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Why not war against Islam?

Cleon said:
Yep. Against the existing policy, not against Islam.
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You amuse me.

They are not against the word "Islam" and how it sounds and rolls off the tongue? Is that it?

To me, existing policy IS Islam. How is it not to you? Remove policy and you remove Islam. You are left with something you can call "Islam" but not the same as it was before.
 
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Bill said this: 'For most muslims, being a muslim is not a matter of choice, nor is it possible to leave Islam.'

Parsing the sentence, I take it as claiming that it is not possible for most muslims to leave Islam. Arguable, but not the same as claiming it is impossible to leave Islam.
 
Mister Agenda said:
Bill said this: 'For most muslims, being a muslim is not a matter of choice, nor is it possible to leave Islam.'

Parsing the sentence, I take it as claiming that it is not possible for most muslims to leave Islam. Arguable, but not the same as claiming it is impossible to leave Islam.
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Thanks, man.

OK, I said for most muslims.

I did not say that for all muslims it is impossible to leave islam. DC got it wrong.
 
Bill Thompson said:
You amuse me.

They are not against the word "Islam" and how it sounds and rolls off the tongue? Is that it?

To me, existing policy IS Islam. How is it not to you? Remove policy and you remove Islam.
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So, since American policy is that gay-marriage is illegal in almost every state, it's not possible to be pro-gay-marriage and pro-American? I mean if you remove all of America's laws, in what meaningful sense is it still America?
 
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Bill Thompson said:
You amuse me.
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Aw, it's cute when you think you can be condescending. :D

They are not against the word "Islam" and how it sounds and rolls off the tongue? Is that it?
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No. Try again - this isn't difficult. They are religious Muslims. They believe in Islam.

To me, existing policy IS Islam. How is it not to you? Remove policy and you remove Islam.
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Erm - that makes no sense whatsoever. Islam has no central decision-making body that issues "policy."

The Islamic world includes a wide diversity of views and "policies." Your lack of understanding of this fairly simple fact is the reason for your failure.
 
Bill Thompson said:
From the article you link to:
Quote:
There is growing visibility of gay Muslims in Britain, although not all are confident about coming out

Proves my point.
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bill....i can assure you as a queer man who had to come out twice.....very few people are confident about coming out.
muslim queers are no different from anyone else.
it's scary **** to tell your friends and family that you are queer.
 
Bill Thompson said:
You have been rude, unfair, crass, and personally insulting to me with no just cause.
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If I have, there's a moderator posting right here in this very thread who I fully expect to infract me.

And yet, in order to defend the position you have chosen you naturally expect me to tell you all about where I live and what my work is like.
Pass.
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I'm not defending a position. I'm asking you to defend your position. In post 625 in this thread, you said "Maybe in your world, you consider the christian right as a bigger threat. I am sure it might be. But in my world the story is different."

If when you say "my world" you're not referring to your geographic location in the greater Seattle area, what is your "world" that you're talking about? How is Islam a greater threat to that "world" than the Christian right is?

You still ignore direct quesitons. What does the fact that christianity is bad have to do with the goodness of Islam?
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I've already answered this (in fact, I won a TLA for a post in a thread where I expounded at some length about this topic), but I'm happy to answer it again here.

Islam is just as good as Christianity. Islam is just as bad as Christianity. Islam is just as unique as Christianity. Islam is the same as Christianity. Islam, like Christianity, is large; it contains multitudes. It contradicts itself, it's splintered, it has 1.6 billion followers who agree on very, very little about just what Islam is and just what it means to be a Muslim. Islam, in short, is no different in its inherent violence, in its inherent peacefulness, in its good influence on moderates and bad influence on radicals, its internal rifts and divisions and disagreements and heresies, than any other religion you care to name. Up to and including Christianity.

So, to call out Islam as somehow worse than Christianity in general, or worse in a particularly unique way, is wrong. It's a false argument, an essentially meaningless nonstarter. Any time anyone posts something taking that assertion as a given is committing the begging the question fallacy.

That enough for you, or do you need more?
 
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Going back to the what I said before:

Decades ago, the UN created a Declaration of Universal Human Rights.
The problem is that the writers of this document were naive and did not know that the the articles in the declaration clashed with each other. For example, the freedom of religion clashed with the freedoms of expression and other rights if the religion that was picked was Islam.

If this is not what you want to believe is true, do not blame the messenger for telling you this.

It sucks. I know. But it is true.

I would rather be miserable than blind.

I think you would rather be blind than miserable.

