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Here are some things to think about....ALL About Flight 93
1. No Arab names on flight manifest.
2. FAA registered tail number N591UA, the alleged tail number for Flight 93 as valid until sept 2005.
3. United airlines reported it's flight 93 landed at Cleveland Hopkins International Airport on 9/11
4. A view of the crater shows the plane plunged into the soft ground almost vertically....Yet the hole is only about 20 feet wide but the plane has a 125 ft wingspan.
5. Mayor of Shanksville when commenting on the site said. "There was no plane, No nothing, Only this hole"
6. Capt Frank Monaco of Pennsylvania state police said. " There was no tail sections, No jet engines, No large sections of fueselage in view anywhere near impact crater.
7. Coroner Wallace Miller said there was no bodies there, not one drop of blood..... just what looked like a ten foot ditch with trash in it...
8. Why has government allowed no public access to flight data and cockpit voice recorders. FBI refused detailed investigation of crash site. Filled in crater with dirt and topsoil and cut down scorched trees and shredded them to mulch.. More evidence destroyed...
9. According to Reuters report dated 9/13/01 the FBI was refusing to rule out flight 93 shoot down. Pennsylvania state police officials said on 9/13 that debris from plane was found up to 8 miles away from crash site and that local residents spoke of second plane in the area and burning debris falling from the sky. The fact that debris was found so far from crash site indicates that the aircraft was disintergrating before it hit the ground....
10. Remember the image of the plane hitting the second tower and that enormous fireball we saw when all the jet fuel instantly ignited...Why in the shot from Pennsylvania do we see a puff of black smoke and no more....If that fireball which was so huge at the towers was all the jet fuel igniting why no such fireball for flight 93....I mean the grass around the edge of the crater was hardly singed...Yet at the wtc the jet fuel fire was so intense it buckled ( see i didnt say melted ) steel...I mean the people often say conspiracy theorists cant have it both ways....well neither can you....was the fire hot enough to buckle steel and bring down buildings....or was it not even that hot that it didnt cause more fire at flight 93 site....Just think about that one...
11. The flight may well have been on route to attack the nations capital...But what if the global hawk or other remote control system used to control this plane had malfunctioned....What if the passengers had took back the plane as the lets roll story would have us believe. You see on board was Donald Greene, an experienced pilot of single engined planes. There was also Andrew Garcia, Former Air Traffic Controller. These two men with much ground assistance may well have been able to land this plane. Well what would have happened....Did they get control of the plane...And communicate with the ground that they were in control which is when they were shot down....Dont forget about the discrepancy of if flight 93 crashed at 10:03 or 10:06...What if the plane following 93 shot it down as orders from the ground said to do so....Maybe just maybe this plane was heading for washington...But when the passengers fought back....The government could not have this plane land...I mean what if there were no hijackers....or what if there were but they would have blown the lid off the whole story.....
12. At approximatly 9:58 AM Edward Felt called 911.....Mr. Felt had locked himself in a bathroom on flight 93 and reported the plane had been hijacked and there had been an explosion aboard the plane and he could see white smoke....Authorities could never explain this report and the 911 tape was confiscated by the FBI.
I could point out to you that every single one of those points has been thoroughly debunked and I could link you to all the posts on this forum where they have all been discussed and dismissed as the lies and distortions that they are, but why bother? You won't read them and you won't let go of your mindless faith in the inside job fairytale, so I'll just sit back and watch you bury your head in the sand as others try to educate you.
I dont claim to know who was in on what....All I know is when you look at the points i raised above things just dont make sense....But I am gonna say that the government could have convinced united airlines to coopaerate....I am sure there are certain methods of persuasion...
I could point out to you that every single one of those points has been thoroughly debunked and I could link you to all the posts on this forum where they have all been discussed and dismissed as the lies and distortions that they are, but why bother? You won't read them and you won't let go of your mindless faith in the inside job fairytale, so I'll just sit back and watch you bury your head in the sand as others try to educate you.
