Why is there so much crackpot physics?

[Dancing David]

As far as we know the wheel itself dates was from about 3500 B.C. The Neolithic (New Stone) Revolution occurred about 10,000 years ago and dramatically changed the way that early humans lived is the conventional answer to the' rise of civilization question as it is currently tought David. Please refrain from these type of simple types questions, thanks.

Why because the overturning of conventional thought was that agriculture predated the creation of the megaliths?

And that you said something else?

You would need to cut out the megalithic rock from the stone quarry it came out of shape it to a flat surface all with other rock, move the rock from miles away weighing 12 metric tons and positioning them them into megalith rings 11 thousand years ago. You would need Pulleys and other tech no?

No, no pulleys needed at all, just rollers and ropes.

So if this was completed 11000 years ago when did it start? 35000 years ago with this tech David?

Given the nature of these things probably within 200 years of the completion.

The technolghy did not exise to do this david.

yes it did, what is a roller?
What is a rope?

As an example David, advanced technical skills - Sometime around 3000 BC, the Neolithic peoples around these river valleys learned how to make and use bronze tools and weapons. This in part allowed these peoples to construct permanent shelters and homes since they no longer were nomads, following their food source and looking for caves as shelter.

You don't need bronze tools to make a roller or a rope.

And again, I don't think you even read the article.

The way Schmidt sees it, Gobekli Tepe's sloping, rocky ground is a stonecutter's dream. Even without metal chisels or hammers, prehistoric masons wielding flint tools could have chipped away at softer limestone outcrops, shaping them into pillars on the spot before carrying them a few hundred yards to the summit and lifting them upright.

Read more: http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history-archaeology/gobekli-tepe.html#ixzz1q8SURUmZ

 

[GeeMack]

The technolghy did not exise to do this david.

That is an argument from incredulity and/or an argument from ignorance.

As an example David, advanced technical skills - Sometime around 3000 BC, the Neolithic peoples around these river valleys learned how to make and use bronze tools and weapons. This in part allowed these peoples to construct permanent shelters and homes since they no longer were nomads, following their food source and looking for caves as shelter.

If you're just saying you don't understand how such structures could be built, fine. You've made that abundantly clear and you don't need to keep saying it.

If you're trying to suggest there's some particular alternative explanation which works better than the one we have now, the one that says humans constructed these ancient sites with materials and technology available to them at the time, then to advance the discussion, get to the point.

 

[Dancing David]

I have stated that it (now also stated like with coral castle as well), was made with an alternate tech. It's clear, as there is no other rational explantion at all.

What alternate tech is needed, a stone tool can cut down a tree and trim a roller, you can make ropes without stone tools at all.

You assert your conclusion.

 

[Complexity]

So how and where do you get this background from, and where do you get the money from to fund the education?

What would you recommend?

Education doesn't have to cost very much except for time.

Schooling often costs a great deal.

Sometimes they coincide a bit, but often not.

Nearly everything I've learned I've learned on my own through reading, thinking, and working on problems.

I've had many years of undergrad and grad school, but the most important things that I learned during those years were on my own. Sometimes the topics may have been inspired by reading down for school, but most times not.

An education is a life-long adventure.

If you want an education, start today.

Decide what what you want to learn, be honest about where you stand with the prerequisite skills to begin that study, and start learning the prerequisites.

 

[catsmate]

I have stated that it (now also stated like with coral castle as well), was made with an alternate tech. It's clear, as there is no other rational explantion at all.

Rubbish. You have yet to provide a scintilla of evidence this "alternate tech" of your exists, yet alone that it was used.

 

[Complexity]

I have stated that it (now also stated like with coral castle as well), was made with an alternate tech. It's clear, as there is no other rational explantion at all.

Ah, so you're one of those who believes that, "If I can't understand how it can be done, then it can't be done."

Nonsense.

Quit projecting your inadequacies.

You have demonstrated no knowledge, understanding, or insight.

 

[catsmate]

With all due respect you are clearly the ignorant one.

All I said per my initial post when I was dragged into this, is that sciences failure to explain the creation of what can be clearly seen would open the door to crackpot psysics to explain it. Indeed in this case it has. There ae dozens of other examples as well. Good day!

