Why do Republicans hate Common Core educational standards?

[Travis]

Instead I pointed out your grossly fallacious premise.

It is called critical thinking, you had a chance to use it and you blew it.

"Republicans hate education" is stundies worthy.

I offered up only speculative opinion based on my own prejudices while also offering up the opportunity for others to put forth their own ideas.

I don't get why every thread on the positions of the right wing get turned around and made about me. That seems dishonest as it reeks of trying to change the subject.

I think we have gotten to the point that if you were to start a thread titled, "Republican Speaker of the House bathes in blood of young children as part of pact with the devil," then there would be a lot of JREF posters who would think you were serious.

I now have the title of my April Fools thread!

 

[catsmate]

Why do Republicans hate Common Core educational standards?
Because educated people are less likely to fall foe the Hippos' lies?

 

[ponderingturtle]

Have kids ever wanted to go to school?

Sure. We just need to send kids into coal mines for a few years when they are 5 or so. Give them an understanding of the world. Like the good old days before all those regulations.

 

[Bikewer]

I will try to avoid undue generalization lest I give offense....

There's been a lot of comment on the resistane to Common Core on the various NPR shows I listen to.
It seems that much of this is due to a dislike/distrust of federally-mandated standards. The often-repeated phrase you hear is that "parents and teachers know best how to educate their children"... That this should be done at a local level, rather than have standards imposed from above.
This in the face of the fact that all of those foreign countries who's children outperform ours have nationally-mandated standards...
And the nagging thought that one should think that if "parents" know best how to educate their kids, what happens when those parents are the product of sub-standard educations?
Why do we require teachers to have university degrees?
Seems a waste of money.

 

[tyr_13]

I will try to avoid undue generalization lest I give offense....

There's been a lot of comment on the resistane to Common Core on the various NPR shows I listen to.
It seems that much of this is due to a dislike/distrust of federally-mandated standards. The often-repeated phrase you hear is that "parents and teachers know best how to educate their children"... That this should be done at a local level, rather than have standards imposed from above.
This in the face of the fact that all of those foreign countries who's children outperform ours have nationally-mandated standards...
And the nagging thought that one should think that if "parents" know best how to educate their kids, what happens when those parents are the product of sub-standard educations?
Why do we require teachers to have university degrees?
Seems a waste of money.

A lot of my criticisms of Common Core, and those I've seen from my friends who are also left wing, has been the implementation. That aspect of course is the one with the most local/state control.

National standards are a must because local controls have kept failing so substantially in so many places so often. The people pointing and complaining about the idea of having minimum standards for the entire country, and the flaws proving that big government can't do anything right have a much different rational for their criticism than the governor of New York.

It's not valid to say 'this has flaws, therefore the entire idea is a failure', but that has become the reasoning of the day for many groups. This isn't just on Common Core, that reasoning is endemic for those groups. There is no 'let's fix this', there is only 'no'.

 

[TragicMonkey]

I think we have gotten to the point that if you were to start a thread titled, "Republican Speaker of the House bathes in blood of young children as part of pact with the devil," then there would be a lot of JREF posters who would think you were serious.

Don't be ridiculous. Everyone here is smart enough to know that you can't bathe in blood, it's too sticky. You'd have to find only children with untreated hemophilia to avoid the clotting issue, and you'd have to acquire a lot of such children to fill an ordinary bathtub even halfway.

 

[Travis]

They advocate for "local control" because they know that is the way to get things like creationism snuck into schools.

 

[catsmate]

Don't be ridiculous. Everyone here is smart enough to know that you can't bathe in blood, it's too sticky. You'd have to find only children with untreated hemophilia to avoid the clotting issue, and you'd have to acquire a lot of such children to fill an ordinary bathtub even halfway.

A mix of sodium bicarb and citric acid works well to keep your blood liquid.



It's amazing what you can learn from Call of Cthulhu.........

 

[fuelair]

A mix of sodium bicarb and citric acid works well to keep your blood liquid.



It's amazing what you can learn from Call of Cthulhu.........

A little knowledge CAN be a good thing!!!!!
And as to common core and implementation.....
Common Core (properly done) assumes there are basic things in each subject area that students must know/understand and, properly done, arranges those in an order depending on age the child should be able to follow/absorb/use them at. Implementation should mean training the teacher at each grade subject area to know and teach the things appropriate to that grade in the ways shown to best inculcate them in each child and ways to evaluate each child to verify the learning is taking place and is being appropriately applied.

Many of the complaints re:Common Core come from non-professionals who do not understand the process, teachers who do not agree with either the process or the things they are supposed to teach at their student's level(s) , admins who do not want to learn how to evaluate new methods and processes and parents who like the old ways for a variety of reasons and want to avoid change. People not in any of those categories (Teabaggers without children, many republickers, parents who hated school and are fine if their kids do, conservatives who want to sneak in religion, etc.) should not be allowed any input to the process and their views should be completely and absolutely discounted.

Regardless of all this, within 7 years the first adopters will be in the process of changing a number of things about the CC version of their courses to make low C, D and F students do better on them due to their belief that it can be done and parent complaints. Whatever change they go to will result in a reasonable number of lower C and D students moving up to B and higher C level, some lower A moving to mid-low B, higher B student moving to C or high D, most D students and almost all F students will continue at that level.

