Why I Could Conceivably Become a Theist

[Trent Wray]

If a Diety existed and put in a personal appearance from time to time I'd be forced to believe in a God or Gods but if the Diety in question was the Diety caled jehovah I'd have to skip the worship part. I might kill a cow or sheep and burn it up for him but it wouldn't be because I worshipped him it would be to keeep him off my back.

Good point.

And I now understand even more that Xtianity is the Mafia and the churches are the bosses to whom tribute is paid, and that Jehovah is the Godfather. I'm going to start calling him the Holy Don.

 

[Mister Agenda]

I think someone who claims they will cheerfully burn for eternity rather than submit to God if he turned out to be real should see how long they can hold their hand in a fire to prove a point. I know what burning feels like. I have reason to know that I do not care much for even simulated torture (I was in the military for a bit, in a position for which they thought I should be prepared to deal with it). Hell is not Mister Agenda's natural habitat. He would not do well there.

I believe you could measure the time it would take just about anyone to start wishing they had shown less integrity in seconds should they find themselves in a fiery hell.

Christianity created the worst fate they could imagine for disbelievers. If it was real, there's nothing you wouldn't do to escape it, and they didn't write in an escape clause.

The best thing about hell is that it isn't real. Given the hypothetical that it is real, I don't want to go there if all it takes is holy ass-kissing to avoid it. I believe I could go to hell voluntarily to save someone else, I just know that I would regret having done so after a relatively short time of shrieking in agony from the torture.

It's easy to talk big about something you don't believe in. I used to believe in hell, gave it some thought, it doesn't impress me when someone expresses how happy they would be to go there rather than make nice with the Big Guy. People drown their rescuers, they'd trade places with their mothers in heaven if they were in enough pain long enough and it was an option.

Frankly, the moral hideousness of this kind of hell has gotten a lot of Christians to start downplaying it as 'separation from God' or somesuch. It's evil, it's designed to make you afraid, but it's so bad that hardly anyone really thinks about it, even believers. You just can't dwell on it too much without going bonkers, I think. It winds up being so bad it's ineffective at getting even Christians to behave according to their own standards.

 

[Twiler]

I think someone who claims they will cheerfully burn for eternity rather than submit to God if he turned out to be real should see how long they can hold their hand in a fire to prove a point. I know what burning feels like. I have reason to know that I do not care much for even simulated torture (I was in the military for a bit, in a position for which they thought I should be prepared to deal with it). Hell is not Mister Agenda's natural habitat. He would not do well there.

I believe you could measure the time it would take just about anyone to start wishing they had shown less integrity in seconds should they find themselves in a fiery hell.

Christianity created the worst fate they could imagine for disbelievers. If it was real, there's nothing you wouldn't do to escape it, and they didn't write in an escape clause.

The best thing about hell is that it isn't real. Given the hypothetical that it is real, I don't want to go there if all it takes is holy ass-kissing to avoid it. I believe I could go to hell voluntarily to save someone else, I just know that I would regret having done so after a relatively short time of shrieking in agony from the torture.

It's easy to talk big about something you don't believe in. I used to believe in hell, gave it some thought, it doesn't impress me when someone expresses how happy they would be to go there rather than make nice with the Big Guy. People drown their rescuers, they'd trade places with their mothers in heaven if they were in enough pain long enough and it was an option.

Frankly, the moral hideousness of this kind of hell has gotten a lot of Christians to start downplaying it as 'separation from God' or somesuch. It's evil, it's designed to make you afraid, but it's so bad that hardly anyone really thinks about it, even believers. You just can't dwell on it too much without going bonkers, I think. It winds up being so bad it's ineffective at getting even Christians to behave according to their own standards.

You're probably right. I can't imagine the terror of those who truly belive in hell.

 

[Trent Wray]

I think someone who claims they will cheerfully burn for eternity rather than submit to God if he turned out to be real should see how long they can hold their hand in a fire to prove a point. I know what burning feels like. I have reason to know that I do not care much for even simulated torture (I was in the military for a bit, in a position for which they thought I should be prepared to deal with it). Hell is not Mister Agenda's natural habitat. He would not do well there.

I believe you could measure the time it would take just about anyone to start wishing they had shown less integrity in seconds should they find themselves in a fiery hell.

