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Why is homosexuality wrong?

In My Spare Time said:
Fair enough. I figured I'd give him a chance to talk to a real life homosexual and see if it changes his perceptions any. I'm sure you're not shocked to learn that he has not contacted me.

Oh well, this abomination has to keep doing overtime at his marketing job in order to save up money to buy a house, later I'll watch the football game with my alumni club, participate in a team sport and go out with a straight male friend and watch the MMA event tonight at a sports bar.

So you can see that I'm leading a life of constant perversion and fashion design just like all the scary gays.
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Yeah, but we all know that's just secret gay code:D
 
You caught me
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Ack, lay off XenonII. He may be a troll, in fact it seems more and more likely that he is with the way he brings up bigotry on demand (not starting to come across as racist until I mention blacks, for instance), but without him this thread would've died long ago. And we're having fun, aren't we?

Homosexuality is a demonic spirit that exists in perverted people who like to have sex with the same sex.
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I thought you said it was a mental illness? Do you know what 'mental illness' means? Define it to me, please.

Jesus wasn't a liberal he was a conseravtive. He never said "and we will make it so those who work hard will reap no reward and those who are lazy must only reproduce and they may collect welfare".
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No, He didn't. He did, however, say lots of other things more than sufficient enough to label him a liberal.

A liberal is totally in favor of killing babies moments before they are born.
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Neither Jesus, nor God, nor the Bible ever said a single word about terminating pregnancies. And what many do not realize (and far less care to think about, as it's not really relevant to anyone else than those using the Bible to push the pro-life position) is that abortion happened during Jesus' time. The earliest record of the practice comes from China and is thousands of years old. Like the condom, abortion is ancient. It's not some new invention by modern liberals. Yes Jesus was strangely quiet on both. Funny that.

A liberal wants acceptance and favortism for men who live in sexual perversion with other men and women who live in sexual perversion with other women.
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If it's 'equality' when gays can only marry people of the opposite gender - like the straight, then how is it 'special treatment' when it's the other way around and gays and straights can marry those of the same gender? Let's set it up in list form:
  • Straight people can marry outside their gender.
  • Gay people can marry outside their gender.
  • Gay people can marry inside their gender.
  • Straight people can marry inside their gender.
Where does the discrimination, favoritism, and special treatment come in again?

No it is not true. Do people oppose pedophilia because they are actually closet pedophiles themselves or do they oppose it because it is harmful and immoral?
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I can actually list quite a few people who have fought pedophilia out of a feeling of guilt for their own attraction to children, not to mention sexual abuse of them.

What about murderers and terrorists? Do people oppose them because they are closet murderers or terrorists or because what these people do is evil?
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No, they don't, because sexuality and murder and terrorism are different things.

You choose your sexual behavior, which is what defines whether you are normal or a homosexual [...] It amazes me liberals can't differentiate between freely chosen sexual behavior and traits you are born with such as eye and hair color. Eye and hair color are genetic, homosexuality isn't. Homosexuality is a choice.
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Homosexuality is the sexual attraction to others of the same gender. Yes, it can be suppressed by pretending to be attracted to the other gender, just like you can suppress your natural hair and eye colour by dying your hair and wearing contact lenses. But that doesn't make it a choice, does it?

Sure, it's my choice to express that my eye colour is blue and my hair colour is blonde. And I can turn myself into a black-haired guy if I want to, all it takes is a wig or some dye. Just like a homosexual can give the appareance of being straight. But it was never my choice that those particular genes were the ones to form me.

I hate what God hates as we are commanded to do.
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And that's our problem. You hate because you're ordered to, not because of actual logical reasons, or even illogical reasons. It's like a blood feud in which the children, from birth, are trained to hate the children of the other family, and end up doing so simply because they've been taught to. Why do I hate the Capulets? I have to as a good Montague.