What about Susan McElwain who saw the small plane fly at roughly 40-50 feet above her minivan.... Has her quote been debunked....I mean she did see a small plane fly over her van after all aircraft had been grounded....And she was later visited by FBI who told her there was no plane around, but then they changed that story.......Was she telling the truth...
It would be easier and you'd likely get more responses if you'd just tell everyone now which parts of the "BUFFOONERY" that you haven't bought "hook line and sinker". It would be shorter and require less time that way.
I dont claim to know who was in on what....All I know is when you look at the points i raised above things just dont make sense....But I am gonna say that the government could have convinced united airlines to coopaerate....I am sure there are certain methods of persuasion...
So they convinced United Airlines to cooperate in killing their own employees, pretending that one of their aircraft crashed when it actually didn't. Basically to go along with an act that put the airline into Chapter 11 and almost put it under. All the while keeping the people at United who were "in on it" quiet for all these years. The only evidence you have in all this is that you think this is the way it happened. You have nothing to support it. In other words your theory is a house of cards and someone just pulled the bottom one.
What about Susan McElwain who saw the small plane fly at roughly 40-50 feet above her minivan.... Has her quote been debunked....I mean she did see a small plane fly over her van after all aircraft had been grounded....And she was later visited by FBI who told her there was no plane around, but then they changed that story.......Was she telling the truth...
wow guess i never knew these planes could reach those speeds. When i researched the the boeing 757 the max speed was .80 Mach (530 mph, 458 knots, 850 km/h at 35,000 ft cruise altitude)....But so many laws of physics were broke this day i guess we can ignore the max speed a boeing can reach.....
When you looked up those speeds you failed to take into account that those max speeds are not where the aircraft come apart. Aircraft manufacturers put in a certain safety factor into their performance data. They know the aircraft can fly at a higher rate of speed. However they don't want the aircraft to get anywhere near the edge of the envelope.
That's why I made the point about the DC-8 breaking the sound barrier. Even though its listed top speed was sub-sonic it obviously could do more.
wtcconspiracy:
Tell you what, Pick one of that list and if we can explain it to you in depth, will you believe that flight 93 crashed in Shanksville and there was no conspiracy involved?
Miller has kept in touch with many of the families. Five months after the crash, once the long, painstaking identification process was completed, he realized he had one larger duty remaining. Finally, some fragment of each of the dead had been positively identified, either by DNA or, in a few cases, fingerprints. So now the remains were going to be returned, he says, "and some people were going to look inside the caskets and I wanted them to know it would be shocking. I had to explain
wtcconspiracy:
Tell you what, Pick one of that list and if we can explain it to you in depth, will you believe that flight 93 crashed in Shanksville and there was no conspiracy involved?
4. A view of the crater shows the plane plunged into the soft ground almost vertically....Yet the hole is only about 20 feet wide but the plane has a 125 ft wingspan
Be aware I need indepth....I need proof....and would like to know a bit about why there was no damage to surrounding area of crater.....I know thats kinda 2....but hey i need a lot of convincing....
4. A view of the crater shows the plane plunged into the soft ground almost vertically....Yet the hole is only about 20 feet wide but the plane has a 125 ft wingspan
Be aware I need indepth....I need proof....and would like to know a bit about why there was no damage to surrounding area of crater.....I know thats kinda 2....but hey i need a lot of convincing....
Wrong, it is you who needs to provide the physics, calculations and other evidence that the damage was inconsistent with what would be expected under those circumstances. Your personal incredulence doesn't count.
4. A view of the crater shows the plane plunged into the soft ground almost vertically....Yet the hole is only about 20 feet wide but the plane has a 125 ft wingspan
Be aware I need indepth....I need proof....and would like to know a bit about why there was no damage to surrounding area of crater.....I know thats kinda 2....but hey i need a lot of convincing....
I have some things to do tonight (watch a Christmas special with my son) but I will leave you with some photos. Pay attention to the size of the crater and the burned trees and such in the back ground. Also notice the sparce ground that the plane crashed in.
4. A view of the crater shows the plane plunged into the soft ground almost vertically....Yet the hole is only about 20 feet wide but the plane has a 125 ft wingspan
Be aware I need indepth....I need proof....and would like to know a bit about why there was no damage to surrounding area of crater.....I know thats kinda 2....but hey i need a lot of convincing....