Apart from your ad hominem fallacies and arguments from ignorance, you are also the one invoking "crackpot psysics" [sic] in the form of your "alternate tech".

 

[catsmate]

No, no pulleys needed at all, just rollers and ropes.

I keep pointing him to the simple machines.

You don't need bronze tools to make a roller or a rope.
And again, I don't think you even read the article.
Read more: http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history-archaeology/gobekli-tepe.html#ixzz1q8SURUmZ

This and other articles on the subject specifically mention the large number of flint tools and remnants found there. Tedlazer also repeatedly exaggerates the distance the blocks were moved.

 

[Dancing David]

LOL, U R askng what I have asked this forum as a entire whole. My answer is clearly OF COURSE, if I has access to the the tech used!!!

Maybe those who have interest should move on from this site alone (this thread alone) and start to research Coral Castle made in the 1900's by only one weak person. I warned not only in this branch of science, but in many BTW, scientists lacking of answers to questions and logical explainations stemming from what can be seen and proven, would give rise and profit to those promoting 'crackpot psysics'. These examples are but a few proofs of this.

http://web.archive.org/web/20080119...s.com/anti_gravity/Coral_Castle/photos_3.html

Crack pot alternatives, like block and tackle?

Which were not used in the neolithic?

 

[Perpetual Student]

Sad that it's allowed to use wiki a source here. Fine you have reversed you stance on using the 'known tech' for the creation of the site (or just to continue ignoring it) congrads! Don't forget after the now 'missing link tools' are found in order to prove your 'theory' you still need to account for the quarring the rock from miles away weighing 12 metric tons and positioning them them into megalith rings 11 thousand years ago.. Good luck

BTW scientists do not conur with you. They are VERY clear that there was no metal tools creted 11000 years ago. Clearly you are not ready for the coral
Castle Discourse. If I find someone above a certain level of at least common sense here I agree to use spell check when addressing them. I'm a poor speller. Too many Dr.'s in the family i guess. LOL

Further I have not stated EVER here any "mysterious and woo", alien or gods ever here. I have made fun of the notion though. I said clearly that the cration of the site does not upend physics either.

My argument was (yet again) to the TS that scientists failure to explain the creation of what can be seen clear as day would open the door to 'crackpot physics' to provide an explanation. The best answer in the thread. There is money on it.

After a couple of dozen posts, I still have no idea what point(s) you are attempting to make. Science makes new discoveries or a regular basis; sometimes those discoveries overturn some prior perspective. I have witnessed several of these events in my lifetime. That's what science does! There is no relevance to crackpot physics, crackpot archaeology, or crackpot science of any kind involved. What has been the purpose of your posts here? Are you suggesting that archaeologists are crackpots because they didn't anticipate this new archaeology, or because they do not have instantaneous answers? What is your point -- other than creating mysterious crackpot conjectures about this site?

 

[TjW]

As far as we know the wheel itself dates was from about 3500 B.C. The Neolithic (New Stone) Revolution occurred about 10,000 years ago and dramatically changed the way that early humans lived is the conventional answer to the' rise of civilization question as it is currently tought David. Please refrain from these type of simple types questions, thanks.

You would need to cut out the megalithic rock from the stone quarry it came out of shape it to a flat surface all with other rock, move the rock from miles away weighing 12 metric tons and positioning them them into megalith rings 11 thousand years ago. You would need Pulleys and other tech no?

So if this was completed 11000 years ago when did it start? 35000 years ago with this tech David?

The technolghy did not exise to do this david. As an example David, advanced technical skills - Sometime around 3000 BC, the Neolithic peoples around these river valleys learned how to make and use bronze tools and weapons. This in part allowed these peoples to construct permanent shelters and homes since they no longer were nomads, following their food source and looking for caves as shelter.

Did you not view the Wally Wallington video? He's moving huge blocks of stone all by himself, without using rollers, pulleys, or huge crews of ultra-strong "cavemen". As far as technology, he is using rope, rocks and wooden tools that could be built by lashing parts together. All stuff available to any society that had gotten as far as, say, wooden handles on stone tools.

 

[AlBell]

@tedlazer

What do you suggest Coral Castle brings to the discussion, it being erected with poles, scaffolding, and blocks and tackles, over many years.