Liberals have already radically redefined marriage in several key areas to weaken it and demean it [...]
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Proof that is why we did it? Even if the innovations you list below (such as no-fault divorce, criminalizing rape, etc.) are bad ideas, how do you know we're not just mis-guided? I, for once, know I support all those because they're rational in my eyes.

Homosexuality is against the word of God (he calls it an abomination) and while not all homosexuals may be posessed by demons it would be fair to say a large number of them are. But there is not one single contributing factor for the homosexual disorientation, demonic posession may be the cause in one individual, while seduction by a predatory homosexual may be the cause in another for example.
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This in response to my statement that you couldn't just throw the 'it's obvious!' card around and expect people to take you at face value.

Xenon, we're not going to be convinced by your statistics and statements until you back them up with reliable sources. And yes, we can be convinced. At least I can. I started to actually question homosexual sex when I learned that it was not good for the anus.

It doesn't matter if homosexuality is genetic or a choice because homosexuality would be wrong either way.
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I know, it's wrong because your god says so and you have to be a Good Christian and follow the Word of your Lord. Look, I don't want to invoke Godwin here, but... uhm:boggled:...

Alcoholism may be genetic, but that doesn't excuse people being alcoholics. The individual still has the free choice whether to drink or not, just as the same-sex attracted individual has a choice whether to sodomize a member of the same sex or not.
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The problem with alcoholism is it has these nasty things called 'addictions', 'withdrawal symptoms', to mention but two. You make it sound like the alcoholic could just snap his fingers and decide 'OK, no more', but oh no, he's such an evil little godless sinner that he chooses to keep drinking just to be mean to God and his fellow man.

How many narcotics and alcoholics have you ever talked (and I mean talked to, not encountered while they were under the influence) to or had as friends? I've never understood fundies who brand narcotic addiction and alcoholism as 'immoral'. Truly. I swear it.

There is no such thing as true morality.
There is and God has spelled it out in the Bible.
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Which one? You posted a screenshot of the King James Version, which seems to be a favorite of US fundies for some reason, but how do you know that's the right one? Oh, and if your 1611 version is the right one, were everyone misguided until 1611? Were everyone but the people writing King James' version acting on their own and not guided by God? If so, why did He wait until 1611?

With what moral basis do you determine this True Morality of yours?
 
I'd like to address the "wife's body not her own" argument. If that's true, then what you're saying is when the husband forces the wife to have sex against her will, then he is using her property (his body) to rape his property (her body).

Shouldn't the wife have some say over how he uses her property?

ETA: Let me spell this out for you. His penis is no longer his. It belongs to the wife. Likewise, following the logic of Saint Who-The-[rule10]-Ever, her vagina is actually his now. By forcing his wife to have sex, he is reclaiming his body and yet maintaining his claim over his wife's body.

So by your logic, the man is not a rapist but a thief. He is also a liar, because in his marriage vows, he promised before God to love and honor his wife. Is theft a way of loving and honoring her? No.

So he has also adulterated his marriage vows.

To do all of this, he had to have coveted his wife's property. His wife tried to exercise control over her property by refusing to have sex with him, but he coveted that control she had over his body and seized it back.

So by your logic, he is a thief, an adulterer, and full of coveteousness. And since the act that adulterated the marriage vows was a sex act, it is fornication.

So the wife is well within her rights to divest herself of his body, reclaim her own body in repayment, and kick the [rule10] to the curb with as large a divorce settlement as she can wrangle from his punk [rule10].

Now THAT'S the Bible for you.
 
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I really did not know it worked the other way around. But yes, if the man can rule the woman, then the woman can rule the man - and decide he can't rape her. Whoops.

ETA: Not that it matters, because anyone apparently can interpret the Bible in any way they want.
 
