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Why is homosexuality wrong?

JetLeg said:
No, he can choose to reveal himself, but he doesn't have to.
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Oh really? Not according to the bible.

If the bible is your instruction manual on the attributes of god, you can compare what it says to reality quite readily.

A few choice quotes:

Mark 11:24, Jesus says, "Whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours,"

Matthew 17:20, Jesus says, "For truly, I say to you, if you have faith as a grain of mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there,' and it will move; and nothing will be impossible to you."

In Matthew 21:21 Jesus says: "I tell you the truth, if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and it will be done. If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer."

John 14:12-14 Jesus says: "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in me will also do the works that I do; and greater works than these will he do, because I go to the Father. Whatever you ask in my name, I will do it, that the Father may be glorified in the Son; if you ask anything in my name, I will do it."
In James 5:15-16 Jesus says: "And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise him up. If he has sinned, he will be forgiven. Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective. "

Mark 9:23 "All things are possible to him who believes. "

Luke 1:37 "For with God nothing will be impossible."

Matthew 18:19 Jesus says: "Again I say to you, if two of you agree on earth about anything they ask, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven. For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I in the midst of them."

These seem to be pretty darn clear to me and so far, completely false.
 
scotth said:

Matthew 17:20, Jesus says, "For truly, I say to you, if you have faith as a grain of mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there,' and it will move; and nothing will be impossible to you."
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It is far more sensible to think of this as a metaphor.
 
JetLeg said:
It is far more sensible to think of this as a metaphor.
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What on earth could possibly make you think that? (Other than it is obviously not true)

Please indicate in the surrounding verses (of any of my quotes) ANYTHING that indicates they are to be taken in any other way than literally.
 
JetLeg said:
A sane person would not say it and mean it. Quite easy to disprove...
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I say to you, you cannot be a Christian and not believe those. They are emphatically endorsed in pulpits across the nation, every single Sunday. These are core doctrinal beliefs.

Sorry, try again.
 
scotth said:
These are core doctrinal beliefs.
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Depends on the interpretation. If that means "Faith can acomplish lots of things and cause big changes in the world", that is true. If one tries to move mountains using faith, that is stupid. The first interpretation is sensible.
 
JetLeg said:
What about the treatments that they say - work?
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You mean, like the people who started up the ex-gay ministry Exodus International?

wikipedia said:
In 1979, Exodus International's co-founder Michael Bussee and his partner Gary Cooper quit the group and held a life commitment ceremony together. In the span of eighteen years, eight of the Exodus International ministries have dissolved because the director realized they were still gay. On June 27, 2007 Bussee, along with fellow former Exodus leaders Jeremy Marks and Darlene Bogle, issued a public apology for their roles in Exodus.
Source
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JetLeg said:
First, it is a good reason. Second, I wrote above that it is so blatantly untrue, that the only motivation for saying this would be crazyness.
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The bible as a whole is blatantly not true. Pretty surprising for a document that was written/inspired by the very creator of the universe.

I just chose those quotes because they spoke directly to your line of argument. I could continue to shred the bible indefinitely.

Now, if you are Christian, it should be pretty hard to deny that the bible is the source of information about the nature of god, the universe, and nature of the relationship between you and god. At every corner it is filled with (today fortunate ignored for the most part) barbarity and nonsense. Most suspiciously is the fact that in all the pages of the bible there seems to be not a single morsel of information about the nature/history of the universe that was not known to bronze age men.
 
Do you agree that the specific quote is not a reasonable one to be taken in a literal way?
 
JetLeg said:
Do you agree that the specific quote is not a reasonable one to be taken in a literal way?
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NO! Emphatically no.

And even if I gave you one of the quotes as a gimme, what of the others.

Judging by the contents of the surrounding text, it is quite clearly meant to be taken literally. This is true of all of those quotes. Just because it is obviously false doesn't automatically mean the author intended it to be metaphor. And millions upon millions of Christians agree with my understanding.

I understand that many liberal Christians would disagree. I also understand that liberal Christians have taken it upon themselves to ignore giants swaths of the bible. I have yet to see a biblically justified reason. It is always a case of:
1) Ignoring stuff that is blatantly false, or
2) Ignoring stuff that obviously morally repugnant.
Please show me in the Bible where the reader is given license to pick and choose.

Which raise 2 more questions, why is a book authored/inspired by god full of utter falsehood and morally repugnant material?

ETA: And doesn't it give you pause that I am beating you silly by quoting your own book to you?

ETA2: I also point out my sig for close examination.
 
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It requires magical thinking. Plenty of people engage in magical thinking, and not just in religious matters.

I used to believe all those quoted verses (and more) were literal truth.
 
JetLeg said:
Hm... LOL
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This is an extremely significant example of the thoughtful and carefully considered responses made by the likes of you and XenonII to the criticisms of your positions.

Is it any wonder we're getting snarky and at times angry? In the face of such willful reluctance to consider facts and research, rationalists and skeptics feel very justified in rejecting religion and heaping scorn upon it.
 
JetLeg said:
Well, the religious community could not just make it up.
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Excuse me, but the "religious community" in question would have us believe that 2000 years ago a guy could walk on water, raise the dead, and make food multiply.

The entire "religious community" is built on lies, myths, fairy tales, and stories it pulled out of their collective rectal orifice.

JetLeg said:
What reasons can it have???? In order to say that it is a myth, you need to explain what reasons must the religious community have to invent it.
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Bigotry. Plain and simple bigotry.
 
This shows that you know very little about the history of the bible.

JetLeg said:
Well, the religious community could not just make it up.

What reasons can it have???? In order to say that it is a myth, you need to explain what reasons must the religious community have to invent it.
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The larger portion of what is currently taught within the religious community is not based on words that Jesus actually spoke. The KJV of the bible for example consists of writings of men, and less then 2% is actually quotes of what Jesus said.

In John 13:31 Shortly before he is arrested, on the night before he was killed, Jesus tells his disciples a new commandment, "Love one another as I have loved you.".

If your defending what is currently taught in the religious community, then why is this overlooked? It says nothing about passing judgment on one another.
 
Well, the religious community could not just make it up.
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Of course it could, don't be ridiculous. The religious community made up that the Earth is flat, that the Sun orbits it, that Mary ascended to Heaven like Jesus upon her death, that evolution is wrong, and that all atheist countries are horrific dictatorships like the USSR, and countless other things. They make up things for a living. Why not this?

What reasons can it have???? In order to say that it is a myth, you need to explain what reasons must the religious community have to invent it.
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It's a lot easier to get someone to persecute someone for a choice, rather than for being what they are without being able to help it.

Having said that, I'm sure a lot of religious people do not say homosexuality is a choice to deliberately mislead. Most, I'd wager, actually believe it, like they believe that atheism condemns a country to communism or that evolution is a failed theory.
 
Safe-Keeper said:
It's a lot easier to get someone to persecute someone for a choice, rather than for being what they are without being able to help it.

Having said that, I'm sure a lot of religious people do not say homosexuality is a choice to deliberately mislead. Most, I'd wager, actually believe it, like they believe that atheism condemns a country to communism or that evolution is a failed theory.
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Huh? I agree, but why should religious community wish to persecute gays? What motivation might they have?
 
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