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Why do people hate Jews?



ETA: can someone tell me how to make those damn NSFW tags?

Nevermind, got it.
 
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Dustin Kesselberg said:
I'm not justifying Genocide. I'm saying that Genocide is the result when one group of people sees another as being inherently inferior or values them less. I never defended genocide.



Just because it's happens doesn't mean it's right. Why would one country value it's citizens over another? What reason would they have to do such a thing? What's the rational?



But if one group thinks another is inferior and is threatening them somehow then it lets you understand their mindset. The Nazis saw the Jews as inherently inferior to them and saw Germans as somehow "superior" to all other nations. This is the mentality that led to the Holocaust.



Some deaths are just unjustified in war. The fact that collateral damage occurs in war doesn't excuse all civilian deaths.
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Well it certainly sounded like you were, furthermore holding another group as inferior to you does not promote genocide, it might promote discrimination, but committing genocide is a whole other issue.

To be clear my statement is that if it comes down to the death of its own citizens versus the death of another countries citizens the country in question will always choose the life of its own citizens over the life of citizens in other countries. Do you believe this is not true? Do you think countries should choose the life of citizens in other countries instead of their own?

But this was not just he mentality of the Nazis, they saw themselves as universally supreme to all other races and they saw Jews as less than dogs. This goes far beyond simply thinking a group is inferior to you. Furthermore the Nazis then took the step of eradicating all Jews which is a choice, not indicative of thinking a group is inferior to you. In short the Nazis choose to commit genocide, thinking a group is inferior to you and is threating you does not inherently mean you need to eradicate them. Finally it is dangerous to put yourself in the mindset of Nazis, quite often this is used to justify actions taken by the Nazis.

I agree with you and the IDF have identified and apologized for the needless deaths they have caused. My main point is that people get killed in war, mistakes are made. To hold the IDF up to some artificial standard that no one else can meet is hardly fair and to characterize the IDF as outright killers of innocent people is slander and misleading. In short the IDF identified their mistakes and are trying to improve upon them, so why do you continue to tout that the IDF and Israel needlessly killed innocent civilians when you know that innocent civilians get killed all the time in war, and because of mistakes made in war. Finally no one is trying to excuse civilian deaths in this military action, quite the opposite we are identifying them and why they occurred. Like I said the IDF and Israel hold themselves responsible for these deaths, what more are they suppose to do, people get killed in war and mistakes are made in war. Unless you of course have another magical solution that no other country in the world could implement or accomplish!:confused:
 
MaGZ said:
I bet you have seen lots of holocaust movies thanks to the Jews who run Hollywood.
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No actually I haven't, I have read about the holocaust, or do the Jews control everything I read as well and how about the modern development of western civilization post WWII, do they control that is well. Confess, the Jews are God, in control of everything aren't they!!!
 
twinstead said:
How can the answer to propaganda be more propaganda?
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I agree with you but the holocaust is not propaganda, it actually happened, refuting it is kind of like refuting Newtonian physics. If you don't believe it happened then you have more problems than I care to address.;)
 
Dumbledore said:
Well it certainly sounded like you were, furthermore holding another group as inferior to you does not promote genocide, it might promote discrimination, but committing genocide is a whole other issue.
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Holding one group as inferior to you is one of the main causes of genocide. People wouldn't commit genocide if they thought that the other groups were equal.

Dumbledore said:
To be clear my statement is that if it comes down to the death of its own citizens versus the death of another countries citizens the country in question will always choose the life of its own citizens over the life of citizens in other countries. Do you believe this is not true? Do you think countries should choose the life of citizens in other countries instead of their own?
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Countries can hold the interests of their citizens above those of others, however not to the extent of killing other citizens in other countries, unless it is absolutely necessary. I don't believe many of the Lebanese deaths fit that definition of absolutely necessary due to the number of strategic flaws.

Dumbledore said:
But this was not just he mentality of the Nazis, they saw themselves as universally supreme to all other races and they saw Jews as less than dogs. This goes far beyond simply thinking a group is inferior to you.
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It all depends on how inferior you think they are. However the idea that one is superior to the other is the key to genocide.

