Why did God create the tree of knowledge?

Iacchus said:
What we are talking about are immutable laws here. And yes, immutable laws do have a relationship with other immutable laws.
What then is that relationship?

Perfection is like the glue which holds the Universe together. Without it, we would not be here.

I thought it was Gravity, Electromagnatism, and the Strong and Weak Nuclear Forces.

Explain how it works under "perfection"


What is that? Am not altogether familiar with that either? ;)

That's the really frustrating part of your self-imposed ignorance, it is the fact that you do not realise all these wonderful ideas you've come up with have been done before.
 
Radrook said:
Accusing God of being in league with the Devil has absolutely no scriptural support and is a concept completely alien to both Judaism and Christianity.

Where did you derive it from--the Satanic Bible?

Job 1:12 - "12: And the LORD said to Satan, "Behold, all that he has is in your power; only upon himself do not put forth your hand." So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD."
 
Radrook said:
... and as it is generally agreed among biblical scholars of all Christian denominations, it was a spirit son of God called Lucifer who decided to use the serpent as a puppet.

As an ex- devout Methodist, I can assure you that that statement is NOT true for that denomination.

How can you presume to speak for every biblical scholar?
 
Piscivore said:

What then is that relationship?
Jeeze, do I have to know everything?


I thought it was Gravity, Electromagnatism, and the Strong and Weak Nuclear Forces.

Explain how it works under "perfection"
Just human definitions for that which already exists.


That's the really frustrating part of your self-imposed ignorance, it is the fact that you do not realise all these wonderful ideas you've come up with have been done before.
Frustrating to whom? Maybe that's what makes it more fun? Am just learning as I go anyway, so?
 
Iacchus said:
Jeeze, do I have to know everything?

You are expected to be able to explain yourself when you make statements like "immutable laws do have a relationship with other immutable laws."


Just human definitions for that which already exists.

No, the Fundamental Forces are specific things, "perfection" is an abstract concept.

Explain how Perfection is like the glue which holds the Universe together. Without it, we would not be here" works.

Frustrating to whom? Maybe that's what makes it more fun?

It was funny at first- as you go on it's just sorta sad. That's why I stopped posting on your forum.
 
Piscivore said:

You are expected to be able to explain yourself when you make statements like "immutable laws do have a relationship with other immutable laws."
Are you saying you can't see this for yourself? I only speak of it because it's self-evident.


No, the Fundamental Forces are specific things, "perfection" is an abstract concept.

Explain how Perfection is like the glue which holds the Universe together. Without it, we would not be here" works.
You will never be able to learn unless it goes beyond the ability to just repeat things.


It was funny at first- as you go on it's just sorta sad. That's why I stopped posting on your forum.
The funny thing is, there really isn't a whole lot to say. ;)
 
Radrook said:
Your conclusion is wrong because your premise is untrue.
The serpent was merely another animal in Eden.
As I have repeatedly explained, and as it is generally agreed among biblical scholars of all Christian denominations, it was a spirit son of God called Lucifer who decided to use the serpent as a puppet.
A minor detail. That Lucifer was created by God, wasn't he?

"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things." (Isaiah 45:7)
Accusing God of being in league with the Devil has absolutely no scriptural support and is a concept completely alien to both Judaism and Christianity.
I prefer to make sense of the story than be consistent with any organized religion.

Of course it is not entirely inconsistent with some interpretations:
It is evident from the prologue that Satan has no power of independent action, but requires the permission of God, which he may not transgress. Satan is not an opponent of God. (snip) In both of these passages Satan is a mere accuser who acts only according to the permission of the Deity.
 
Earthborn said:
A minor detail. That Lucifer was created by God, wasn't he?

Again you are mistaken.
Gid created the angel Lucifer.
But Licifer was a righteius angel.
It was his misuse of freedom of choice that turned him into Satan and Devil liar and slanderer.

"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things." (Isaiah 45:7)I prefer to make sense of the story than be consistent with any organized religion.

You are misunderstanding the scripture. Scripture does not exist in a vacuum. Scripture has context which the reader is expected to bring to bear when he reads it. Neithyer is the word "evil" the word chosen by most modern translations. In fact, the New King James Version uses calamity and for good reason since it better conveys the meaning of what was written and is one of the options which the original Hebrew word allows accirding to the King James Version Hebrew Lexicon.

Of course it is not entirely inconsistent with some interpretations: [/B][/QUOTE]

As soon as I see wikipedia I imediately back off because of oits association with the occult.

BTW
It is not your right to seek your own explanations that is in question here. It is the explantion itself which you put forth as fact.
 
Earthborn said:
A minor detail. That Lucifer was created by God, wasn't he?

Again you are mistaken.
Gid created the angel Lucifer.
But Licifer was a righteius angel.
It was his misuse of freedom of choice that turned him into Satan and Devil liar and slanderer.

"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things." (Isaiah 45:7)I prefer to make sense of the story than be consistent with any organized religion.

You are misunderstanding the scripture.
 
Earthborn said:
A minor detail. That Lucifer was created by God, wasn't he?