Here are some things to think about....ALL About Flight 93
1. No Arab names on flight manifest.
2. FAA registered tail number N591UA, the alleged tail number for Flight 93 as valid until sept 2005.
3. United airlines reported it's flight 93 landed at Cleveland Hopkins International Airport on 9/11
4. A view of the crater shows the plane plunged into the soft ground almost vertically....Yet the hole is only about 20 feet wide but the plane has a 125 ft wingspan.
5. Mayor of Shanksville when commenting on the site said. "There was no plane, No nothing, Only this hole"
6. Capt Frank Monaco of Pennsylvania state police said. " There was no tail sections, No jet engines, No large sections of fueselage in view anywhere near impact crater.
7. Coroner Wallace Miller said there was no bodies there, not one drop of blood..... just what looked like a ten foot ditch with trash in it...
8. Why has government allowed no public access to flight data and cockpit voice recorders. FBI refused detailed investigation of crash site. Filled in crater with dirt and topsoil and cut down scorched trees and shredded them to mulch.. More evidence destroyed...
9. According to Reuters report dated 9/13/01 the FBI was refusing to rule out flight 93 shoot down. Pennsylvania state police officials said on 9/13 that debris from plane was found up to 8 miles away from crash site and that local residents spoke of second plane in the area and burning debris falling from the sky. The fact that debris was found so far from crash site indicates that the aircraft was disintergrating before it hit the ground....
10. Remember the image of the plane hitting the second tower and that enormous fireball we saw when all the jet fuel instantly ignited...Why in the shot from Pennsylvania do we see a puff of black smoke and no more....If that fireball which was so huge at the towers was all the jet fuel igniting why no such fireball for flight 93....I mean the grass around the edge of the crater was hardly singed...Yet at the wtc the jet fuel fire was so intense it buckled ( see i didnt say melted ) steel...I mean the people often say conspiracy theorists cant have it both ways....well neither can you....was the fire hot enough to buckle steel and bring down buildings....or was it not even that hot that it didnt cause more fire at flight 93 site....Just think about that one...
11. The flight may well have been on route to attack the nations capital...But what if the global hawk or other remote control system used to control this plane had malfunctioned....What if the passengers had took back the plane as the lets roll story would have us believe. You see on board was Donald Greene, an experienced pilot of single engined planes. There was also Andrew Garcia, Former Air Traffic Controller. These two men with much ground assistance may well have been able to land this plane. Well what would have happened....Did they get control of the plane...And communicate with the ground that they were in control which is when they were shot down....Dont forget about the discrepancy of if flight 93 crashed at 10:03 or 10:06...What if the plane following 93 shot it down as orders from the ground said to do so....Maybe just maybe this plane was heading for washington...But when the passengers fought back....The government could not have this plane land...I mean what if there were no hijackers....or what if there were but they would have blown the lid off the whole story.....
12. At approximatly 9:58 AM Edward Felt called 911.....Mr. Felt had locked himself in a bathroom on flight 93 and reported the plane had been hijacked and there had been an explosion aboard the plane and he could see white smoke....Authorities could never explain this report and the 911 tape was confiscated by the FBI.
my sources are various books I have read...I can provide full list but the two i quote from tonite are 9/11 synthetic terror by Webster Griffin Tarpley and The 9/11 conspiracy by James H. Fetzer, PH. D
anyhow once again its that time of night when i must turn off the computer. I will continue the discussion tomorrow if anyone interested....But look forward to reading all the responses when i wake up in the morning....
Thanks everyone for keeping this a lively discussion....
my sources are various books I have read...I can provide full list but the two i quote from tonite are 9/11 synthetic terror by Webster Griffin Tarpley and The 9/11 conspiracy by James H. Fetzer, PH. D
hink about what you're suggesting here, Ben: that the FAA knew flight 93 didn't crash, refused to go along with the evil conspirators, and made their protest known by keeping the tail number active, with the hope that their message would be discovered by a diligent member of the YouTube Youth Brigade. Think about that, Ben. Does it strike you as absurd in any way? Is it more likely that no one at United asked the FAA to remove the listing until 2005?
