Why do Christians believe Jesus was God himself?

[Resume]

They can communicate telepathically and can bestow clairvoyant visions and dreams. I should know, I've done it many times.

The MDC thread is up yonder.

 

[SpuriusMaximus]

But these things they couldn't understand were and are interactive. A primitive society interacted with them through their shaman. A shaman is like a middleman that acts as a go-between for a tribe and their collective unconscious. Gods are archetypes of the collective unconscious in symbolic form. They can communicate telepathically and can bestow clairvoyant visions and dreams. I should know, I've done it many times.

But again: even if I were to believe that such a thing exists without seeing you win the MDC first, so what?

Regardless of how you want to call that entity -- collective unconscious, great spirit, God, imaginary cat, whatever -- the fact remains that for as long as anyone can remember, every tribe's shaman got BS from it. There are tribes where in the last 200,000 years straight, not a single spirit told them a correct answer even about human reproduction, or about their prey, or about ANYTHING they didn't already know. Worse yet, that great entity not just told them stuff that's only wrong, but stuff which caused endemic warfare between tribes and caused anywhere between a third and two thirds of tribesmen to die pointless violent deaths.

Assuming that such a collective unconscious exists, and that it can indeed send you visions... well, why would you care what's in those visions, since by sheer chance alone it will be more likely to be bogus than anywhere near right?

If a million men went to ask the great guru Baron von Münchhausen for knowledge and at the very least 99% of them got told provably bogus stuff... why would you be the 1,000,001'st guy to go ask the Baron too? If this "collective unconscious" entity of yours told BS to a million who asked it stuff, why would you be the 1,000,001'st to care about what it has to say?

 

[tsig]

But these things they couldn't understand were and are interactive. A primitive society interacted with them through their shaman. A shaman is like a middleman that acts as a go-between for a tribe and their collective unconscious. Gods are archetypes of the collective unconscious in symbolic form. They can communicate telepathically and can bestow clairvoyant visions and dreams. I should know, I've done it many times.

1 Corinthians 13:1 KJV
King James Version
Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

 

[Leumas]

Most non-Catholics are quite unhappy with the Catholic view/practice of Mary.

How about the DEVIL..... as far as Christian theology is concerned he is a God.

He even works with Jesus and possesses Judas. He tempts Jesus knowing who he is and still thinks it is not a waste of time to do so. He makes bets with god and god takes his bets on. He is going to RULE in Hell just as the other three are going to rule in Heaven. So he is KING of HIS realm just as god is king in his. He defied god and is able to defeat god and THWART his plans and his desires and his aspirations. He is ETERNAL just as god and is just as capable as god. Indeed.... he is even more powerful than god when you look at the world and see who really has more INFLUENCE in it. He even has his own hosts of Angels serving him and doing his bidding just like god.

So here is the Quaternity.....The DEVIL, god, jesus and holy casper.

Also consider the Cross..... there are FOUR corners to the cross.... when christians cross themselves it is a FOUR POINTS sign.....yet they only mention THREE the father son and holy phantasm.....why don't they mention the FOURTH deity??

Could it be like in Hebrew....but with even more REVERENCE.... could it be like for YHWH whose name is not pronounced as the actual word but substituted with the word Adonai out of reverence for YHWH's actual name. Could it be the christians do not say the REAL NAME of the FOURTH member of the Quaternity out of reverence for the DIVINE name of the real power behind it all....SATAN?

Moreover, consider the FOUR gospels, why four not three. As Irenaeus explains they are the most perfect arrangement since there are 4 winds and 4 corners for earth. So why only a trinity…..it is because of a secret that is only made known to the INNER CIRCLES (maybe squares would be a better word here) and is not for the riffraff to know..... it has been a Quaternity all along.

Look at the SECRET revealed by the number of books in the NT. There are 27. That is 28 less 1.... the unmentionable ONE. Now look at the number 28.... it is divisible into 4 not 3...but 4. And what do you get when you divide 28 into 4? Yes... SEVEN the most holy number. God rested on the 7th day from his creation of the universe. Now do you realize the secret that has been long hidden within the Bible Code?

In fact if you think about it.... Jesus as his alter-ego the Devil was the snake that beguiled Eve. If it were not for that original twist on the Divine Farce, there would have never been a ROLE for Jesus to PLAY in the whole comedy. So to ensure a meaningful QUEUE for Jesus to enter the plot, he as Satan disguised as a snake initiated the whole drama.

Read Revelation.... the Devil is a CENTRAL character that has the SOLE purpose of preparing the world for the second coming of Jesus. Why would he do that if he is not in CAHOOTS with them and is PART OF THE DIVINE FARCE.

Even when Jesus and god defeat the Devil.... they in fact turn out to have been only PRETENDING all along. The Devil comes back after a 1000 years and REIGNS all over again. And then he finally reigns FOR ETERNITY in his own personal realm.

It only makes sense that the Quaternity of Christianity definitely has the DEVIL as a very powerful DEITY with a CRUCIAL role in it – indeed more powerful than the father even.

