Why does America still endorse the One Drop Rule?

[Skeptical Greg]

... What are your thoughts on this issue?

What Denver said..

I don't think it's ever come up here before, and you bringing it up would seem to indicate it is of more concern to you than you would have us believe..


Rather than ' one drop ' being some sort of stigma in the US, lately it has become a source of pride for many.. Claiming some kind of minority ancestry can work in one's favor, when applying for a job or access to education....

 

[theprestige]

It's not only in America, it's the same everywhere : whatever your ancestry, you'll always be identified as a member of the "darkest/foreignest" part that shows up on your skin or features (slanted eyes, dark hair, etc.).

And that is not the One Drop Rule. Call it the "You Are What You Appear to Be Rule", or something. Whatever you call it, it's in direct opposition to L.Y.S.'s ODR.

For example, consider the case of someone with Asian parents, mostly Asian grandparents, and who exhibits some conventional physical "Asian" characteristics. If they were to claim that their maternal grandfather was a white anglo-saxon, and therefore they too were white anglo-saxon, L.Y.S. would flatly reject their claim, and probably tell them their "self-identity was rubbish".

 

[Flo]

That's because it was set up that way. Prior to the inception of race in the 15th century the only culture that practiced the color thing was India. The concept of color as an issue only came about with colonization and chattel slavery. The means of justifying human suffering were necessary for perceived progress. Which I am personally not mad about. It is what it is, but race pretty much came about because colonization and slavery.

I very much doubt* that the variations in skin color (and in other features) had never been noticed or used in any discriminatory way between the various African populations before the arrival of European colonisators.

* in fact, I know for a fact that it has been so for centuries before the first slavers ever set feet there. The Bantus tribes of Western Africa haven't waited for the Europeans to discriminate against the Peuls, for example.

I totally disagree with the slanted eyes part. Most mixed Eurasians are able to proclaim both ancestries, and are generally well accepted by both communities. I feel that the Chinese are much less likely to accept a mixed race person as full Chinese.

I can proclaim my various ancestries all I want, and so can my Eurasian friends, it nevertheless remains that everywhere in Europe (and in Asia), I'm referred to as black and they as mostly Asian (and they as mostly Europeans whenever they visit their country of half-origin). The only true part of your argument is that their European part is usually not totally glossed over as is mine.

As for the Chinese and Japanese, they don't consider mixed-race persons as their (full) compatriots indeed.

 

[L.Y.S.]

Does your guarantee come with a warranty? If it's defective do I get my money back?

What if I guarantee that almost nobody sees it as a rule?

If you can't see that the product you just purchased is working take it up with quality control personnel at the reality check factory.

 

[theprestige]

BTW... is there one drop of anything but white on this entire message board?

I guess it depends how you define "white", and whether you believe the claims of anonymous people on the Internet.

I, for one, claim that the background of this message board's default color scheme is more of a beige, and that the scheme includes red and black trim (not to mention black fonts for most text, and a vast catalog of emoticons in a wide range of colors). But you don't know me, and the choice of whether to accept my claim is one only you can make.

 

[theprestige]

If you can't see that the product you just purchased is working take it up with quality control personnel at the reality check factory.

Ask you to provide evidence for your claims, and address the flaws I've identified in your arguments, you mean? Done and done. I eagerly await your considered response.

 

[L.Y.S.]

I very much doubt* that the variations in skin color (and in other features) had never been noticed or used in any discriminatory way between the various African populations before the arrival of European colonisators.

* in fact, I know for a fact that it has been so for centuries before the first slavers ever set feet there. The Bantus tribes of Western Africa haven't waited for the Europeans to discriminate against the Peuls, for example.

Provide me evidence that skin color was an issue prior to the 1400s in sub-Saharan Africa. You'll understand if I don't this assertion.

I can proclaim my various ancestries all I want, and so can my Eurasian friends, it nevertheless remains that everywhere in Europe (and in Asia), I'm referred to as black and they as mostly Asian (and they as mostly Europeans whenever they visit their country of half-origin). The only true part of your argument is that their European part is usually not totally glossed over as is mine.

As for the Chinese and Japanese, they don't consider mixed-race persons as their (full) compatriots indeed.

Well I'm telling you now that you're mixed and I'm sure you know that. I would never call you black, understand that. No mixed person is black. No mixed person is of any race. A mixed person is human, that's it. No amount of slave law or rhetoric will change this fact. People of one race or the majority of a race are that race.

ETA: My prove was proven in this article about the origins of race.

 

[L.Y.S.]

Ask you to provide evidence for your claims, and address the flaws I've identified in your arguments, you mean? Done and done. I eagerly await your considered response.