4. A view of the crater shows the plane plunged into the soft ground almost vertically....Yet the hole is only about 20 feet wide but the plane has a 125 ft wingspan.
The mayor of Shanksville is completely convinced that flight 93 crashed there. Don't believe it? Ask him. The plane hit the ground at 580 mph, as fast as a bullet fired from a .45 ACP. Of course there was no intact plane there. Do not feign ignorance of such simple things.
6. Capt Frank Monaco of Pennsylvania state police said. " There was no tail sections, No jet engines, No large sections of fueselage in view anywhere near impact crater.
A particularly egregious and nasty attempt to discredit Miller, who spent two weeks on his hands and knees collecting human remains. One of the first things he saw on the scene was a section of human vertebrae with spinal cord attached. Miller personally identified 12 of the victims. He is interviewed in several documentaries, venting his frustration about conspiracist liars who take his words out of context. Don't believe me? Then ask him.
Somerset County Coroner's Office
555 Tayman Avenue, Somerset, PA 15501
(814) 445-6900
Wallace Miller, Coroner
If you won't contact Miller, I want to know what you're afraid of.
8. Why has government allowed no public access to flight data and cockpit voice recorders. FBI refused detailed investigation of crash site. Filled in crater with dirt and topsoil and cut down scorched trees and shredded them to mulch.. More evidence destroyed...
You'd know these things if you had bothered to check the links I provided.
1,200 people worked at the crash site. Members of the Shanksville and Stoystown volunteer fire departments spent over 1,500 hours there. They think you people are disgusting. Don't believe me? Ask them.
9. According to Reuters report dated 9/13/01 the FBI was refusing to rule out flight 93 shoot down. Pennsylvania state police officials said on 9/13 that debris from plane was found up to 8 miles away from crash site and that local residents spoke of second plane in the area and burning debris falling from the sky. The fact that debris was found so far from crash site indicates that the aircraft was disintergrating before it hit the ground....
False. The FBI investigated the possibility of a shoot down and found it to have no basis. They also tested the recovered parts for explosive residue. The FDR and CVR tell us exactly what happened. The witnesses tell us that the plane went down intact. The FDR tells us that all systems were operating normally. The debris found far from the site consisted of scraps of paper and cloth that were carried there by the wind.
10. Remember the image of the plane hitting the second tower and that enormous fireball we saw when all the jet fuel instantly ignited...Why in the shot from Pennsylvania do we see a puff of black smoke and no more....If that fireball which was so huge at the towers was all the jet fuel igniting why no such fireball for flight 93
Val McClatchey's photo shows the mushroom cloud after the fireball had consumed its fuel. The same thing happened with the WTC explosions. This isn't rocket science, wtc.
Witnesses in this video saw flight 93 go down and the fireball. Are they liars, wtc?
Charles Sturtz, 53, who lives just over the hillside from the crash site, said a fireball 200 feet high shot up over the hill. He got to the crash scene even before the firefighters. http://tinyurl.com/rl5qc
"There was a great explosion and you could see the flames. It was a massive, massive explosion. Flames and then smoke and then a massive, massive mushroom cloud." http://tinyurl.com/m347n
"Then Peterson said he saw a fireball, heard an explosion and saw a mushroom cloud of smoke rise into the sky.
Peterson rushed to the scene on an all-terrain vehicle and when he arrived he saw bits and pieces of an airliner spread over a large area of an abandoned strip-mine in Stonycreek Township.
"There was a crater in the ground that was really burning," Peterson said. Strewn about were pieces of clothing hanging from trees and parts of the Boeing 757, but nothing bigger than a couple of feet long, he said. Many of the items were burning." http://tinyurl.com/fa75e
"I just watched with my mouth open as this yellow mushroom cloud rose up just like an atomic bomb over the hill where I like to go hunting," said 72- year-old John Walsh
Barefoot and in his bathrobe, he drove up the dirt road to rescue anyone he could find. There would be nothing he could do.
