Why I will vote against Bush - BJU

[CBL4]

I have voted for Democrats, Republican and Libertarians for president. If you want my vote, join the ACLU and register as a Republican.

There was one specific day that convinced me never to vote for George Bush.

Let me set the scene:
It is February 2000. John McCain just kicked Bush’s butt in the New Hampshire primary. The next day, George Bush goes to Bob Jones University (BJU) to kick off his South Carolina campaign. For those of you who are unfamiliar with BJU, it was probably the most notoriously, bigoted university in the country. In 2000, it had a ban on interracial dating and in 1978 the chancellor called the Pope an “archpriest of Satan” and the anti-Christ. In a 1983 decision, the Supreme Court removed its tax exempt status due to it racist policies. You can imagine BHU's attitude to homosexuals and atheists.

This did not stop Bush from speaking their. It did not stop Bush from saying to the BJU students ''I look forward to publicly defending our conservative philosophy.'' (My emphasis.) He praised the Christianity and the conservatism of BJU and its students. He did not mention the intolerance of the university, its founder or its chancellor.

This clearly told me that Bush will pander to bigots to get votes. His claim to be a “compassionate conservative” appeared to me to be a fraud. BJU represents the extreme of the disgusting side of the GOP. Bush decided to be associated with them. I decided to never be associated with him.

BTW, I think Bush’s bigotry is limited to atheists and homosexuals not blacks or Catholics. The appearance of bigotry was just an election ploy.

CBL

 

[crimresearch]

Well, you are halfway there then...all you have to do is become disgusted by sell outs like 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell', and afraid of paramilitary initiatives like the Police Corps, and you won't be able to vote for either side.

 

[gnome]

Well, you are halfway there then...all you have to do is become disgusted by sell outs like 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell', and afraid of paramilitary initiatives like the Police Corps, and you won't be able to vote for either side.

Tell me about the Police Corps? This one's new to me.

 

[Luke T.]

I wonder if John Kerry avoided protests that were populated with Marxists...

Oh, wait. That would mean he didn't attend any protests.

 

[jj]

I wonder if John Kerry avoided protests that were populated with Marxists...

Oh, wait. That would mean he didn't attend any protests.

I wonder if Bush managed to avoid ruling a state with no Marxists. No, wait, that means he didn't rule over any state.

 

[Luke T.]

I wonder if Bush managed to avoid ruling a state with no Marxists. No, wait, that means he didn't rule over any state.

Exactly.

 

[SRW]

I have voted for Democrats, Republican and Libertarians for president. If you want my vote, join the ACLU and register as a Republican.

There was one specific day that convinced me never to vote for George Bush.

Let me set the scene:
It is February 2000. John McCain just kicked Bush’s butt in the New Hampshire primary. The next day, George Bush goes to Bob Jones University (BJU) to kick off his South Carolina campaign. For those of you who are unfamiliar with BJU, it was probably the most notoriously, bigoted university in the country. In 2000, it had a ban on interracial dating and in 1978 the chancellor called the Pope an “archpriest of Satan” and the anti-Christ. In a 1983 decision, the Supreme Court removed its tax exempt status due to it racist policies. You can imagine BHU's attitude to homosexuals and atheists.

This did not stop Bush from speaking their. It did not stop Bush from saying to the BJU students ''I look forward to publicly defending our conservative philosophy.'' (My emphasis.) He praised the Christianity and the conservatism of BJU and its students. He did not mention the intolerance of the university, its founder or its chancellor.

This clearly told me that Bush will pander to bigots to get votes. His claim to be a “compassionate conservative” appeared to me to be a fraud. BJU represents the extreme of the disgusting side of the GOP. Bush decided to be associated with them. I decided to never be associated with him.

BTW, I think Bush’s bigotry is limited to atheists and homosexuals not blacks or Catholics. The appearance of bigotry was just an election ploy.

CBL

Just out of curiosity did you base your opinion on the entire speech, or on an unbiased report from CBS? Not that they would ever do anything to make bush look bad.

 

[gnome]

I wonder if John Kerry avoided protests that were populated with Marxists...