You see, this is the main point I made and Antipogo ignored this and went directly to a bit I added onto it about 9-11. There were some inaccuracies there, but this does not disprove my main point. Antipongo does not want to believe my main point. Somehow that is something she does not want to think about. So she finds minutia she can disprove.

Yet, that does not prove anything.
 
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ANTPogo said:
So, to call out Islam as somehow worse than Christianity in general, or worse in a particularly unique way, is wrong. It's a false argument, an essentially meaningless nonstarter. Any time anyone posts something taking that assertion as a given is committing the begging the question fallacy.

That enough for you, or do you need more?
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How about this. Did I ever say that Christainity was better than Islam?!

It is annoying when someone assumes lies about you again and again and again and again.

It was you who brought up topics that christianity was bad.

I never brought up topics that christianity was good.

You assume I have said things I have not so many times that it is almost as if you live in your own world.
 
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Bill Thompson said:
Going back to the what I said before:

Decades ago, the UN created a Declaration of Universal Human Rights.
The problem is that the writers of this document were naive and did not know that the the articles in the declaration clashed with each other. For example, the freedom of religion clashed with the freedoms of expression and other rights if the religion that was picked was Islam.

If this is not what you want to believe is true, do not blame the messenger for telling you this.

It sucks. I know. But it is true.

I would rather be miserable than blind.

I think you would rather be blind than miserable.

You see, this is the main point I made and Antipogo ignored this and went directly to a bit I added onto it about 9-11. There were some inaccuracies there, but this does not disprove my main point. Antipongo does not want to believe my main point. Somehow that is something she does not want to think about. So she finds minutia she can disprove.

Yet, that does not prove anything.
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all Abrahamic religions and most Nations are in conflict of article one of the UN Human Rights Declaration.

why do you single out Islam?
 
Bill Thompson said:
Going back to the what I said before:

Decades ago, the UN created a Declaration of Universal Human Rights.
The problem is that the writers of this document were naive and did not know that the the articles in the declaration clashed with each other. For example, the freedom of religion clashed with the freedoms of expression and other rights if the religion that was picked was Islam.

If this is not what you want to believe is true, do not blame the messenger for telling you this.

It sucks. I know. But it is true.

I would rather be miserable than blind.

I think you would rather be blind than miserable.

You see, this is the main point I made and Antipogo ignored this and went directly to a bit I added onto it about 9-11. There were some inaccuracies there, but this does not disprove my main point. Antipongo does not want to believe my main point. Somehow that is something she does not want to think about. So she finds minutia she can disprove.

Yet, that does not prove anything.
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Bill Thompson said:
How about this. I never SAID THAT CHRISTIANITY WAS SOMEHOW BETTER THAN ISLAM !!!

It is annoying when someone assumes lies about you again and again and again and again. And you have to constantly tell them they are wrong again and again and again and again.
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Really? When the UN created the Declaration of Universal Human Rights, does the freedom of religion clash with the freedoms of expression and other rights if the religion that was picked was Christianity?

If not, why not? How does Christianity differ from Islam for the purposes of your statement?

I'm ignoring, for the moment, the fact that there are a number of Muslims who disagree with your statement even as it was originally formulated.
 
ANTPogo said:
I'm not defending a position. I'm asking you to defend your position. In post 625 in this thread, you said "Maybe in your world, you consider the christian right as a bigger threat. I am sure it might be. But in my world the story is different."

If when you say "my world" you're not referring to your geographic location in the greater Seattle area, what is your "world" that you're talking about?
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No, world does not mean city.
 
ANTPogo said:
Really? When the UN created the Declaration of Universal Human Rights, does the freedom of religion clash with the freedoms of expression and other rights if the religion that was picked was Christianity?
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Why are you doing it again?

I just explained why doing that was wrong.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7477187&postcount=711

Seriously, why are you doing it again?

You doing this kind of goes against your post saying you were not about the badness of Christianity. But you seem to be. Did I mention Christianity in the post about the UN?
 
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Bill Thompson said:
No, world does not mean city.
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Then what does it mean?

Bill Thompson said:
You doing this kind of goes against your post saying you were not about the badness of Christianity. But you seem to be. Did I mention Christianity in the post about the UN?
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No, you didn't. And I'm wondering why not, and instead specifically singled out Islam.

Now are you going to answer my two questions, or aren't you?
 
DC said:
all Abrahamic religions and most Nations are in conflict of article one of the UN Human Rights Declaration.

why do you single out Islam?
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because that is the topic of this discussion thread. that is how online forums work.
 
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