Debris, including photographs and other papers that survived the fireball, was strewn over a wide area. Residents have spent days collecting it. http://tinyurl.com/oapxx
Wrong. Grass in the direction of the plane's travel, which is also the direction of fuel dispersion, was burned away, as were trees. The burn marks are obvious in many photos. The crater was on fire when rescuers got there, as was the woods in several places. Jet fuel was everywhere.
"Shanksville Volunteer Fire Company Assistant Fire Chief Rick King and three firefighters were the first responders on the scene with an engine and a tanker. Shanksville Fire Chief Terry Shaffer also responded from 10 minutes away.
While enroute to the scene, there was a concern for the potential of large numbers of casualties. Chief Shaffer requested additional ambulances and EMS units dispatched to the scene. Two ambulances from outside the county were also alerted but were placed in service while responding. Upon arrival, firefighters found small pieces of the plane, spot fires, and a large quantity of fuel scattered across a wide debris field. A quick survey of the scene found no survivors.
Wrong. The fire started by the jet fuel and spread by the office contents buckled the steel. Do not make this mistake again. Here's WTC building 5. The fire was fueled by office contents. Clear enough?
More information on the effects of fire on structural steel here and here. You won't read it, but what the hell.
I mean the people often say conspiracy theorists cant have it both ways....well neither can you....was the fire hot enough to buckle steel and bring down buildings....or was it not even that hot that it didnt cause more fire at flight 93 site....Just think about that one...
Blather. This isn't a video game, wtc. This happened to real people in the real world, and is supported by the mountains of evidence that you refuse to even look at. That sucks. You should change your behavior.
12. At approximatly 9:58 AM Edward Felt called 911.....Mr. Felt had locked himself in a bathroom on flight 93 and reported the plane had been hijacked and there had been an explosion aboard the plane and he could see white smoke....Authorities could never explain this report and the 911 tape was confiscated by the FBI.
John Shaw Westmoreland 911 operator took Edward Felt's call from flight 93
The story that Edward Felt reported an explosion and smoke comes from one story in the disreputable British tabloid The Mirror. There are numerous sources that say this didn't happen, including Felt's family, who heard the recording of his phone call.
"For example, in the days following the crash, the Associated Press interviewed Glen Cramer, a Westmoreland County emergency services supervisor, who told AP and other news agencies that he had read "off a transcript" that minutes before the crash a passenger, David Felt, had called and told the dispatcher that he had he had heard an explosion and that there was white smoke in the pane.
But in a phone interview, Felt's younger brother Gordon, who was played the 911 tape by the FBI when he went to hear the cockpit recordings in a special event for the victims' families, said, "There was no mention of white smoke or an explosion." Also, the dispatcher who took the call, John Shaw, confirmed that Felt had mentioned neither bomb nor white smoke. "It never happened," he stated". http://web.archive.org/web/20041101...com/content/2002/11_28/news_cover_story.shtml
“A male passenger, Edward Felt, did call from the bathroom of the plane, but never mentioned an explosion or puff of smoke, said John Shaw, the dispatcher who took the call. “Didn't happen,” he said. Felt's wife, who heard a tape of the call, corroborated Shaw's story.”
(Jere Longman, Among the Heroes, p. 369) (New York Times, 3/27/02)
Ben, you are years behind, even for a 9/11 conspiracist. That's because you've chosen the worst possible sources of information: Killtown, Tarpley, Fetzer. These are people who are known as getting nothing right. They're the kings of deliberate ignorance. Why in the world would you turn to them for information about an important subject?
Normally I just put no-planers on ignore. If people can't figure out that airliners crashed on 9/11 they're beyond my help. I made an exception for you because you act as if this is the first day you've encountered any of these ideas, and because you appear to be quite young.
It is quite disturbing to me that you ignored the resources I gave you to answer all of your questions. I genuinely want to know why that is, Ben. My site is linked in my signature.
Shape up, Ben. So far, everything you claim about 9/11 is wrong. It's hard to get everything wrong. It takes work. You need to recognize that this is BAD.
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