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XenonII said:
The keyword here is LOOKS. Jesus was incapable of sinning. The only person who has never sinned and a perfect human being.
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That concept didn't seem to make much sense to Jessie... I mean, Jesus:



After reading your posts Xenon, and assuming that these are your actual beliefs, I have come to one conclusion:

You're scum, and the lowest variety to boot. If you were just a troll, I could write you off as some immature geek getting his giggles out by sounding like a theocratic creep. However, given that you seem adamant to continue your particular line of bull, I'll take you at your stinking word.

You're racist, sexist, anti-gay, anti-semetic, anti-freedom--and don't try to dance around the issue with semantic word games, you sniveling dirtbag! Your a bigot no matter what lame excuses you gin up! You're every reason I evolved from a Right-wing Christian to an apolitical atheist made manifest; the willful ignorance, the rejection of objective facts, the outright lies, and the blind hatred and misrepresentation of everything that doesn't fit into your festering world view. Homosexuals are abominations? Interracial marriage is "immoral?" Husbands can force sex on their wives? Your very existance makes me ill.

If anything, your contributions here have only strengthened my belief that all religion--especially the filthy, barbaric, faith called "Christianity"--needs to be combated and chucked onto the proverbial ash heap of history along with all other totalitarian lies our species has concocted throughout the ages to justify their desire to hate and enslave their fellow humans. The day your kind are shoved back into the holes you slithered out from is the day we can truly call ourselves "free." I will do whatever I can to help defeat your kind once and for all.
 
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It's worth bringing up that 74 out of XenonII's 75 posts are in this thread. He looks more and more like a troll to me.
 
I also love how Xenon drags the non sequitur of "liberalism" into his rants.

Let's see:
  • I'm an atheist, and I think the First Amendment is pretty clear that church and state needs to be 100% seperate.
  • I support gay rights (e.g. marriage, adoption, service in the armed forces, life, liberty, happiness, property, etc.)
  • I believe woman have an absolute right to an abortion at any stage of her pregnancy.
  • I believe that women should be allowed to do whatever they want, whether it's wear pants, serve in the armed forces in a combat role, or be president of the United States or a Fortune 500 company.
  • I believe sex is not sinful (in fact, there is no such thing as "sin"), does not have to be solely for procreation (if at all), and doesn't require monogamy or marriage to be acceptable.
  • I believe that inter-racial relationships are a non-issue.
Of course, all this means I'm a "liberal" in Xenon's paranoid little dreamworld. He isn't willing to dig deeper and find out what I believe about any other issue. For instance:
  • Just as I want government out of the bedrooms, I tend to prefer markets over government intervention in economic matters. (I'm by no means an absolutist, but I have little patience for socialism in both theory and practice.)
  • I support an individual's right to keep and bear firearms.
  • I think that nuclear energy is a viable, greenhouse-emmision-free power source that needs to be considered and put to widespread use.
  • While affirmative action may have had it's uses, we should be looking at ways to phase it out as society's racial attitudes improve.
Now, I have been branded a "conservative" (along with some other nasty names) by actual leftists for these and other opinions, regardless of my civil libertarianism. Yet I haven't voted for a conservative/Republican candidate since Bob Dole ran in 96 and unless the GOP drop kicks the Bible-humpers out the party, I will not do so again. Go figure.

However, to Xenon, I'll probably remain a filthy, anti-American, communist-and-terrorist-sympathizing, "liberal" no matter how much I support capitalism, handgun ownership, ending racial quotas, and fast breeder fission plants. All that matters to him is whether my life revolves around some Bronze Age fairy tales and whether I think the primitive and barbarous morals contained therein should be foisted upon others.

Disagreements notwithstanding, I think I'll take my chances with the "liberals."
 
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America was founded by white Christian conservative males, the one group the liberal hates with a vengeance. They did an incredible job, as led by the hand of God in giving us the greatest country on earth.
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No, no, no, Christian-favoring history falsification is DOC and plumjam's field. Stick with homophobia and racism.
 
boloboffin said:
This is my new favorite thing.
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Season two has just started up, and the first episode is utterly subversive, completely blasphemous, and funny as hell!