YET..... since christianity is a monotheism and not a polytheism….they are ONE. So Jesus is the devil and Satan is God and they are 4 in 1 and 1 in 4 and they are all THE DEVIL just as much as they are gods.

In the NT we are told that that Satan is the one who comes up with wondrous lies(2 Thessalonians 2:9):

"The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works. He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie,"​

Did Jesus "use signs and wonders" to convince people of his lie?


Also....in the light of the above verse.........consider these verses

Is. 45:7 “I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.”

Amos 3:6 “Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?”

Ezek 14:9 “And if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the LORD have deceived that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand upon him, and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel.”

1 Sam. 16:16 “Let our lord now command thy servants, which are before thee, to seek out a man, who is a cunning player on an harp: and it shall come to pass, when the evil spirit from God is upon thee, that he shall play with his hand, and thou shalt be well.”

Judges 9:23 “Then God sent an evil spirit between Abimelech and the men of Shechem; and the men of Shechem dealt treacherously with Abimelech”

2 Chr. 18:22 “Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil against thee.”


2 Chr. 34:24, “Thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will bring evil upon this place, and upon the inhabitants thereof, even all the curses that are written in the book which they have read before the king of Judah”

​

Now Compare what the very same book has to say about LIARS

• They are an Abomination (Proverbs 12:22): Lying lips are abomination to the LORD.
• They are wicked and loathsome (Proverbs 13:5): A righteous man hateth lying: but a wicked man is loathsome, and cometh to shame.
• They are evil and wicked (Isaiah 32:7): The instruments also of the churl are evil: he deviseth wicked devices to destroy the poor with lying words.

 

[Craig B]

In the Sixties in Ireland JFK was part of the Trinity.

Unlike in the case of Padre Pio, there's no suggestion that poor JFK's stigmata were self-inflicted.

 

[Limbo]

Read Revelation.... the Devil is a CENTRAL character that has the SOLE purpose of preparing the world for the second coming of Jesus. Why would he do that if he is not in CAHOOTS with them and is PART OF THE DIVINE FARCE.

That's like saying yin and yang are in cahoots as part of the Tao farce. Or musical instruments are in cahoots as part of the symphony farce.

 

[JoeyDonuts]

Jesus saves ... but Esposito scores on the rebound!

Joe "Bean" Esposito?

 

[Bad vibe]

But these things they couldn't understand were and are interactive. A primitive society interacted with them through their shaman. A shaman is like a middleman that acts as a go-between for a tribe and their collective unconscious. Gods are archetypes of the collective unconscious in symbolic form. They can communicate telepathically and can bestow clairvoyant visions and dreams. I should know, I've done it many times.

Why would anyone accept drug or stress induced delusions to be anything other? As Hans said if you can show that these dreams told you anything useful or original thats consistant and could be verified then you'd have a possible game changer. I fail to see anything of use achieved by screwing with your brain.

 

[SpuriusMaximus]

Well, the big use for the mystic is to feel special, and convince others that he's special in return for some sort of personal gain. The more esoteric you make your particular brand of mystic hooey the less likely the average credule will discover it's hooey.

Well, what's in it for the more commercial-motivated guru -- and FSM knows there's no shortage of them -- is pretty easy to understand. People have been selling each other snake oil for as long as we know. And, yeah, immaterial snake oil where you don't even have to buy bottles and run mix some Aqua Clara, dihydrogen oxide, and the secret ingredient Sum Wa-Tah at the kitchen sink, I can certainly see the advantage there for whoever can pull it off.

What I'm a bit more at a loss is what's in it for Joe Random who isn't selling that, or worse yet, is the one paying for something non-existent.

 

[Resume]

Well, what's in it for the more commercial-motivated guru -- and FSM knows there's no shortage of them -- is pretty easy to understand. People have been selling each other snake oil for as long as we know. And, yeah, immaterial snake oil where you don't even have to buy bottles and run mix some Aqua Clara, dihydrogen oxide, and the secret ingredient Sum Wa-Tah at the kitchen sink, I can certainly see the advantage there for whoever can pull it off.

What I'm a bit more at a loss is what's in it for Joe Random who isn't selling that, or worse yet, is the one paying for something non-existent.

Well, once upon a time, when you were born into a hunter/gatherer village with a club foot and a dead eye, you needed a gig, and I'd bet the current shaman (the one with the club foot and dead eye) was willing to train you up.

Why the rest of the village bought into probably had a lot to do with empathy for your situation. "There for the grace of Ooog go I."

Or something like that. Modern day mystics and shamans are mostly annoyances on internet forums.

 

[Limbo]

Why would anyone accept drug or stress induced delusions to be anything other? As Hans said if you can show that these dreams told you anything useful or original thats consistent and could be verified then you'd have a possible game changer. I fail to see anything of use achieved by screwing with your brain.

Your logic is flawed. What gives you the right to demand consistency? We are dealing with interactive autonomous beings, and you expect consistency? lol. Why hasn't it occurred to you that the gods don't want a global game changer or can't bring one about.

