation. What immigrataion and developement they were achieving also had the effect of drawing in more Arabs to take advantage of the improved economy. They were always going to be a minority in the Holy Land. Had they just been left alone, the most they could have achieved is a large Jewish population in a predomonantly Arab nation.

Really it was opposition to Zionism that made it work. Start a few anti-Jewish riots and pograms, and suddenly different Zionist factions are working together. Add a little anti-Jewish ethnic cleansing from the firs Arab/Israeli war, and suddenly you have the population to make your nation work.

Similarly, if people of the United States started persecuting Hispanics, we could create the very situation that would lead to an arganized credible Hispanic successionist movement.

Imagine Arnold Schwarzenegger inciting a race riot, making public speeches saying, "We must terminate the wet-backs. Keep Kalifornia for White People!" Then all of a sudden the racist lunatics at Aztlan don't seem so crazy anymore, and the idea that a new Hispanic nation made up of the South Western United States being needed to protect the safety of the Hispanic population becomes very real.

 

[Beerina]

I was watching "Hard Talk" on BBC World the other day and they had invited Simon Peres. At the end of the interview the evil british journalist asked him how would he feel if it turned out that Ariel Sharon was promoting peace.

You should have seen his face

As a bit of rhetoric, I would have immediately responded "The last time England agreed to territorial demands to a murderous, non-free, non-democratic thug, what happened and what did the world learn? And why will it turn out differently ultimately this time?"

Not that I agree, but the rhetoric was ripe for the plucking. I would have loved to see the "evil" BBC reporter's face. >(

 

[Beerina]

The Mexicans moving to California want what the US offers, that is, more wealth, stability, less corruption, etc. If they wanted Mexico, they would have stayed there.

Exactly. If anything, they'd want to have the US start appending Mexican states just so they can get rid of the omnipresent corruption.

Quite frankly, I want Chihuahua first in line as the 51st star. =)

 

[Skeptic]

From Wikipedia .

So can I start killing Mexicans now?

That depends. If they are jewish Mexicans, they are potential zionists, and therefore fair play. After all, since it's justified to kill zionists, at worst you're making the mistake of thinking ALL Mexican jews are zionists instead of just SOME of them.

 

[Skeptic]

PalTrade, the Palestinian company in charge of running the greenhouses that the Palestinians will inherit from Gaza evacuees, recently signed its first export agreement for the produce slated to be grown there.

The produce will be marketed via the Israeli firm Agrexco, which handles most of Israel's agricultural exports. Palestinian farmers in the Gaza Strip already export under a special brand name that Agrexco launched for this purpose, and this brand will apparently be used for the new venture as well.

If there will ever be peace, which I doubt more and more, it will only be this way.

Alas, I believe the real result of this bone-headed move by Sharon would be a third, and much more lethal, so-called "Intifada" (actually, a terror war of annihilation). Abbas and Hamas are no different strategically: they both want the destruction of israel, and only have minor differences about when and how.

As they say in hebrew, ha'levai ve'etbadeh: I hope to God that I am wrong.

 

[zenith-nadir]

Interestingly enough:

U.S. Jewish Donors Save Gaza Greenhouse - Fri Aug 19, 9:37 AM ET

NEW YORK - It was a tough decision for the Jewish-American philanthropists who routinely write megabuck checks for charity. The cause this time was Palestinian jobs in Gaza, where Jewish settlers were being evicted by their own government.

Despite that, billionaire publisher and real estate magnate Mort Zuckerman donated money and managed to persuade several other well-heeled associates to do the same, all at the behest of the Bush administration.

James D. Wolfensohn, former president of the World Bank and now a White House envoy to the Middle East, reached out to Zuckerman last week for help in finding millions of dollars to assure that Palestinians could continue operating greenhouses that had been built and owned for some three decades by the Israeli settlers in Gaza.

Because Israel does not qualify for assistance from the U.S. Agency for International Development and the Palestinian Authority did not want to do anything that helped the settlers, the money had to come from private sources, and was handled through the Aspen Institute, a public policy advocacy group that has promoted investment in Palestinian interests

 

[webfusion]

zionist bucks go to help the palestinians

Yeah, that was a bit of background which I missed, thanks for calling it to our attention, Z-N.
So, Jewish philanthropists (zionists, let's assume) got together millions of $$$ to buy those greenhouses for the Palestinians!

BTW, I posted the greenhouse/PalTrade item to this thread in error, it probably would have been more appropriate on the "Palestinian State we all want" topic ---- but no matter, the point was clear enough here.

 

[Cleopatra]

Have you all lost it? Jews are by definition evil and blood thirsty. I wonder how you let those articles that are published by Media controlled by the Jewish Cabal to blur your judgement.

 

[webfusion]

clever, so clever

Here is a website that is obviously run by the zionists as a way of tricking everyone into believing there is such a thing as an "Arab World"
http://www.araboo.com/

At Araboo.com, you will find everything you need about Arab, including: Arab resources, Arab news, Arab updates and all kinds of information related to Arab.


Shhhhhhhh, don't tell CapelDodger -- he's over on this other thread trying to convince everyone that there is no such thing as "The Arabs" ---

 

[Mycroft]

It seems like a nice gesture, but it's all part of the conspiracy.

 

[a_unique_person]

Re: clever, so clever

Here is a website that is obviously run by the zionists as a way of tricking everyone into believing there is such a thing as an "Arab World"
http://www.araboo.com/

At Araboo.com, you will find everything you need about Arab, including: Arab resources, Arab news, Arab updates and all kinds of information related to Arab.


Shhhhhhhh, don't tell CapelDodger -- he's over on this other thread trying to convince everyone that there is no such thing as "The Arabs" ---

Just the same as there are Jews. Not all Jews are Zionists, want to live in Israel, religious, orthdox, reformed, living in Israel, agree that as Zionists, Israel is being fair to Palestinians, think Israel is not being hard enough on Palestinians, etc.

 

[Mycroft]

Re: Re: clever, so clever

Just the same as there are Jews. Not all Jews are Zionists, want to live in Israel, religious, orthdox, reformed, living in Israel, agree that as Zionists, Israel is being fair to Palestinians, think Israel is not being hard enough on Palestinians, etc.

What do you think a Zionist is?

 

[a_unique_person]

A person who supports the creation of the State of Israel in Palestine.

 

[Ed]

A person who supports the creation of the State of Israel in Palestine.

So the UN is collectively Zionist?

 

[a_unique_person]

So the UN is collectively Zionist?

If you're a cynic like Cleopatra, you believe they did it so they could finally get rid of the Jews Hitler didn't kill, if you are not so cynical, it was an attempt to remedy the crimes of Hitler.

The UN never actually made the proclamation. IMHO, partly because the proposed borders were never going to work.

 

[Skeptic]

If you're a cynic like Cleopatra, you believe they did it so they could finally get rid of the Jews Hitler didn't kill, if you are not so cynical, it was an attempt to remedy the crimes of Hitler.

The UN never actually made the proclamation. IMHO, partly because the proposed borders were never going to work.

Yet you think israel should end its "occupation" and go back to them. I guess that's why you think israel will "cease to exist as a concept" (wink wink, nudge nudge)

 

[Mycroft]

A person who supports the creation of the State of Israel in Palestine.

That's not a bad definition.

But given that Israel was created almost 60 years ago, calling someone a "Zionist" today is like calling someone a "suffragist".

What's your modern definition?