Oh, wait. That would mean he didn't attend any protests.

Ok that's a bit of a false comparison, really.

If Kerry had gone to a marxist clubhouse to make a speech, you'd have a point--you're telling me you really think that was not a case of Bush pandering to bigots?

 

[crimresearch]

Tell me about the Police Corps? This one's new to me.

Sorry, I had typed out a reply, and the computer ate it...

The Police Corps was created by Bobby Kennedy's aide and protege, Adam Walinsky to install an ROTC like elite paramilitary group of police cadets, who would sign a contract to work for a given agency upon graduation from college, in exchange for tuition reimbursement.

It was touted by Janet Reno and the Clinton administration as a 'Very Good Thing'...

In addition to college coursework, the cadets would be given urban combat (OOTW) training from a former Navy SEAL on such things as slitting enemy throats from behind, sleep deprivation, and other special warfare tactics.

Even the law enforcement types weren't too happy with its aggressive framework, which went directly against the prevalent Community Oriented Policing model.

But it had champions in Democratic politics and academia...I couldn't figure out why such liberal types thought this was a good idea, until it was explained to me that the cadets would be loyal to the President, not to the Constitution, or the courts, or to the community they were stationed in...

 

[merphie]

Sorry, I had typed out a reply, and the computer ate it...

The Police Corps was created by Bobby Kennedy's aide and protege, Adam Walinsky to install an ROTC like elite paramilitary group of police cadets, who would sign a contract to work for a given agency upon graduation from college, in exchange for tuition reimbursement.

It was touted by Janet Reno and the Clinton administration as a 'Very Good Thing'...

In addition to college coursework, the cadets would be given urban combat (OOTW) training from a former Navy SEAL on such things as slitting enemy throats from behind, sleep deprivation, and other special warfare tactics.

Even the law enforcement types weren't too happy with its aggressive framework, which went directly against the prevalent Community Oriented Policing model.

But it had champions in Democratic politics and academia...I couldn't figure out why such liberal types thought this was a good idea, until it was explained to me that the cadets would be loyal to the President, not to the Constitution, or the courts, or to the community they were stationed in...

Do you have a link? I am interested in reading.

 

[CBL4]

Just out of curiosity did you base your opinion on the entire speech, or on an unbiased report from CBS?

There are three reasons for a candidate to go to a group that is one of the most strident supporters of a view:
1) To say they are wrong. - e.g. Clinton and Sister Soulja.
2) To say they are right.
3) To pander to them and their supporters.

Even Bush's spinners never made the claim that he went to BJU to condemn their bigotry. I gave him the benefit of the doubt and said he is a panderer to bigots. What do you think?

Having spent 30 years in the south, I have seen too much racism - covert and overt. BJU at least is honest in its racism while the southern GOP is generally covert. It is very difficult to tell the GOP panderers from the genuine racists. There are some people like David Duke but Bush is much more typical. I assume they are just panderers and vote against them every time.

CBL

 

[CBL4]

Well, you are halfway there then...all you have to do is become disgusted by sell outs like 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell', and afraid of paramilitary initiatives like the Police Corps, and you won't be able to vote for either side.

We all have things that disgusts us. For me bigotry and abusing civil rights top the list. I disagree with much of the Democrats agenda. I dislike the overly liberal Democrats (e.g. Ted Kennedy) but I despise the overly conservative Republicans (e.g. Jesse Helms.)

As far as the programs you brought up, I dislike "Don't ask, don't tell" but it was an improvement over the previous policy. I am hopeful that in a decade, we will get to a non-bigoted military. Clinton made a small step in the right direction.

I am unfamiliar with the "police corps." The idea of well educated police is appealling. I could not find any thing supporting your description of them. I search for "police corp" and criticism or OOTW or "urban combat." Nothing appeared. If they were a group that actually slit peoples throat from behind, I am fairly sure I would have heard of it. The only similar thing I could find was the "military police corp" which is an unrelated defence department group. I do not know whether I am missing information or you are confusing the two groups.

CBL

 

[SRW]

There are three reasons for a candidate to go to a group that is one of the most strident supporters of a view:
1) To say they are wrong. - e.g. Clinton and Sister Soulja.
2) To say they are right.
3) To pander to them and their supporters.