'For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie' -2 Thessalonians 2:11

Expecting consistency from a chemical or something like that is one thing. Expecting it from a person or a god is something else.

 

[Bad vibe]

Your logic is flawed. What gives you the right to demand consistency? We are dealing with interactive autonomous beings, and you expect consistency? lol. Why hasn't it occurred to you that the gods don't want a global game changer or can't bring one about.

'For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie' -2 Thessalonians 2:11

Expecting consistency from a chemical or something like that is one thing. Expecting it from a person or a god is something else.

So basically all this self flagulation/substance abuse/naval gazing has exactly the same results we'd expect if it is nothing more than imagination/delusion? not really much use is it?

 

[Limbo]

So basically all this self flagulation/substance abuse/naval gazing has exactly the same results we'd expect if it is nothing more than imagination/delusion? not really much use is it?

Who is "we"?

 

[Bad vibe]

Substitute "we'd" for "I'd" if you can find anyone here that gives any credence to your personal experience being evidence for anything other than a figment of your imagination.

 

[Limbo]

Substitute "we'd" for "I'd" if you can find anyone here that gives any credence to your personal experience being evidence for anything other than a figment of your imagination.

I think I might understand where you are coming from. Maybe bad vibes like you just aren't meant to be good vibes. Maybe you are 'damned'? Maybe you've lost your soul?

I have spent my life in the company of supernatural friends. For me, its a given. Over the years they have given me lots of reasons to believe that they are more than figments. I can hardly imagine what it would be like going through life like you guys do. I could pray for you, if you want. Maybe my good vibes attracts supernatural friends.

I've had several run-ins with UFOs over the years. Some have been group incidents and some have been just myself. I've been abducted by them and I've been in telepathic contact with them. That makes me what Jacques Vallee calls a 'UFO contactee'. It makes me what primitive peoples would call a shaman. As you may or may not know, the UFO phenomenon is real but it is ancient and mystical, not biological and technological in nature.

I've been to states of Nirvana consciousness that liberated me from the 'wheel of karma', thus making me the equivalent of a Buddha or a saint. What is the use of such states of being, you may ask? To someone like me who has tasted a full Kundalini awakening such a question as that is incredibly, utterly ridiculous.

 

[Brainache]

I think I might understand where you are coming from. Maybe bad vibes like you just aren't meant to be good vibes. Maybe you are 'damned'? Maybe you've lost your soul?

I have spent my life in the company of supernatural friends. For me, its a given. Over the years they have given me lots of reasons to believe that they are more than figments. I can hardly imagine what it would be like going through life like you guys do. Maybe my good vibes attracts supernatural friends.

I've had several run-ins with UFOs over the years. Some have been group incidents and some have been just myself. I've been abducted by them and I've been in telepathic contact with them. I'm what Jacques Vallee calls a 'UFO contactee'. As you may or may not know, the UFO phenomenon is real but its mystical, not biological in nature.

I've been to states of Nirvana consciousness that liberated me from the wheel of karma, thus making me the equivalent of a Buddha or a saint. What is the use of such states of being, you may ask? To someone like me who has tasted a full Kundalini awakening such a question is incredibly, utterly ridiculous.

Can I ask what you do for a living?

I sincerely hope it doesn't involve driving, or operating heavy machinery...

 

[Bad vibe]

Can I ask what you do for a living?

I sincerely hope it doesn't involve driving, or operating heavy machinery...

No kidding.

 

[Resume]

I have spent my life in the company of supernatural friends. For me, its a given. Over the years they have given me lots of reasons to believe that they are more than figments.

Figments will do that.

You shouldn't listen though. Bad road they are.

 

[tsig]

I think I might understand where you are coming from. Maybe bad vibes like you just aren't meant to be good vibes. Maybe you are 'damned'? Maybe you've lost your soul?

I have spent my life in the company of supernatural friends. For me, its a given. Over the years they have given me lots of reasons to believe that they are more than figments. I can hardly imagine what it would be like going through life like you guys do. I could pray for you, if you want. Maybe my good vibes attracts supernatural friends.

I've had several run-ins with UFOs over the years. Some have been group incidents and some have been just myself. I've been abducted by them and I've been in telepathic contact with them. That makes me what Jacques Vallee calls a 'UFO contactee'. It makes me what primitive peoples would call a shaman. As you may or may not know, the UFO phenomenon is real but it is ancient and mystical, not biological and technological in nature.

I've been to states of Nirvana consciousness that liberated me from the 'wheel of karma', thus making me the equivalent of a Buddha or a saint. What is the use of such states of being, you may ask? To someone like me who has tasted a full Kundalini awakening such a question as that is incredibly, utterly ridiculous.

Most of us grow out of the need for imaginary playmates and find real ones.

 

[Limbo]

No kidding.

An unprovoked jab at me eh? Well sooner or later, JREFers usually stop talking to me and start taking jabs instead so I guess I'm not surprised.