Why is PETA so bloody dam stupid....

[Belz...]

Plants are plants, Belz. They don't have a consciousness, they don't feel pain, they don't have preferences and chosen life plans, they lack every single quality that animal rights activists think separates morally important things like normal adult humans and normal adult pigs from early-term fetuses, brain-dead people, road kill and algae.

Pigs don't have chosen life plans, either, Kevin. As far as we know very few animals do, if any. The inconsistency is that you jump from "pain" to "happiness" to "life plans". Your criteria are not consistent because you keep wiggling them around.

That's the reason why you can't make a coherent, joined-up argument for your position.

I don't have a position aside from asking you to justify yours.

 

[Kevin_Lowe]

Pigs don't have chosen life plans, either, Kevin. As far as we know very few animals do, if any. The inconsistency is that you jump from "pain" to "happiness" to "life plans". Your criteria are not consistent because you keep wiggling them around.

You do seem obsessed with turning your own misunderstandings into "inconsistencies", without turning your brain on for a minute to two to try to figure out how "inconsistencies" might not only be common sense, but also be completely consistent with how vegetarians actually behave.

Pigs don't have life plans, discursive thought, moral awareness and so on (that we know of) which is why animal rights activists think that they are less morally important than a human, all else being equal. Vegetarians value animal life too highly to end it just for bacon, but they value it less than human life.

However pigs can feel pain, and almost certainly happiness and depression, which is why they are more important than plants.

Plants can't do any of the above, so vegetarians are happy to kill and eat as many as they please.

It's a hierarchy of moral value, in one sense. Humans on top, pigs and dolphins and chimps a little lower down, and so on. Whether plants and invertebrates count for a tiny amount or not at all varies with the individual thinker as far as I can tell - there's no clear consensus that I'm aware of.

 

[Belz...]

You do seem obsessed with turning your own misunderstandings into "inconsistencies"

And you seem to be obsessed with trying to understand my psyche. Don't bother.

without turning your brain on for a minute to two to try to figure out how "inconsistencies" might not only be common sense

You're the only one still arguing for them here. Maybe they're not so common.

Pigs don't have life plans, discursive thought, moral awareness and so on (that we know of) which is why animal rights activists think that they are less morally important than a human, all else being equal.

I was under the impression that those same activists saw human life as, at most, as important as a pigs, which is why they don't seem to frown at the idea of bombing other people to make their point, sometimes.

Vegetarians value animal life too highly to end it just for bacon, but they value it less than human life.

Gotcha.

It's a hierarchy of moral value, in one sense.

So you CAN farm and eat ants, then ?

 

[Kevin_Lowe]

I was under the impression that those same activists saw human life as, at most, as important as a pigs, which is why they don't seem to frown at the idea of bombing other people to make their point, sometimes.

Arguably the ALF feel that way, assuming they have a coherent philosophy, but even they target people they see as responsible for the death or suffering of a lot of animals. I haven't heard of them blowing someone up over one pig.

Nobody else I'm aware of claims to act on any such beliefs. I'm damn sure nobody in this thread has espoused them.

So you CAN farm and eat ants, then ?

Vegetarians would avoid such fare if vegies were available, obviously, but I think they'd consider it much less of a moral problem than pigs and cows. Personally since killing large numbers of insects is necessary to raise plant crops anyway I can't see any consistent position where eating vegies is okay and eating bugs isn't.

 

[Belz...]

Nobody else I'm aware of claims to act on any such beliefs. I'm damn sure nobody in this thread has espoused them.

Not that I can tell.

Vegetarians would avoid such fare if vegies were available, obviously, but I think they'd consider it much less of a moral problem than pigs and cows. Personally since killing large numbers of insects is necessary to raise plant crops anyway I can't see any consistent position where eating vegies is okay and eating bugs isn't.

Well, that makes a whole lot more sense, now.

Of course, I still disagree that there is a moral issue in eating, say, pork, but at least your position is clearer.

 

[ZirconBlue]

So, why is PETA so bloody dam [sic] stupid, anyway?