Dumbledore said:
Furthermore the Nazis then took the step of eradicating all Jews which is a choice, not indicative of thinking a group is inferior to you. In short the Nazis choose to commit genocide, thinking a group is inferior to you and is threating you does not inherently mean you need to eradicate them. Finally it is dangerous to put yourself in the mindset of Nazis, quite often this is used to justify actions taken by the Nazis.
Click to expand...

They wouldn't of committed genocide if they thought the Jews were equal.

Dumbledore said:
I agree with you and the IDF have identified and apologized for the needless deaths they have caused. My main point is that people get killed in war, mistakes are made.
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How is that point relevant when you admit the IDF caused needless deaths? It sounds like an excuse.

Dumbledore said:
To hold the IDF up to some artificial standard that no one else can meet is hardly fair and to characterize the IDF as outright killers of innocent people is slander and misleading. In short the IDF identified their mistakes and are trying to improve upon them, so why do you continue to tout that the IDF and Israel needlessly killed innocent civilians when you know that innocent civilians get killed all the time in war, and because of mistakes made in war. Finally no one is trying to excuse civilian deaths in this military action, quite the opposite we are identifying them and why they occurred. Like I said the IDF and Israel hold themselves responsible for these deaths, what more are they suppose to do, people get killed in war and mistakes are made in war. Unless you of course have another magical solution that no other country in the world could implement or accomplish!:confused:
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I hold all countries to the same standard in war. If the IDF does something I believe is wrong then I'll point it out as quickly as if I think the U.S. did something wrong.
 
MaGZ said:
THE CAUSES OF HOSTILITY TOWARDS JEWS: A HISTORICAL OVERVIEW

http://www.jewishtribalreview.org/02hos.htm
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I watched a documentary about a rich, successful Jewish businessman in Germany before WWII. The Nazi solution to the problem of having such a situation was to take his business off him, allow him to escape to exile with almost nothing, and replace the owner of the business with a family that wasn't Jewish.

In what way did that improve anything? The business stayed exactly the same, just the owners were different. Instead of someone who was Jewish making money from his endevours, it was someone who wasn't Jewish.
 
a_unique_person said:
I watched a documentary about a rich, successful Jewish businessman in Germany before WWII. The Nazi solution to the problem of having such a situation was to take his business off him, allow him to escape to exile with almost nothing, and replace the owner of the business with a family that wasn't Jewish.

In what way did that improve anything? The business stayed exactly the same, just the owners were different. Instead of someone who was Jewish making money from his endevours, it was someone who wasn't Jewish.
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From the Nazi point of view, that was already an improvement.
 
a_unique_person said:
I watched a documentary about a rich, successful Jewish businessman in Germany before WWII. The Nazi solution to the problem of having such a situation was to take his business off him, allow him to escape to exile with almost nothing, and replace the owner of the business with a family that wasn't Jewish.

In what way did that improve anything? The business stayed exactly the same, just the owners were different. Instead of someone who was Jewish making money from his endevours, it was someone who wasn't Jewish.
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From the Nazi perspective, The Jew was taking advantage of the Germans by owning the business and making money off of the German customers. The Nazis thought that Jews had no right to make money off of German customers. Replacing the owner of the business with a German family means that one more German family has an occupation and can sell the goods in an "Aryan way" not taking advantage of the customers.
 
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MaGZ said:
THE CAUSES OF HOSTILITY TOWARDS JEWS: A HISTORICAL OVERVIEW [my resize]
http://www.jewishtribalreview.org/02hos.htm
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Jeezuss, that's a monster link (100+ pages)!

The author's contention is that Jews are hated because the Torah and Talmud name them The Chosen People, and several passages from each exhibit contempt for non-Jews. Well okay -- doctrinal bigotry and exclusivity ain't going to make anyone too popular (though contempt for outsiders is hardly unique to Judaism).

