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Why didn't Jesus write anything down?

Incidentally, there is a Gospel Of Judas, with a rather interesting twist on the story indeed. There Judas isn't the betrayer, but the guy who was the most initiated by Jesus, so to speak, and who was only obeying Jesus's orders when he helped get Jesus nailed. Something which actually isn't too far off the mark even when you read the canonical gospels.

It seems to have been in circulation enough in the 2nd century to be one of the few that Irenaeus rants against.
 
The most important event in human history, if true, and no first-hand accounts, nothing from the principle. Impressive. (That anyone believes any of this.)

Pretty typical actualy. Julius caesar was unusual in writing significant works of his own. We don't have anything from Alexander the Great or Hannibal.

Even as recently as the 15th century Hernán Cortés was illiterate. I suspect its not until the 17th century that it became common for important people to write about their activities and for those writings to survive.
 
He couldn't be known as Jesus son of Joseph. That wouldn't fit the myth.
The most "mythical" of the gospels, the one that divinises Jesus most, calls him just that:
John 1:46 Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.
John 6:42 And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven?
 
Pretty typical actualy. Julius caesar was unusual in writing significant works of his own. We don't have anything from Alexander the Great or Hannibal.

Even as recently as the 15th century Hernán Cortés was illiterate. I suspect its not until the 17th century that it became common for important people to write about their activities and for those writings to survive.

Hernán Cortés was NOT illiterate. He had studied at the University of Salamanca and was described by one of his soldiers, Bernal Díaz del Castillo as ''latino''. That is, a person who knows Latin. Bernal himself, a common soldier, wrote Historia Verdadera de la Conquista de la Nueva España. Cortés was the author of 5 Cartas de Relación, written to justify his actions to Charles V. The following paragraph shows the quality of his 16th century Spanish prose.

Tiene esta ciudad muchas plazas donde hay continuo mercado y trato de comprar y vender. Tiene otra plaza tan grande como dos veces la ciudad de Salamanca, toda cercada de portales alrededor, donde hay cotidianamente arriba de sesenta mil ánimas comprando y vendiendo; donde hay todos los géneros de mercadurías que en todas las tierras se hallan, así de mantenimientos como de vituallas, joyas de oro y de plata, de plomo, de latón, de cobre, de estaño, de piedras, de huesos, de conchas, de caracoles y de plumas. Véndese cal, piedra labrada y por labrar, adobes, ladrillos, madera labrada y por labrar de diversas maneras. Hay calle de caza donde venden todos los linajes de aves que hay en la tierra, así como gallinas, perdices, codornices, lavancos, dorales, zarcetas, tórtolas, palomas, pajaritos en cañuela, papagayos, búharos, águilas, halcones, gavilanes y cernícalos; y de algunas de estas aves de rapiña, venden los cueros con su pluma y cabezas y pico y uñas.
 
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Back when I went to Sunday School the answer was simply that he was illiterate. Probably too simple, but it sort of answers the question.

Hmm, well, I can see how an atheist would take that answer, but it seems strange for Sunday School. As the OP says, Jesus is supposed to BE God according to most Trinitarians. An omniscient God who doesn't know how to read or write is a bit of a contradiction, innit?

Plus, the whole reason why anyone takes his platitudes seriously is because he's supposed to have some divine wisdom and insight there. If they're just the personal opinions of some illiterate laborer from the most backwater rural place of already backwater rural Galilee... well, we have millions of hair dressers and cabbies who think they know how the world should work and how it should be run? What makes Jesus any better than those, then? Heck, what makes him even their equal, since for better or worse those did get through a school system and might actually remember some of that?
 
That's an interesting angle, Hans - how living people of faith would react to the idea that Jesus may have been illiterate, almost as much fun as their reactions to the idea of his having been gay.

Anyway, Jesus' illiteracy is not the position of the canonical New Testament, so I am mystified as to what kind of "Sunday school" would teach that. As sleepy lioness mentioned, Jesus is depicted as writing on the ground during the "cast the first stone" pericope. The difficulty with the story is that it probably isn't part of the original John, however, it could easily have been part of the original Luke. In any case, it is canonical, and as old as anything else in the Gospels has been dated to be.

As far as Jesus' cognitive performance goes, reading might be more crucial than writing. This comes up all the time in Islamic counterapologetics: the "miracle" that "illiterate" Mohammed could "write" the Koran (and so, yes, drop-dead God of the gaps: Allah must have written it).