George W. Bush: "I mean are you using your omni-scientist-ness?"

Mr. Deity: "George, I told you, I don't keep my omniscience turned on, OK. I used it that one time we were in Vegas 'cause we needed some quick cash..."
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Priceless!
 
Xenon, I have two fairly simple questions, which I think you could answer with relatively simple answers if you were inclined to answer responsively and to the point.

1. Why do you think a person would choose homosexuality? You keep claiming it's a choice. So why choose homo? I've known some homosexuals. Even now that they can be open about it, their lives have been complicated, stressful, and in various ways limited. Even in a place like Vermont, where homosexuality is legal and is gradually losing its stigma, it's not the default position, and requires an explanatory label in a way that being hetero doesn't. We heteros never have to explain ourselves, do we? I do know a couple of homosexuals who tried very hard to choose the hetero "lifestyle" for various, and I would think obvious, social, religious and political reasons, against their inclination, but I really have never once encountered a person who chose homosexuality. It's an idea that I, as a heterosexual, find foolish, misguided and would find laugable if it weren't so malignant in its consequences. So, reiterating the basic questiion: What is it that you think is so attractive or beguiling about homosexuality that you believe a person who might as easily choose and enjoy heterosexuality would choose instead a life almost certain to be burdened by inconvenience, discrimination, and the open bigotry of persons like yourself?


2. Was Martin Luther King a Christian?
 
bruto said:
1. Why do you think a person would choose homosexuality? You keep claiming it's a choice. So why choose homo?
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Well, given what he's written in previous posts, it's a "mental illness" caused by queer-mo-sexual demons. Of course mental illness isn't a choice. Nor is demonic possession a choice--or, at least it wouldn't be if there were such a thing as demons.


bruto said:
2. Was Martin Luther King a Christian?
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Do we really want to hear what he has to say about that? I mean, I just ate.
 
This is my new favorite thing.
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Loved the episode on natural disasters ('The Evil').

Actually, bruto, #1 has already been answered by our new favorite fundie/troll:
  1. He believes at least some of them are possessed by demons. This despite a total lack of empirical evidence proving the existence of the demon species, which is currently about as real in my eyes as the black-eyed alien, the troll, or the Loch Ness monster.
  2. He believes that they suffer from a mental illness, and use as an argument an obsolete stance that has long since been discarded.
  3. My guess is that he is also going to say something like 'oh, they're just evil that way, like all criminals. Do you know why people murder?'. Which is not a valid argument at all, but I can see it looming ahead.
:covereyes
 
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Safe-Keeper said:
Loved the episode on natural disasters ('The Evil').

Actually, bruto, #1 has already been answered by our new favorite fundie/troll:
  1. He believes at least some of them are possessed by demons. This despite a total lack of empirical evidence proving the existence of the demon species, which is currently about as real in my eyes as the black-eyed alien, the troll, or the Loch Ness monster.
  2. He believes that they suffer from a mental illness, and use as an argument an obsolete stance that has long since been discarded.
  3. My guess is that he is also going to say something like 'oh, they're just evil that way, like all criminals. Do you know why people murder?'. Which is not a valid argument at all, but I can see it looming ahead.
:covereyes
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Maybe he reads Chick Tracts?

http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0273/0273_01.asp

Demons and homosexuals: http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/1052/1052_01.asp
 
bruto said:
So, reiterating the basic questiion: What is it that you think is so attractive or beguiling about homosexuality that you believe a person who might as easily choose and enjoy heterosexuality would choose instead a life almost certain to be burdened by inconvenience, discrimination, and the open bigotry of persons like yourself?
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The average homosexual sexual life is much more promiscuous than the heterosexual one.
 
I don't know of an actualy study that would study it (why should one study this? ), but I think that this is well-known.

Some homosexual, lesbians whom I know, testify this of themselves and of their community.
 
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