But the author's further contention that the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, in spite of being a crude forgery (which he admits), somehow bolster the claim that Jews are out to take over the world(?!): :confused:

"The context of [this]," says Eugene Korn, "is [Maimonide's] description of an ideal polity under Jewish sovereignty." [KORN, p. 266] Such a world view in traditional Jewish thinking is usually swept under the rug in modern popular discourse. A case in point is the complete lack of historical context in which popular Jewish commentary condemns those non-Jews who readily accepted (and still accept) the infamous Protocols of the Elders of Zion, the best known anti-Jewish text in modern history. (Originating in Eastern Europe, the Protocols claimed to be an actual document from a secret Jewish cabal). "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion," notes Richard Levy,

"one of the most important forgeries of modern times, presents a
Jewish plot to take over the world and to reduce non-Jews to slavery ...
The Protocols found a huge audience, especially following the
turbulent times following World War I ... Why has the Protocols
of Elders of Zion, a shameless fraud, seized the imagination and
informed the political judgment of [anti-Semitic] men and women
throughout the twentieth century?" [SEGEL, p. 3]

Like virtually all Jews who pose such a question, they do not actively seek an answer from within their own community -- i.e., they are really not interested in an honest answer. Why would anyone fall for the idea of a Jewish plot to dominate the world aimed at holding all others in subjugation? Maimonides, above, in classical religious thinking, points to the beginning of an answer. Orthodox conviction that God will favor Jews at the "end of days" to, in some form, rule the world is yet another marker. The Torah/Old Testament states expected Jewish domination clearly in a number of places -- for example:

"The Gentile shall come to thy light, and kings to the brightness
of thy rising ... the forces of the Gentiles shall come unto thee ...
Therefore thy gates shall be open continually; they shall not be
shut day nor night; that men may bring unto thee the forces of the
Gentiles, and that their kings may be brought. For the nation and kingdom
that will not serve thee shall perish; yea, those nations shall be utterly
wasted." [ISAIAH 60, 1-12]

"Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance,
and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession. Thou shalt
break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a
potter's vessel." [PSALMS 2: 8-9]

"Thus saith the Lord, 'The labor of Egypt, and merchandise of
Ethiopia and of the Sabeans, men of stature, shall come over unto
thee, and they shall be thine: they shall come after thee, in chains they
shall come over, and they shall fall down unto thee, they shall make
supplication unto thee, saying, 'Surely God is in thee; and there is none
else, there is no [other] God.'" [ISAIAH 46: 14]
...
...
...​
As prominent anti-Jewish critic Henry Ford once said about his own publishing of an edition of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion:

"You will find we at no time guaranteed their authenticity. We have
merely stated what they contain and have paralleled this with what
actually took place and are leaving it to the mind of the public to
judge." [WARREN, D., 1996, p. 150-151]

In 1920, the London Times reviewed the Protocols, not with condemnation, but with the uneasy sense that much of what the Protocols proclaimed, forgery or not, was coming to pass on the world scene:

"What are these 'Protocols?' ... Are they a forgery? If so, whence comes the
uncanny note of prophecy, prophecy in parts fulfilled, in parts far gone in
the way of fulfilment? Have we been struggling these tragic years to blow up
and extirpate the secret organisation of German world dominion ony to find beneath
it another, more dangerous because more secret? Have we been straining every
fibre of our national body, escaped of a 'Pax Germanica' only to fall into a
'Pax Judaica?' The 'Elders of Zion' as represented in their 'Protocols' are by
no means kinder taskmasters than William II and his henchmen would have
been." [BERMANT, C., 1977, p. 33]
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So, a couple of passages in the Old Testament promise an endtime in which God will destroy the Gentiles (Revelations promises the same to Christians in the New Testament); a Jewish philosopher envisions a utopia under Jewish law (as St. Augustine envisions the triumph of Christian law in "City of God"); Henry Ford (ha!) and a 1920 London Times columnist think it's a good read; therefore "Protocols of the Elders of Zion", a book of FAKE history, is still a pretty accurate depiction and relevant evidence of an international Jewish conspiracy to enslave humankind!!!??? :jaw: Wow, just... wow. You've really got to wonder where this level of prejudice comes from: did a rabbi back over his dog when he was a kid? (Oy veh, such a putz!)
 
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blobru said:
Jeezuss, that's a monster link (100+ pages)!

The author's contention is that Jews are hated because the Torah and Talmud name them The Chosen People, and several passages from each exhibit contempt for non-Jews. Well okay -- doctrinal bigotry and exclusivity ain't going to make anyone too popular (though contempt for outsiders is hardly unique to Judaism).