Christianity created the worst fate they could imagine for disbelievers. If it was real, there's nothing you wouldn't do to escape it, and they didn't write in an escape clause.

The best thing about hell is that it isn't real. Given the hypothetical that it is real, I don't want to go there if all it takes is holy ass-kissing to avoid it. I believe I could go to hell voluntarily to save someone else, I just know that I would regret having done so after a relatively short time of shrieking in agony from the torture.

It's easy to talk big about something you don't believe in. I used to believe in hell, gave it some thought, it doesn't impress me when someone expresses how happy they would be to go there rather than make nice with the Big Guy. People drown their rescuers, they'd trade places with their mothers in heaven if they were in enough pain long enough and it was an option.

Frankly, the moral hideousness of this kind of hell has gotten a lot of Christians to start downplaying it as 'separation from God' or somesuch. It's evil, it's designed to make you afraid, but it's so bad that hardly anyone really thinks about it, even believers. You just can't dwell on it too much without going bonkers, I think. It winds up being so bad it's ineffective at getting even Christians to behave according to their own standards.

You know I was just thinking about this exact thing late last night before going to sleep. This is all hypothetical of course, but for a long time now, I've said that I would burn in hell alongside loved ones if I had to choose. I don't think I would defy god when facing hell for just myself, but I used to think I would defy god "eternally" if it involved others.

But I'm not sure I could do that facing an eternity. I would, and have, suffered for the sake of others for years at a time. But I knew that "nothing would last forever," and there was always that slim chance of a way out around the corner (which did eventually come). With an eternal hell facing me, I'm not sure how long I would last LOL. If I actually had a choice to suffer alongside another in an eternal hell, I think that might be the point where I call it quits. But I'm not sure anymore.

ETA: And on that note, again hypothetically, considering the concept of Jesus sacrificing himself for my sin, going to hell for 3 days, etc and so forth .... most Xtians I think always claim how "beautiful what he did was," or how much he loved us, and that shows how much he loved us .... and so the martyr complex can be praised and cherished.

But what if Jesus was really saying, "kids, don't try this at home," since the idea of a person being willing to suffer eternally in defiance or for someone else is basically cowpoo? Perhaps Jesus was trying to give an example of what NOT to do

Sorry if I was incoherent in this post

 

[Mark6]

You're probably right. I can't imagine the terror of those who truly belive in hell.

Disagree. I spoke to some Christian who were utterly certain about literal reality of hell, and could go quite at length about specifics of torture. They were not the least bit terrified because they were just as utterly certain THEY were going to heaven.

BTW, the only place I met such people was in US military, and frankly this scares me. Of course, they were a small minority even there.

 

[Cainkane1]

I think someone who claims they will cheerfully burn for eternity rather than submit to God if he turned out to be real should see how long they can hold their hand in a fire to prove a point. I know what burning feels like. I have reason to know that I do not care much for even simulated torture (I was in the military for a bit, in a position for which they thought I should be prepared to deal with it). Hell is not Mister Agenda's natural habitat. He would not do well there.

I believe you could measure the time it would take just about anyone to start wishing they had shown less integrity in seconds should they find themselves in a fiery hell.

Christianity created the worst fate they could imagine for disbelievers. If it was real, there's nothing you wouldn't do to escape it, and they didn't write in an escape clause.

The best thing about hell is that it isn't real. Given the hypothetical that it is real, I don't want to go there if all it takes is holy ass-kissing to avoid it. I believe I could go to hell voluntarily to save someone else, I just know that I would regret having done so after a relatively short time of shrieking in agony from the torture.

It's easy to talk big about something you don't believe in. I used to believe in hell, gave it some thought, it doesn't impress me when someone expresses how happy they would be to go there rather than make nice with the Big Guy. People drown their rescuers, they'd trade places with their mothers in heaven if they were in enough pain long enough and it was an option.

Frankly, the moral hideousness of this kind of hell has gotten a lot of Christians to start downplaying it as 'separation from God' or somesuch. It's evil, it's designed to make you afraid, but it's so bad that hardly anyone really thinks about it, even believers. You just can't dwell on it too much without going bonkers, I think. It winds up being so bad it's ineffective at getting even Christians to behave according to their own standards.

Its my guess that Christianirty stole Hell from the Zoroastrians. In that religion everybody goes to Hell but they only stay as long as it takes for their sins to burn away. The less sin the shorter stay and vice versa. Christians made it worse by making it virtually impossible to stay out of and once your there your there to stay.