The top A students will continue as top A students (both top A and Low F students will continue in their spots as both groups are "school-proof" for all practical purposes - and initially (the first couple/3 years of the change) only the parents of the group moving down will be complaining and the group who moved up's parents will be praising the new methods for helping their child show so much improvement. After another 7 years..........

.The school systems as they are done will likely always operate on such a cycle as a need is felt to always move to raise the bottom group with no recognition that a new bottom group for which the changed procedures do not work as well as the ones they had will form. This rising tide NEVER has floated all boats - it floats some and jostles others into sinking.

 

[WildCat]

I've seen a lot of animus against Common Core educational standards from conservatives on facebook, on their blogs and on their forums.

That's odd, around here it's the Chicago Teachers Union that is fighting educational standards.

I guess they've become teabaggers and Republicans?

 

[thaiboxerken]

That's odd, around here it's the Chicago Teachers Union that is fighting educational standards.

I guess they've become teabaggers and Republicans?

Maybe, i guess it depends on what those standards are. Can you provide any details, or did you just look for something to tu quoque about?

 

[TragicMonkey]

A mix of sodium bicarb and citric acid works well to keep your blood liquid.

You are a truly disgusting and terrible person. That would totally spoil the flavor.

 

[elbe]

Maybe, i guess it depends on what those standards are. Can you provide any details, or did you just look for something to tu quoque about?

The link was about ISAT, a standardized test. While both are "standardized" to call a standardized test "educational standards" is probably a bit dishonest. If curious you can look at the linked website (it's broken in the CTU post) for the organization against the test.

 

[Brainster]

Why do Republicans hate Common Core educational standards?
Because educated people are less likely to fall foe the Hippos' lies?

Actually, if you look at exit polling, the group most likely to vote for the Democrats are high school dropouts.

 

[ShadowSot]

Actually, if you look at exit polling, the group most likely to vote for the Democrats are high school dropouts.

High school graduates are more likely to vote Republican, while college graduates are more likely to vote Democrats. High education tends to correlate to voting Dem, lower tends to relate to Republicans.

http://www.politifact.com/georgia/s...abato/education-level-tied-voting-tendencies/

 

[Unabogie]

Actually, if you look at exit polling, the group most likely to vote for the Democrats are high school dropouts.

High school graduates are more likely to vote Republican, while college graduates are more likely to vote Democrats. High education tends to correlate to voting Dem, lower tends to relate to Republicans.

http://www.politifact.com/georgia/s...abato/education-level-tied-voting-tendencies/

Your "facts" are no match for his "gut".

 

[WildCat]

Maybe, i guess it depends on what those standards are. Can you provide any details, or did you just look for something to tu quoque about?

I did provide the details, but it requires you to actually click a link.

And this is hardly the first time a teachers union has complained about standards, they're always complaining about standardized testing. They want white collar pay and benefits without any of the responsibility or accountability that goes with it. They want the responsibility and accountability of an assembly line worker at a widget factory.

 

[WildCat]

The link was about ISAT, a standardized test. While both are "standardized" to call a standardized test "educational standards" is probably a bit dishonest. If curious you can look at the linked website (it's broken in the CTU post) for the organization against the test.

Are you saying they aren't against standards, they're just against measuring their students against those standards?

May as well have no standards at all then.

 

[Magyar]

I did provide the details, but it requires you to actually click a link.

And this is hardly the first time a teachers union has complained about standards, they're always complaining about standardized testing. They want white collar pay and benefits without any of the responsibility or accountability that goes with it. They want the responsibility and accountability of an assembly line worker at a widget factory.

I mostly agree with this - my, admittedly limited experience with US teachers, is my 2 kids and their nieces and nephews who have gone to the same school and often the same teachers spanning about 8-10 years from oldest to youngest. My wife is a pack rat who saves everything so it was very easy to go back and pull out assignments and papers from the oldest child only find that 5,6,7 years later the teacher was handing out exactly the same photo copied assignment. While there is nothing wrong with that on the face of it. (if the assignment is good and accomplished the required task) the issue is the constant whining about professional development and all the time teachers have to put in off hours to keep up with lessons etc.

However that being said, this has NOTHING to do with standards. And other than a political and backdoor religious agenda there is no legit reason I see why standards nation wide should not be a default.

IS there some kind of magical difference between kids in TX and MA that would prohibit them from knowing that 4x4 is 16 at the age of 6!? Further even the most "demanding" requirements are a joke compared to other parts of the world and the education I experienced.

 

[The Don]

That's odd, around here it's the Chicago Teachers Union that is fighting educational standards.

I guess they've become teabaggers and Republicans?

Unfortunately the link doesn't describe why the teachers in question are opposed to the testing. Here in the UK we have testing and teacher opposition is focused on the disruption that the testing causes. Children are being taught to do well in the standardised testing and administrators and managers are obesessing about doing well in the tests rather than the children getting an education. The other thing that standardised testing is criticised about is that it fails to adequately take into account external factors so that schools in areas where English is not a majority language and teachers get little or no support from parents do less well than schools in solid middle-class areas.