Even Bush's spinners never made the claim that he went to BJU to condemn their bigotry. I gave him the benefit of the doubt and said he is a panderer to bigots. What do you think?

CBL

4) He made an honest mistake.

He went to BJU and delivered his standard stump speech. When McCain called him on it he apologized for not taking the opportunity to comment on their policy.

If Bush were to go to a liberal college to speak would you then say he was pandering to liberals?

When someone talks about covert racism I pretty much have to say that they are being prejudice. I have recently switch from being a democrat to independent because I am sick and tired of being call a raciest, sexist, and homophobe simply because I am a white male. (I work at a college and went to diversity training).

Using the logic that Bush is pandering to bigots by going to that school it paints the picture that everyone who attends that school as a bigot also. Which in my option is small minded PC BS.

 

[CBL4]

4) He made an honest mistake.

If Bush had spoken at an unknown Christian university this would be a logical explanation. The reality is that BJU was notorious for its racism (e.g. the Supreme Court case). It is nonsensical to believe that his campaign leaders or Cheney were unaware of this. Somebody decided that BJU was the place to go. He could have gone to Anderson College or Erskine College or Charleston Southern College but he did not.

I suppose that is conceivable that Bush was ignorant of BJU's reputation. He could have been sent to BJU by his pandering campaign staff without anyone mentioning the bigotry. I find this extremely unlikely and not much better of an explanation for Bush - ignorant with a duplicitous staff which does not explain important issues to him.

He went to BJU and delivered his standard stump speech. When McCain called him on it he apologized for not taking the opportunity to comment on their policy.

After winning the South Carolina primary, Bush tried to regain the support of non-racists elsewhere by apologizing for his pandering to racists in SC. BTW, the fact that his standard stump speech was loved by a racist university is telling.

If Bush were to go to a liberal college to speak would you then say he was pandering to liberals?

BJU was not a "conservative" university it was a notoriously bigoted university. I would not have minded him speaking at Liberty University which was founded by Falwell (well not nearly as much.) It has the reputation for being extremely conservative and Christian but not bigotedt. There is a big difference.

When someone talks about covert racism I pretty much have to say that they are being prejudice.

Have you ever been to a small town in the south? I had the unpleasant experience of going to a sawmill in a small town in Georgia to install some automation equipment. In front of the blacks (not his word), he was polite. In private, the racism of the manager of the mill was appalling. At the local Waffle House, if a black happened to be wearing a suit, they were lucky to ever get food.

I do not like blacks (or liberals) who scream racism, sexism or homophobe at every perceived slight but that does not mean it is not alive and well.

Using the logic that Bush is pandering to bigots by going to that school it paints the picture that everyone who attends that school as a bigot also. Which in my option is small minded PC BS.

I realized that blacks and non-racist whites attend BJU. I imagine that they find the conservative, Christianity more important than the stench of racism. However, many (not all) of these probably share the anti-gay and anti-atheists bigotry of BJU.

CBL

 

[SRW]

Have you ever been to a small town in the south? I had the unpleasant experience of going to a sawmill in a small town in Georgia to install some automation equipment. In front of the blacks (not his word), he was polite. In private, the racism of the manager of the mill was appalling. At the local Waffle House, if a black happened to be wearing a suit, they were lucky to ever get food.

I have lived in many southern towns, and truth be told I found racism in them, but less than what I found in Washington, CT, and Oregon, and even here in the peoples republic of Santa Cruz.

I do not paint those places as raciest bigoted simply because I have found racism and bigotry there.

I suppose that is conceivable that Bush was ignorant of BJU's reputation. He could have been sent to BJU by his pandering campaign staff without anyone mentioning the bigotry. I find this extremely unlikely and not much better of an explanation for Bush - ignorant with a duplicitous staff which does not explain important issues to him.

Yes let us assume the worst because he is a white republican and from Texas. Tell me how that is not stereotyping, and or bigoted.

