Why did we turn Afghanistan over to the Taliban?

[Jimbo07]

This article states that The Taliban is taking territory in the wake of NATO's withdrawal. This isn't just a U.S. issue. Many of us on this board belong to NATO countries. I'm assuming we followed, just because the U.S. is the big gun, but why are they out?

Another article said that Biden feels a total takeover by the Taliban isn't inevitable. I assume our leaders have access to much better intelligence than that held by the public. The last president didn't seem to care about intelligence, but what intelligence does the current president have that I don't?

My assumption, living through my country's commitment over the years (even serving during the early years - I knew others, but didn't go myself), with no public info to the contrary, is that we ARE turning it over to the Taliban.

Somebody here please, please, PLEASE change my mind.

 

[COLONEL]

Biden and all the other politicians are idiots, This was another Viet Nam. If they had allowed our military to go in and do what needed to be done, we could have gotten out years ago and the Taliban would be no more.

 

[Belz...]

They offered better interest rates.

 

[Kid Eager]

Imagine setting up your pieces on a chess board correctly, then claiming victory because you’re on the board. Meanwhile, your opponent looks at you and the chessboard then says “That’s cute - you think we’re playing chess”.

 

[Jimbo07]

Imagine setting up your pieces on a chess board correctly, then claiming victory because you’re on the board. Meanwhile, your opponent looks at you and the chessboard then says “That’s cute - you think we’re playing chess”.

If I get up from the table, do you promise to talk to my buddy instead of knocking over all the pieces? Pinky swear?

 

[catsmate]

Biden and all the other politicians are idiots, This was another Viet Nam. If they had allowed our military to go in and do what needed to be done, we could have gotten out years ago and the Taliban would be no more.

Yes, because that worked so well for the Soviets and the British....

Military force achieves no long-term solution; that requires time, effort and an actual, workable, plan. All of which the USAian effort lacked.

 

[gnome]

What "needed to be done" by our military that we were not engaged in already?

I don't think we're going to like the outcome... but I am not at all sure we could get a better one by staying.

 

[ServiceSoon]

It isn’t practical for the forces of the US or nato allies to police the world
based on a time table of perpetuity. Especially when this troops are needed elsewhere. Much support has been offered to the afghan people’s. It is their battle to wage. We will still continue to support them.

I’m sure that US intelligence is coordinating with NATO allies and if a point of singularity is identified they will step in.

 

[theprestige]

This article states that The Taliban is taking territory in the wake of NATO's withdrawal. This isn't just a U.S. issue. Many of us on this board belong to NATO countries. I'm assuming we followed, just because the U.S. is the big gun, but why are they out?

Another article said that Biden feels a total takeover by the Taliban isn't inevitable. I assume our leaders have access to much better intelligence than that held by the public. The last president didn't seem to care about intelligence, but what intelligence does the current president have that I don't?

My assumption, living through my country's commitment over the years (even serving during the early years - I knew others, but didn't go myself), with no public info to the contrary, is that we ARE turning it over to the Taliban.

Somebody here please, please, PLEASE change my mind.

Change my mind that we shouldn't turn it over to the Taliban, or to whatever other local faction is motivated to take it.

Change my mind that there are any other practical options that don't involve indefinite occupation and insurgency.

Change my mind that we have any standing to be there and decide who should have it anyway.

Like I said in the other thread:

Leave Afghanistan to the Afghanis. Whatever legitimate business the US military had there ended with severing of the Taliban-Bin Laden arrangement. Let Russia and Pakistan and Iran fight over it if they want.

Opium? Let it flow. America can't even manage drug traffic on its own borders. Poppy fields on the other side of the planet don't even matter. Sharia? As long as what happens in Taliban country stays in Taliban country, it's all good. America already plays nice with regimes that are just as bad.

 

[Jimbo07]

Change my mind that we shouldn't turn it over to the Taliban, or to whatever other local faction is motivated to take it.

Change my mind that there are any other practical options that don't involve indefinite occupation and insurgency.

Right? Go back and re-argue the whole darned conflict! Why do it in the first place, if you're not committed to indefinite occupation?

Change my mind that we have any standing to be there and decide who should have it anyway.

Like I said in the other thread:

Which one? I've come to this late and my quick search has let me down. Edit: the Biden presidency one? I think its own thread in this forum is appropriate, no?

 

[Delvo]

If they had allowed our military to go in and do what needed to be done, we could have gotten out years ago and the Taliban would be no more.

What "needed to be done" by our military that we were not engaged in already?

Killing them.

 

[TalosMarr]

Biden and all the other politicians are idiots, This was another Viet Nam. If they had allowed our military to go in and do what needed to be done, we could have gotten out years ago and the Taliban would be no more.

As Biden stated when making the withdrawal, the US was not in Afghanistan for a nation rebuilding effort.

The US was there to hunt terrorists, which they did. The US did not keep the Taliban designated as a terrorist organization as opposed to a government that supported or aided terrorists after a certain point; if they ever did designate it as a terrorist organization to begin with. The mission was to hunt terrorist cells indicated by intelligence and shoot the guys shooting at them. As such the Taliban wasn't generally part of the mission parameters to actively hunt down outside of direct insurgent activities.

This article states that The Taliban is taking territory in the wake of NATO's withdrawal. This isn't just a U.S. issue. Many of us on this board belong to NATO countries. I'm assuming we followed, just because the U.S. is the big gun, but why are they out?