Dude do I seriously need to prove something that you can go outside and prove yourself? You can get a better answer by going to Starbucks and interviewing anonymous strangers than I can give over the internet. Mixed people are still considered black. My point is that they are not. Plain and simple

 

[Professor Yaffle]

It does seem to be true that in America, people of mixed race are more likely to identify with the black side of their heritage than they would be Britain. A mixed race black/white person in the US is more likely to marry a black person than a white person for example, whereas the opposite is true in the UK.

http://www.britishfuture.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/The-melting-pot-generation.pdf

 

[Flo]

Provide me evidence that skin color was an issue prior to the 1400s in sub-Saharan Africa. You'll understand if I don't this assertion.

let's agree to disagree, then ...

Well I'm telling you now that you're mixed and I'm sure you know that. I would never call you black, understand that.

I absolutely don't care, and don't even complain, about what people call me. I was just noticing that the one-drop-rule is prevalent absolutely everywhere in the World, not just in America. Most of the time it's, as The Prestige said, a way of describing people by how they are looking like, but sometimes it's just another way for losers to feel better by belittling people about their origins ...

 

[Polaris]

We still do? Hmmm, must have missed the memo.

 

[bigred]

What Denver said..

I don't think it's ever come up here before, and you bringing it up would seem to indicate it is of more concern to you than you would have us believe..


Rather than ' one drop ' being some sort of stigma in the US, lately it has become a source of pride for many.. Claiming some kind of minority ancestry can work in one's favor, when applying for a job or access to education....

Heck yeah. Worked for Obama, after all. When applying for a job, I'm so not white.

 

[Professor Yaffle]

Just out of interest, I'm thinking of a couple of successful british mixed-race athletes in the UK: Jessica Ennis

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=j..._4DgAg&sqi=2&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1360&bih=643

and Jamie Baulch

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=j...sYHQBg&sqi=2&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1360&bih=643

Would either of those be considered as just "black" in the US?

In the UK, both would probably be called mixed race - or white, as a lot of people don't know Ennis comes from mixed parentage. Baulch is more likely to be described as Welsh than he is black. It's true that the darker skinned mixed race people would be more likely to be referred to as Black, so in the UK its mostly a matter of appearances, I think.

ETA: Also Ryan Giggs the footballer (soccer player ) is 1/4 black - a grandparent from Sierra Leone. Would he be considered black in the US if people knew his ethnic heritage (because I doubt you can tell by looking at him)?

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=r...Ow7QbnlIDAAQ&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAQ&biw=1360&bih=643

 

[WildCat]

America Ferrera endorses the "one drop rule"?

 

[Information Analyst]

I place greater importance on self-identity. As far as I know, my ancestors have been Irish, and so I self-identify as such. Growing up, I was taught about the history of Ireland and was constantly hearing about how my family in Moate lived and spent lots of time with my cousins from dear old Ireland.

Define "ancestors." My paternal grandmother and a great-gradfather on my mother's side were actually from Ireland, but think it would be preposterous to call myself "Irish" on the grounds of even 37½% of my DNA.

 

[Vic Vega]

We're all black, then.

zooterkin nails it in post two!

 

[PGH]

There was a thread in religion and philosophy called Miscegenation. The OP of the thread simply asked, "your thoughts"? The responses of posters varied mildly. Some thought wtf, others thought GREAT! At any rate, I've seen one post about racial purity. How the concept of racial purity is just ridiculous etc. Now I don't have not a problem with racial mixing. It is what is. It's neither good nor bad. I could give a damn. It's the simple product of two people of two different races having sex and producing offspring. Who people have sex with, and why they have sex with them is beyond my desire to care. However, I brought this topic up to talk about a societal slave law which is still very much respected by most Americans either consciously or unconsciously. This is the one-drop rule.

Now for those of you who are unfamiliar with the one-drop rule, it's basically that any percentile of black/African ancestry makes you black. Although it is no longer a de jure practice, it is still very much a de facto practice. Many black, white, and Asian people still consider mixed race people of black ancestry black. I sincerely disagree with the practice because I personally believe it produces negative side effects on the self images of both the mixed person and the said racial group. I understand that this is a somewhat controversial stance, but I think the concept that someone has a black grandpa therefore he is black is ridiculous. If none of his subsequent progenitors were black he is not black. What are your thoughts on this issue?

Some see a double negative, probably just a typing error. But what might Freud say?

 

[TjW]

L.Y.S.: Just out of curiosity, granting that a "one-drop rule" is stupid, what rule would you prefer?

 

[tyr_13]

If the cut off is really a quarter, then I'm nothing.

 

[MRC_Hans]

L.Y.S.: Just out of curiosity, granting that a "one-drop rule" is stupid, what rule would you prefer?

Considering the fact that 'race' is an entirely arbitrary distinction, why do we need a rule?

Hans