But, of course, Mohammed didn't write it, he recited it. So, all that needs to be explained is how the fractured fairy tale versions of stories from the earlier testaments ended up in his poems.

No miracle, of course. The earlier material was plausibly known in Arabic. Written Arabic is phonetic. Even if you cannot read fluently, but if you speak Arabic, then you need only learn the value of the relatively few letters and marks, and thereafter can "sound out" quite a lot of the written material that you encounter. "Illiterate," then, is not a categorical estate for reading in a culture with a phonetic alphabet, but a spectrum of achievement.

(Mohammed would also be another example of someone who wrote nothing of his own, he says, but whose religion teems with other people's stories about him, hadith. I really think that this strategy, and its demonstrated effectiveness, is a chief answer to the OP question.)

Jesus, then, wouldn't have to read fluently in order to acquire a working knowledge of what he spoke about, much of whch was commentary on the Hebrew Bible, some of it plainly not original with him. Also, we have no idea of what his teacher, John the Baptist, might have known about anything. Luke, of course, places the Baptist in a priestly family.

(John the Baptist is yet another example of a religious leader who wrote nothing of his own, as far as anybody knows, but is well known to us on account of what others wrote about him.)

Finally, there is the christology issue which you raise. Nicene Christianity (the usual kind) teaches that their guy died, really died. It is obvious, then, that the living Jesus is thought to have put aside some divine attributes in order to live as a man. The usual proof text is Paul's Philippians 2: 5-8:

Have among yourselves the same attitude that is also yours in Christ Jesus, Who, though he was in the form of God, did not regard equality with God something to be grasped. Rather, he emptied himself, taking the form of a slave, coming in human likeness; and found human in appearance, he humbled himself, becoming obedient to death, even death on a cross.

This, too, comes up in Islamic counterapologetics, since they believe religiously that to be God strictly implies not to be human. I am less sure why atheists would believe that, but many atheists who engage in Christian counteraplogetics apparently do, and so occasionally an atheist and a Muslim cannot be told apart based on the objections they raise to the Nicene Jesus.

Well, except that the atheist doesn't write "pbuh" after Jesus' name quite as often.
 
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Back when I went to Sunday School the answer was simply that he was illiterate. Probably too simple, but it sort of answers the question.
It unfortunately contradicts the Bible, which mentions Jesus writing on the ground. Of course if all he ever did was writing on the ground, then that is also an explanation for why none of his writings remain.
 
The Trinitarian doctrine that Jesus was God does not mean that Jesus was omniscient in his human aspect. This was a major conclusion which came out of the Arian controversy of the fourth century. Arius and his followers collected a slew of quotes from the Gospels which show Jesus being thirsty, tired, weak, not knowing things, etc. A notorious verse was Jn 11: 34, where Jesus has to ask where the body of Lazarus has been laid. Arius argued, if Jesus was God, why didn't he know? And so the Arians argued that Jesus was a lesser being than God.

The orthodox opponents of Arius argued that Jesus was God, but in order to become fully human he had in some way divested himself of many of the attributes of divinity, such as omniscience. If he hadn't, he wouldn't be able to be fully human. I think that Philippians 2: 1:13, the famous 'kenosis' passage, where it says that Jesus 'emptied himself' of Godhead, was used in support of this argument.

After this my knowledge gets a bit hazy, I'm not very good on philosophical theology, but I think that all the classic formulations of Trinitarianism agree that the earthly Jesus had in some way given up or suspended most of the divine attributes, such as omniscience, that he had when pre-existent with the Father and that he regained after his resurrection and ascension into heaven.
 
None of his disciples thought it worth writing anything down either. It was only when it became painfully obvious that Jesus' prediction of the end of the world in their lifetime wasn't going to happen that his followers finally realised that it might be a good idea to write his teachings down before all those who'd heard them were dead.
 
None of his disciples thought it worth writing anything down either. It was only when it became painfully obvious that Jesus' prediction of the end of the world in their lifetime wasn't going to happen that his followers finally realised that it might be a good idea to write his teachings down before all those who'd heard them were dead.
That is one theory.

My view is that in all probability the man never existed, at least as a historical person. In that case why we have none of his writings is obvious.

The main reason I think this is that the earliest Christian writings we have are the "genuine" Pauline epistles, and they seem to know nothing of a historical Jesus. Paul's Jesus did live on earth and was betrayed and resurrected, and so on, but in mythical time, not early in the first century. Paul knows nothing about the biographical details we get in the Gospels, even though in many cases we would think he would have referred to them.