But the author's further contention that the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, in spite of being a crude forgery (which he admits), somehow bolster the claim that Jews are out to take over the world(?!): :confused:




So, a couple of passages in the Old Testament promise an endtime in which God will destroy the Gentiles (Revelations promises the same to Christians in the New Testament); a Jewish philosopher envisions a utopia under Jewish law (as St. Augustine envisions the triumph of Christian law in "City of God"); Henry Ford (ha!) and a 1920 London Times columnist think it's a good read; therefore "Protocols of the Elders of Zion", a book of FAKE history, is still a pretty accurate depiction and relevant evidence of an international Jewish conspiracy to rule humanity!!!??? :jaw: Wow, just... wow. You've really got to wonder where this level of prejudice comes from: did a rabbi back over his dog when he was a kid? (Oy veh, such a putz!)
Click to expand...

No, not a putz. A schlemiel.

Schlemiel (from the Hebrew name Shlumiel): a hapless fellow. If the Schlemazel is the one who always spills the soup, the schlemiel is the one upon whom it always falls.

Many have made good points before, but I'd like to add a few that I think also bear consideration, with a nod toward the classical Jewish understanding of why the goyim hate us.

I don't think there's one overarching reason for Jew-hatred. For most antisemitten it's an admixture of xenophobia and immaturity, kept fresh through the ages by a Church that just couldn't bear to witness the continued existence - and occasional prosperity - of the very people their God was supposed to have rejected.

The Talmud weighs in on the topic with an ambiguous statement, roughly translated thus: Why was the place the Jews received the Torah called Sinai? Because from there, hate (Hebrew: sin-ah) came into the world.

There are two generally accepted undersrtandings of that statement:

1. Envy of Israel's special relationship with God.

To the Church, it's a jealousy thing. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the Catholic Church has yet to come to terms with a reestablished Jewish government in the Holy Land - this almost sixty years after the fact.

Of course, with the waning of Church influence in international - and local - affairs over the last few centuries, this "true antisemitism" - Jew-hatred that singles out the Jew for theological, cosmic reasons, as opposed to any other minority, or for more mundane reasons - has reared its head only occasionally.

That's one angle. But there's another:

2. The Jews are responsible for making us feel guilty for doing "wrong."

This is even more sinister than the first understanding, and it's one that Nietzsche, chiefly, discussed. If there's a God that actually has specific expectations of humans, that means I can't do whatever the hell I want just because I feel like it. It means morality has meaning beyond any utilitarian, societal function it plays. Actions are essentially right or wrong.

Some people can't stand that idea. It tears them to pieces that the Jewish message of a universal God that cares about human affairs "makes" them feel guilty for acting on their baser desires.

So they target the messenger. Maybe without the messenger, the message will eventually disappear.

It's not jealousy that led to Treblinka and Babi Yar. Mein Kampf resonates more with the second understanding of that Talmudic passage.

Note that the two approaches are not mutually exclusive. They worked in tandem quite well during WWII: the Nazi Final Solution merged with age-old, Church-nurtured Polish, Ukranian, Romanian, Russain, Baltic etc. anti-Semitism to perpetrate the otherwise unthinkable.

In the aftermath of the Holocaust, people are just too shocked by its scale and horror to comprehend how it could happen. Good people cry. Not-so-good people remain indifferent. Bad people try to turn it against the very victims it targeted.

But the Holocaust's enormity affects all understandings of anti-Semitism, and I think people place undue emphasis on economic factors that, although occasionally prominent, fail to address the underlying motives. How many wealthy Jews have there been, really? What kind of perversion does it take to believe that the vast majority of Jews - historically just as dependent on subsistence economies as their gentile neighbors - are part of a huge plot to amass wealth? Pray tell, when, exactly, do my poor ancestors ever get their share in this supposed plot? You know, the ones stripped of their belongings, including the clothes of their backs, as they were herded out of town in Lithuania to be machine-gunned in some ditch as their smiling gentile neighbors cheered on the Einsatzgruppen?

Economic "justifications" for evil only go so far.
 
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