 

[Cainkane1]

Disagree. I spoke to some Christian who were utterly certain about literal reality of hell, and could go quite at length about specifics of torture. They were not the least bit terrified because they were just as utterly certain THEY were going to heaven.

BTW, the only place I met such people was in US military, and frankly this scares me. Of course, they were a small minority even there.

The specifics of torture in Hell are simple. You are covered with fire and like Moses burning bush you aren't completely consumed. You burn, you grow new skin and you burn some more. Meanwhile God in his infinite mercy has worms chewing on your bubbling frying flesh. One billion years later its the same situation. Glory glory.

 

[Mister Agenda]

Its my guess that Christianirty stole Hell from the Zoroastrians. In that religion everybody goes to Hell but they only stay as long as it takes for their sins to burn away. The less sin the shorter stay and vice versa. Christians made it worse by making it virtually impossible to stay out of and once your there your there to stay.

I guess that hell just wasn't bad enough.

 

[Twiler]

Disagree. I spoke to some Christian who were utterly certain about literal reality of hell, and could go quite at length about specifics of torture. They were not the least bit terrified because they were just as utterly certain THEY were going to heaven.

BTW, the only place I met such people was in US military, and frankly this scares me. Of course, they were a small minority even there.

Oh yeah, I forgot about people who have no self-doubt.

 

[Mister Agenda]

See, that's one way of dealing with the concept that hell is real, by convincing yourself only other people will go there.

 

[DOC]

If, however, a deity delivers an unmistakable demonstration of his/her/its existence, then I would become a theist. I don't know what this could be, as I can't imagine any demonstartion that couldn't be put down to a hallucination. I assume that this wouldn't be a problem to any actual deity that exists.

Here is what Christ says about this issue:

http://bible.cc/matthew/16-4.htm

 

[Twiler]

Here is what Christ says about this issue:

http://bible.cc/matthew/16-4.htm

Words on a page. Anyone can write things down.

 

[Complexity]

Look what the cat dragged in.

Naughty kitty!

 

[Meadmaker]

Here is what Christ says about this issue:

http://bible.cc/matthew/16-4.htm

Or, at least, what he may have said, unless of course somebody else just made it up long after he died. And, it isn't exactly clear and convincing evidence, is it?

 

[Robin]

So Jesus said that only the wicked and faithless ask for signs and there won't be any, so don't bother asking.

And Revelations is full of the signs that will precede the last days.

 

[154]

And Revelations is full of the signs that will precede the last days.

It's "Revelation." One. Singular. If you don't even know that, what chance is there that you really know much of anything about the Book, other than your prejudice?

 

[Robin]

It's "Revelation." One. Singular. If you don't even know that, what chance is there that you really know much of anything about the Book, other than your prejudice?

Focussing on the typo rather than addressing the post?

That is very bright I must say.

 

[MetalSeagull]

Frankly, the moral hideousness of this kind of hell has gotten a lot of Christians to start downplaying it as 'separation from God' or somesuch. It's evil, it's designed to make you afraid, but it's so bad that hardly anyone really thinks about it, even believers. You just can't dwell on it too much without going bonkers, I think. It winds up being so bad it's ineffective at getting even Christians to behave according to their own standards.

It took me nearly twenty years to get from christianity to atheism, but rejecting the concept of hell only took a couple of nights thinking about it. Eternal torture for finite crime? Otherwise good people burning for wrong belief? It is evil.

It reminds me of Matt Dillahunty's question: how do you know God is the good one and the devil is the bad one?

I work with a lot of biblical literalists, and I wonder how firm their grasp on the concept of infinity is. The Earth will be a barren rock and the sun have long burned out, and their god will still not have managed to forgive someone who failed to be convinced by a book.

 

[154]

Focussing on the typo rather than addressing the post?

That is very bright I must say.

I don't believe you.
So now you were faced with two possibilities; admit it or lie.
Not surprisingly, you lied.
Since you claim you know and it was merely a "typo," shall I search for other such "typos"?

 

[154]

It would be odd if this world leader had never heard of Revelations or the number of the beast.

Oopsy. Look at that. Another "typo."

Liar.

I won't post the other "typos" going back to 2005.