We see Paul in the mid-first century leading and dealing with what seem to be well-established "Christian" churches all over the Greek diaspora -- especially Asia Minor. This is hardly twenty years after Jesus' supposed death, and well before any reported missions to them.

It seems more likely that what you have first is the rise of a Jesus-sacrificed-resurrected cult based on OT prophesies and after a number of other similar models active in the ancient world. This is not an earthly Jesus (except in mythical time) but a Jesus of the Heavens, about to return in glory (most new cults start off thinking they are in the end-time).

We need to resist the temptation of thinking that Christianity necessarily started just after the time of Jesus' death as told in the Gospels. It could well have been percolating a century or so even before Paul.

The stories of Jesus on Earth seem to have had two fairly independent origins -- the "Q" that preceded the synoptics, and another that led to (or was) the gospel attributed to John. The book that became Acts was probably written by the same person who wrote Luke, although from either lost material or de novo. He clearly knew of Paul, and may have drawn some things from Paul's earlier writings, but the figure in his narrative has little connection with the historical Paul. At any rate, whether or not these were percolating during Paul's time is hard to tell, but seemingly outside Paul's knowledge.

The evidence for this scenario is substantial. There is the absence of any knowledge of the Tetragrammaton in the NT, something inconceivable if the authors were Jews, but not if the authors were Greeks using the LXX, where the Tetragrammaton does not appear.

Also, there is the invention of the "city" of Nazareth, for which we have no mention in the Talmud, the OT, Josephus (who does a comprehensive listing of Galilean habitations) or any one else. (The place now known as Nazareth was founded by Constantine's mother in the fourth century). How could this happen? It appears to have been a misunderstanding of a passage in Isaiah mistaken as a name and place of origin (in the Greek pattern).

There are, of course, many other "errors" in the NT that reflect that the authors had no personal knowledge of the place, but only the sort of general knowledge I might have were I to write a narrative and place it in Afghanistan. One of the most egregious is the naive placement of herds of hogs in Palestine, something that would have generated riots.

Then of course we have the simple fact that it was all written in Greek, and reflects Greek modes of thinking (sometimes identified as neo-Platonic, although I doubt the authors were that educated). An awful lot of Christian ink has been spilled trying, not persuasively, to explain how fishermen from Galilee came to write these things in Greek.
 
No serious scholar has thought that the Gospels were written by 'fishermen from Galilee' for decades, perhaps centuries. The generally accepted view is that they are written versions of the traditions of particular early Christian communities, and those communities or traditions were particularly associated with the name of one early follower of Jesus.

Of course the New Testament reflects 'Greek' modes of thinking, since they are written in Greek, and since Hellenism was so widespread in the ancient world. All Jewish writings of the time show 'Greek' influences, and this wouldn't have been seen as a problem by the Jews who wrote them. The tendency to polarize 'Greek' or 'Hellenistic' vs 'Jewish' thought is an artefact of German nineteenth-century Biblical scholarship, when scholars decided that it was possible to strip off 'Greek' philosophical accretions and get back to a purer, 'Jewish' Jesus. But this is now considered bunk, since Jesus himself lived in a time and place which was thoroughly infused with 'Greek' ideas, and there was no 'pure' Jewish start to the tradition.

As for Jesus not existing, that's a position that no Biblical scholar or scholar of the ancient world, whether Christian, Jewish or agnostic takes seriously. We simply don't have the sorts of evidence for people's existence in the ancient world that we do for, say, Victorian times. Records have disappeared, even if they were kept. But the most parsimonious explanation for the sudden appearance of the Christ-cult is that there was a man who started it off. Paul's letters do say little about his earthly life, but Paul certainly believed Jesus had existed, and recently. See, for instance, 1 Cor 15: 3-10, where Paul gives a brief account of Jesus and includes the comments that he had been seen by named people, including Cephas (Peter) and James, who were real people he also mentions having fights with elsewhere. True, he adds himself to the list of people who've seen the risen Christ, in order to bolster his apostolic credentials, but you can't really read the passage without understanding it as Peter and James having been with Jesus during his earthly life and then 'seeing' him after his resurrection.
 
You didn't respond to any of the evidence I listed, but only engage in an argument by authority. Disappointing.
 