Another article said that Biden feels a total takeover by the Taliban isn't inevitable. I assume our leaders have access to much better intelligence than that held by the public. The last president didn't seem to care about intelligence, but what intelligence does the current president have that I don't?

My assumption, living through my country's commitment over the years (even serving during the early years - I knew others, but didn't go myself), with no public info to the contrary, is that we ARE turning it over to the Taliban.

Somebody here please, please, PLEASE change my mind.

As far as NATO goes, they helped build a new government in Afghanistan out of the goodness of their hearts (for their pocketbooks; mostly US based) and if that Afghan body can't govern without them at this point it's not NATO's problem anymore. If that isn't enough, there is not a force large enough, well equipped enough, or has enough political will behind it to continue the Afghanistan campaign without major US troop involvement. There's also the problem of NATO forces piggy backing US logistics and bases for their operations, without a major increase in logistics and bases from NATO forces in general they really wouldn't have a significant foothold; NATO was welcome to join US Ops, but the US Ops were not NATO Ops and the US is taking it's toys (or at least most of them) when they go. Basically the rest of NATO only goes where the US does because member nations haven't maintained an expeditionary military force collectively large enough to handle a problem area as large as Afghanistan along with already existing obligations.

Biden's thinking RE:The Taliban seems to be based on the rebuilt Afghani government being able to hold their own against the resurging Taliban to some degree. They've had training, have experience alongside US and NATO forces, and have decent equipment; now it's just a matter of the Afghan people not supporting the Taliban and having the will to fight a civil war.

If the NATO aided Afghans fail without support then yes you could make the argument that NATO effectively ceded the country back to the Taliban, but I haven't seen anything saying NATO will no longer be aiding the Afghan government just that the boots on the ground are being recalled. I'd wager that the US on it's own is still going to be lobbing cruise missiles or having drone strikes into the area on the regular for quite a while after withdrawal anyway, at least if our behavior elsewhere in the region is any indication anywho.

 

[dudalb]

This article states that The Taliban is taking territory in the wake of NATO's withdrawal. This isn't just a U.S. issue. Many of us on this board belong to NATO countries. I'm assuming we followed, just because the U.S. is the big gun, but why are they out?

Another article said that Biden feels a total takeover by the Taliban isn't inevitable. I assume our leaders have access to much better intelligence than that held by the public. The last president didn't seem to care about intelligence, but what intelligence does the current president have that I don't?

My assumption, living through my country's commitment over the years (even serving during the early years - I knew others, but didn't go myself), with no public info to the contrary, is that we ARE turning it over to the Taliban.

Somebody here please, please, PLEASE change my mind.

I am generally a supporter of Biden, but IMHO his thinking that the Taliaban is not going to take over is pretty naive.

 

[dudalb]

Biden and all the other politicians are idiots, This was another Viet Nam. If they had allowed our military to go in and do what needed to be done, we could have gotten out years ago and the Taliban would be no more.

Don't know much about the Vietnam war, do you?
We lost Vietnam because the Government we supported in the South was incredibly inept and corrupt,and no matter how much firepower we applied, nothing changed that.
Same situation in Afghanistan. Though I am afraid the Afghanistan being taken over by the Taliaban is going to have bad consquences for the US that the fall of Vietnam did not have.

 

[rdwight]

I love this idea that the military was held back over the last 20 years. Each general that took over probably gave the same speech, only to be replaced with the same progress. We've trained over 300k troops. Spent trillions of dollars. If they can't hold their own territory, they don't want to.

I would have loved if Trump had enough focus to get us out during his term, and I am glad Biden is finally getting it done.

 

[dudalb]

Yes, because that worked so well for the Soviets and the British....

Military force achieves no long-term solution; that requires time, effort and an actual, workable, plan. All of which the USAian effort lacked.

You know, that some of us think that using USAian instead of American is, frankly, a way ot showing contempt for the US.

 

[dudalb]

I love this idea that the military was held back over the last 20 years. Each general that took over probably gave the same speech, only to be replaced with the same progress. We've trained over 300k troops. Spent trillions of dollars. If they can't hold their own territory, they don't want to.

I would have loved if Trump had enough focus to get us out during his term, and I am glad Biden is finally getting it done.

And if Afghanistan becomes a base of operation for ISIS, Al Qaida and the like?
I am not convinced that the Taliaban has really learned it's lesson here.
The struggle with Islamic Extremism is going to on for a long time. And it will be impossible for the US to walk away from it.

 

[dudalb]

What "needed to be done" by our military that we were not engaged in already?

I don't think we're going to like the outcome... but I am not at all sure we could get a better one by staying.

I can see withdrawing from a direct combat role, not so sure about a total withdrawal.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Biden and all the other politicians are idiots, This was another Viet Nam. If they had allowed our military to go in and do what needed to be done, we could have gotten out years ago and the Taliban would be no more.

What needed to be done that wasn't done by the military?

 

[rdwight]

And if Afghanistan becomes a base of operation for ISIS, Al Qaida and the like?
I am not convinced that the Taliaban has really learned it's lesson here.
The struggle with Islamic Extremism is going to on for a long time. And it will be impossible for the US to walk away from it.

Then them the breaks. We could spend another 10 years and the same issues will remain or be worse. There is no plan to 'win'. At this rate a war that started when I just became eligible for the army will still being going on when my kids reach enlistment age. And the same talking point of just a little more time will still be spouted by people that profit or have nothing at risk by continuing this fight. I'll take the risk of terrorist activity over that and a bunch of other policies that were implemented after 9/11. Time for things to start rolling back. Let's start here.