 

[dafydd]

I have stated that it (now also stated like with coral castle as well), was made with an alternate tech. It's clear, as there is no other rational explantion at all.

What alternate technology? There is a rational explanation, but you refuse to accept it.

 

[Farsight]

This is worth a read: crackpots who were right. Of course there's a lot more crackpots who were wrong, make no mistake about that. But there's definitely resistance from vested interest in science. There always has been, and always will be. They will call somebody a crackpot if they pose some kind of threat. I thought this an interesting snippet by the way:

"I also wanted write a bit about Robert Chambers who wrote a popular book about evolution before Darwin. He was ridiculed by biologists for his misuse of terminology but the public were won over and he paved the way for acceptance of Darwin’s theory while much of the scientific establishment held on to creationism".

I've just read up on Robert Chambers on wikipedia. Very interesting. Even my number one hero Newton was big on creationism, so IMHO it just goes to show that intelligence is no protection from groupthink.

 

[GeeMack]

After a couple of dozen posts, I still have no idea what point(s) you are attempting to make. Science makes new discoveries or a regular basis; sometimes those discoveries overturn some prior perspective. I have witnessed several of these events in my lifetime. That's what science does! There is no relevance to crackpot physics, crackpot archaeology, or crackpot science of any kind involved. What has been the purpose of your posts here? Are you suggesting that archaeologists are crackpots because they didn't anticipate this new archaeology, or because they do not have instantaneous answers? What is your point -- other than creating mysterious crackpot conjectures about this site?

It could be that we're being set up for the well worn ancient aliens bit. Maybe a foundation is being laid for some magical powers, psi, or psychokinesis conjecture. Or it might be a disgruntled believer in all things woo just taking a couple of shots at the mean old skeptics. Whatever it is, I'm not betting any productive contribution will come from it.

 

[Perpetual Student]

This is worth a read: crackpots who were right. Of course there's a lot more crackpots who were wrong, make no mistake about that.

By a ratio of perhaps tens of thousands to one.

But there's definitely resistance from vested interest in science. There always has been, and always will be. They will call somebody a crackpot if they pose some kind of threat. I thought this an interesting snippet by the way:

"I also wanted write a bit about Robert Chambers who wrote a popular book about evolution before Darwin. He was ridiculed by biologists for his misuse of terminology but the public were won over and he paved the way for acceptance of Darwin’s theory while much of the scientific establishment held on to creationism".

I've just read up on Robert Chambers on wikipedia. Very interesting. Even my number one hero Newton was big on creationism, so IMHO it just goes to show that intelligence is no protection from groupthink.

Again, you seem to be oblivious to the difference between crackpots who persist in advocating conjectures that blatantly violate experimentally verified science versus scientists who speculate in areas where no existing science can support of refute their claims. Alfred Wegener is another good example of the latter while EU groupies are a classic example of the former.

 

[abaddon]

In fairness when conventional science can not explain things that can be observed with ones own eyes such as the creation of ancient megalithic Structures all over the world, many of which contain stones weighing hundreds of tons, people are compelled to 'think out of the box".

Therefore, the door is open to these crackpots to try to explain what real scientists can not.

I'm sure if i gave you the ACTUAL answer as to the question of how they were made, you'd call me a crackpot too though LOL (not that I have one)

Plain flat out wrong.

 

[BravesFan]

I had never seen that before! The ingenuity of people is what is the amazing technology IMO. It never ceases to amaze me how if you take a man who is good at his job and present him with a challenge how often he will find an elegant and effective solution.!!

Kudos to Wally!

 

[abaddon]

maybe you want to watch Wally Wallington


And he isn't even using rollers.

Dammit, beaten to it again.

 

[dlorde]

I have stated that it (now also stated like with coral castle as well), was made with an alternate tech. It's clear, as there is no other rational explantion at all.

Check out Wally Wallington's site for some amateur ideas and demonstrations of the tech required for moving, lifting, and positioning large stones and other objects. This is just one man's off-the-cuff ingenuity.

The people who made these structures were just as clever as we are today, and had hundreds of years of experience working without fancy tech. Don't underestimate our ancestors.

ETA: D'oh! too slow... Oh well, the point is made