On the two points: I can't remember the arguments about 'Nazareth' and will look them up if I get time this week. Certainly the Gospels present contradictory ideas about Jesus's origin, with Luke giving a convoluted narrative of his birth in Bethlehem, in order to 'fulfill' a prophecy from Micah, and Mark having him come from Nazareth. The Mark reference, by the way, could just about be read as saying Jesus was a 'Nazarene' rather than that he came from Nazareth, and there is a theory that the Gospels present that Nazareth reference in order to state that Jesus was 'set apart' or 'consecrated' like the mysterious ascetic Nazarenes who are mentioned (if memory serves) in Leviticus and Judges. So both 'Bethlehem' and 'Nazareth' could be invented by the Gospel writers or the traditions they relied on, for religious rather than historical reasons.

That said, I think that it's actually far from proven that there was no settlement in Nazareth in the first century; there are no extra-Biblical textual references extant, but that doesn't mean much, and there certainly was settlement in the area of Galilee, so Jesus as Galilean, and possibly from a town called Nazareth, is by no means implausible.

I don't know why you think a herd of pigs would have 'caused riots' in Palestine in the first century. Scholars are still arguing massively about just how strictly ordinary Jews in the first century observed the Levitical laws. Some argue that they were only observed by priests. And Gentiles had always lived among the Jewish people. The Gerasene pigs could easily have been living in a Gentile community, as the story imples, and Gentiles were never compelled to follow Jewish law. The Gospels contain several stories of Jesus interacting with non-Jews. The story of pigs in a Gentile community in Palestine is not particularly implausible on the face of it.

To be clear, I am not arguing that the Gospels are historically accurate in every detail. Perhaps the Gerasene pigs never existed; perhaps Jesus came from somewhere else (intriugingly, there does seem to have been a contemporary Jewish idea that the origin of the Messiah would be unknown, and this is referenced in John's Gospel). I think it's unknowable just how much of the story they present is myth and how much is factual representation. But purely as a historian I think that the idea that there was a charismatic teacher who was the basis of that tradition is a much easier explanation than that it was all myth.

I haven't read it, but I understand that Bart Ehrman's book on the existence of a historical Jesus is very good, and of course he's an agnostic (and an excellent textual scholar of the New Testament).
 
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Hmm, well, I can see how an atheist would take that answer, but it seems strange for Sunday School. As the OP says, Jesus is supposed to BE God according to most Trinitarians. An omniscient God who doesn't know how to read or write is a bit of a contradiction, innit?

Plus, the whole reason why anyone takes his platitudes seriously is because he's supposed to have some divine wisdom and insight there. If they're just the personal opinions of some illiterate laborer from the most backwater rural place of already backwater rural Galilee... well, we have millions of hair dressers and cabbies who think they know how the world should work and how it should be run? What makes Jesus any better than those, then? Heck, what makes him even their equal, since for better or worse those did get through a school system and might actually remember some of that?
Oh, so suddenly contradictions are a problem for Christians? The whole idea of a poor peasant Jesus in a backwater area, living unheralded and dying on a cross, being the incarnation of God is pretty strange. Why not have him monolingual and illiterate too. If the character makes sense in the first place, that part fits in.

It unfortunately contradicts the Bible, which mentions Jesus writing on the ground. Of course if all he ever did was writing on the ground, then that is also an explanation for why none of his writings remain.

Not only that, but at least some biblical scholars surmise that the lost childhood only briefly touched on in Luke was spent as a scholar, which would explain a bit why so much of Jesus' vocabulary and rhetoric come from that literary tradition without the obvious intrusion of other authors. Of course being an illiterate speaker of only Aramaic then becomes a wee problem, but who are we to watch a grand story fly by and wonder "how does that thing stay up?" Next thing you know you'll be questioning the eternal virginity of the BVM and wondering how angels keep their gowns from riding up when they fly.
 
On the two points: I can't remember the arguments about 'Nazareth' and will look them up if I get time this week. Certainly the Gospels present contradictory ideas about Jesus's origin, with Luke giving a convoluted narrative of his birth in Bethlehem, in order to 'fulfill' a prophecy from Micah, and Mark having him come from Nazareth. The Mark reference, by the way, could just about be read as saying Jesus was a 'Nazarene' rather than that he came from Nazareth, and there is a theory that the Gospels present that Nazareth reference in order to state that Jesus was 'set apart' or 'consecrated' like the mysterious ascetic Nazarenes who are mentioned (if memory serves) in Leviticus and Judges. So both 'Bethlehem' and 'Nazareth' could be invented by the Gospel writers or the traditions they relied on, for religious rather than historical reasons.
While I prefer the Isaiah misreading theory, since it also gives us a source for "Jesus," what you say is reasonable.