 

[hgc]

...
But it had champions in Democratic politics and academia...I couldn't figure out why such liberal types thought this was a good idea, until it was explained to me that the cadets would be loyal to the President, not to the Constitution, or the courts, or to the community they were stationed in...

Explained to you my whom? Anything to back up this assertion?

 

[gnome]

Sorry, I had typed out a reply, and the computer ate it...

The Police Corps was created by Bobby Kennedy's aide and protege, Adam Walinsky to install an ROTC like elite paramilitary group of police cadets, who would sign a contract to work for a given agency upon graduation from college, in exchange for tuition reimbursement.

It was touted by Janet Reno and the Clinton administration as a 'Very Good Thing'...

In addition to college coursework, the cadets would be given urban combat (OOTW) training from a former Navy SEAL on such things as slitting enemy throats from behind, sleep deprivation, and other special warfare tactics.

Even the law enforcement types weren't too happy with its aggressive framework, which went directly against the prevalent Community Oriented Policing model.

But it had champions in Democratic politics and academia...I couldn't figure out why such liberal types thought this was a good idea, until it was explained to me that the cadets would be loyal to the President, not to the Constitution, or the courts, or to the community they were stationed in...

Can you find some more links on this... if it is as you describe, it does trouble me... but I'm startled I've never heard of it. What colleges had this? Was the "Police Corps" the ROTC-type deal itself, or the agency they joined afterwards? Can I find an official charter of this organization somewhere ? Or even some quotes from Clinton and Reno praising it...

I remember Clinton instituted a servce corps called AmeriCorps. Is that the same thing?

 

[crimresearch]

OK, I hate to hijack this thread into bashing the Police Corps, but the fact that some of us haven't heard of it pretty much tells me that is not something to be gotten from the glass teats.

>You might want to read up on the militarization of policing, or abuses related to the privatization of policing...Diop Kamau would be a good place to start.

>Operations Other than Warfare is code for using US military troops to go door to door inside American cities under a 'hypothetical' martial law situation.

>Lew Hicks is the 'inventor' of SAFTA, the 'Pump up and Kick Ass' fighting system that is an integral part of the Police Corps training off campus...the front of his videos feature Lew himself eliminating a sentry from behind.

As a use of force expert, I had the fortune/misfortune to be involved with the Police Corps from its inception in the mid-90s to its failure at a major (and notoriously liberal) university criminal justice program, where I shared an office with Hicks, and attended the planning meetings with Walinsky, members of Congress, high ranking law enforcement officials from around the country, and many, many academicians.

As mentioned I was surprised that the liberals thought this stuff was absolutely wonderful *as long as it was controlled by an entity outside of the criminal justice system*, like the President.

It was perceived as a a layer of Ubercops, who would be *good* cops, because they would understand the political agenda in a way that ordinary 'dumb' cops never could...an elite officer corps, with the 'Right Stuff', and loyal to progressive causes, instead of Neanderthal nonsense like law and order.

It crashed and burned in many states, but I see it is being revived at the behest of Bobby Kennedy's daughter, the Lt. Governor of Maryland.
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Here is a link to an article that glosses over some of the worst problems...I was personally involved in some of the situations mentioned.

http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a39904c5124e4.htm

 

[fishbob]

I get this: No such file (give_legacy_article) ; when I click your link.

edit to add Never mind, on the third try, I got something.

 

[CBL4]

Originally posted by SRW
Yes let us assume the worst because he is a white republican and from Texas. Tell me how that is not stereotyping, and or bigoted.

Unless you disagree with my characterization of BJU being among the most notoriously, bigoted university in the country I cannot come up with a good spin. He spoke there and no one was fired because of it.

The possibilities that I see are:
1) Ignorant and incompetent with an ignorant and incompetant staff. (Incompent because no one bothered to look for any information about BJU before going there.)
2) Ignorant with a staff that knowingly panders to racists and misleads him about why he is speaking there. (Since there were no firings, Bush would have to be content with a pandering and misleading staff once he found about BJU.)
3) Panderer to racist.
4) Racist
Am I missing something?

Personally, I think calling him an opportunist politician who will pander to racists to win an election as the best I can think of. What is your prefered option?

CBL