That said, I think that it's actually far from proven that there was no settlement in Nazareth in the first century; there are no extra-Biblical textual references extant, but that doesn't mean much, and there certainly was settlement in the area of Galilee, so Jesus as Galilean, and possibly from a town called Nazareth, is by no means implausible.
You make me prove a negative. I only assert that there is no evidence for such a place until the forth century except Christian myth. Especially considering the absence from Josephus' lists, this is convincing evidence. Why do you bring up Galilee unless as a misdirection; it is not under discussion?

I don't know why you think a herd of pigs would have 'caused riots' in Palestine in the first century. Scholars are still arguing massively about just how strictly ordinary Jews in the first century observed the Levitical laws. Some argue that they were only observed by priests. And Gentiles had always lived among the Jewish people. The Gerasene pigs could easily have been living in a Gentile community, as the story imples, and Gentiles were never compelled to follow Jewish law. The Gospels contain several stories of Jesus interacting with non-Jews. The story of pigs in a Gentile community in Palestine is not particularly implausible on the face of it.
The whole story reads as a collection of bits and pieces jammed together into a redactive mess, typical when bits of poorly remembered oral myth are written down. My understanding sure is that pigs were not welcome in that part of the world, and there is no archaeological evidence for their husbandry, as there is from places like Asia Minor. This, however, is a rather trivial detail in that you already concede there are other similar problems in the text.

To be clear, I am not arguing that the Gospels are historically accurate in every detail. Perhaps the Gerasene pigs never existed; perhaps Jesus came from somewhere else (intriugingly, there does seem to have been a contemporary Jewish idea that the origin of the Messiah would be unknown, and this is referenced in John's Gospel). I think it's unknowable just how much of the story they present is myth and how much is factual representation. But purely as a historian I think that the idea that there was a charismatic teacher who was the basis of that tradition is a much easier explanation than that it was all myth.
I suppose ease trumps sometimes, but evidence always wins in the end.
 
I think it depends what your standards of evidence are. I'd certainly want more evidence to believe a certain Jewish teacher existed in Victorian England than in first-century Palestine. So much of ancient history is about saying 'we don't know' and trying to construct plausible arguments which, however, we simply can't ever prove to be true since we don't have the sources. But, given that we know charismatic Jewish teachers existed in first-century Palestine (there seems to have been a rash of them) and that the basic details of a bloke who lived, probably in Galilee, gathered a group of disciples who believed he was the Messiah, and who eventually annoyed the Romans and was executed by them, is hardly implausible, then I think my argument stands. I think it's harder to account for why a small group of Jews suddenly decided to behave in such unusual ways, without positing that they truly thought some of them had met and known the Messiah.
 
One point that I made briefly in my earlier post and that got skipped by both replies is the absence of any knowledge of the Tetragrammaton in the NT. I would like to detail that a little.

When I was a kid and the Jehovah's Witnesses came out with their version of the Bible, they made a deal about the fact that their version put "Jehovah" back in the Bible. They even put it into the NT, although only in places where it quotes a passage from the OT that contained a "Jehovah." (A bit outrageous since none of the mss contained it).

That set me puzzling on the absence. Now of course Jews of the time never said the word aloud -- it was not to be spoken. However, it was all over their Bibles, and readers were trained that whenever they came across it they were to substitute other words.

When the LXX was prepared, not wanting to blemish the Holy Name by rendering it in a language other than Hebrew, the same rule was adopted even in writing. Therefore someone reading only the LXX, and not an earlier Hebrew text, would have no clue.

Now, put that together with the apparent fact that the writers of the NT -- from Paul on down -- show no hint of any knowledge of even its existence? One would think, at a minimum, that the Jewish rule against its pronunciation aloud would at least come up, either to reject it as Jewish superstition or to confirm it as Christian practice.

(It is the absence of any guidance from the NT on this subject that allows more modern Christian groups to be all over the place on the subject).

This is perhaps not proof, but good evidence, that the earliest Christianity was an entirely Greek business, probably not even entering Palestine until later.
 
You know, there is also the very simple fact that there is no record of his existence outside the Christian texts. No one mentions this particular miracle worker, although, as you say, several others do seem to have existed and are mentioned.

The argument that someone had to start it just doesn't hold up. Lots of ancient movements have untraceable starts, and, as I mentioned earlier, once you get past thinking of the Gospels as history, one does not have to assign the traditional dates to the beginning of Christianity, but can imagine things like it percolating for centuries.
 

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