Again you are mistaken.
Gid created the angel Lucifer.
But Licifer was a righteius angel.
It was his misuse of freedom of choice that turned him into Satan and Devil liar and slanderer.

"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things." (Isaiah 45:7)I prefer to make sense of the story than be consistent with any organized religion.

You are misunderstanding the scripture.
 
Earthborn said:
A minor detail. That Lucifer was created by God, wasn't he?

Again you are mistaken.
Gid created the angel Lucifer.
But Licifer was a righteius angel.
It was his misuse of freedom of choice that turned him into Satan and Devil liar and slanderer.

"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things." (Isaiah 45:7)I prefer to make sense of the story than be consistent with any organized religion.

You are misunderstanding the scripture. Scripture does not exist in a vacuum. Scripture has context which the reader is expected to bring to bear when he reads it. Neithyer is the word "evil" the word chosen by most modern translations. In fact, the New King James Version uses calamity and for good reason since it better conveys the meaning of what was written and is one of the options which the original Hebrew word allows accirding to the King James Version Hebrew Lexicon.

Of course it is not entirely inconsistent with some interpretations: [/B][/QUOTE]

As soon as I see wikipedia I imediately back off because of oits association with the occult.

BTW
It is not your right to seek your own explanations that is in question here. It is the explantion itself which you put forth as fact.
 
Radrook said:




You are misunderstanding the scripture. Scripture does not exist in a vacuum. Scripture has context which the reader is expected to bring to bear when he reads it. Neithyer is the word "evil" the word chosen by most modern translations. In fact, the New King James Version uses calamity and for good reason since it better conveys the meaning of what was written and is one of the options which the original Hebrew word allows accirding to the King James Version Hebrew Lexicon.


And you are playing the

" Your interpretation of the Bible doesn't agree with mine, so you must be taking it out of context.. "

game...


We see it all the time, and in a much more learned presentation than anything you have achieved so far...


Problems with "Reconciling" Contradictions


Whenever a passage suggesting questionable theology surfaces, defenders of fundamentalism will reply that one cannot read the Bible verse by verse, and insist that one must read the whole Bible to "truly" understand it.

Lastly, what fundamentalists do when they suggest that certain passages should not say what they "appear" to mean is perpetuate the idea that the Bible writers often did not mean what they said. It is completely arbitrary to suggest that Bible writers did not mean what they said only in areas where there are "alleged" contradictions and errors. What, did the rules of writing suddenly get suspended in areas where there is an alleged contradiction? If the Bible writers did not mean what they said in one place, they could theoretically not mean what they said in other places.
 
Piscivore said:


Job 1:12 - "12: And the LORD said to Satan, "Behold, all that he has is in your power; only upon himself do not put forth your hand." So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD."

Your interpretation goes completely contrary to the Biblical context. Satan is God's archenemy. From the very beginning he was viewed as a threat to mankind and an affront to God's sovereignty. Right there in Eden an anti Satanic judicial pronouncement was uttered.

Using the serpent as a symbol of he who had used it as a puppet, God said:

Genesis 3:
14 So the LORD God said to the serpent, "Because you have done this,

"Cursed are you above all the livestock
and all the wild animals!
You will crawl on your belly
and you will eat dust
all the days of your life.
15 And I will put enmity
between you and the woman,
and between your offspring [1] and hers;
he will crush [2] your head,
and you will strike his heel."


The eating of dust and serpentine posture symbolizes Satan's debasement--his fall from a prominent angelic position to that of rebel. The seed mentioned is Jesus. The biting of the heal is the crucifixion in which Satan inflicted suffering. The smashing of the head is Satan's ultimate destruction at the hands of that seed.

The blow to the head is described in Revelation.
Here is a partial description:


Revelation 20
1. And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain. 2. He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years.


So the scenario described in Job cannot describe God as being in league with a rebel son who he had previously condemned to death.
In fact, the exchange between Satan and Yahweh is totally antagonistic. His manner toward Yahweh is disrespectful.

His challenge made before the whole assembly of angels is rife with deep contempt of those who worship him.

His accusation that creatures do not really love him God but only what material things he provides, is an accusation of God's need to buy love because God cannot get love any other way.

He also accuses mankind of always obeying God out of selfishness.

Whereupon God points to Job as an example of a man who loves him unselfishly.

In short, in this brief encounter Satan calls God a liar and predicts that Job will curse God in his face if Job encounters any difficulties.

In response to this effrontery, God permits the testing of Job in order to prove Satan a liar.

John 8:44
You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

NIV

BTW
If Satan and God were in league then why did the demons scream in terror when Jesus approached? When people are partners they don't react that way to one another.

Mark 5:
1.They went across the lake to the region of the Gerasenes.[1] 2.When Jesus got out of the boat, a man with an evil[2] spirit came from the tombs to meet him.

6. When he saw Jesus from a distance, he ran and fell on his knees in front of him. 7.He shouted at the top of his voice, "What do you want with me, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? Swear to God that you won't torture me!" 8. For Jesus had said to him, "Come out of this man, you evil spirit!"
9.Then Jesus asked him, "What is your name?"
10. "My name is Legion," he replied, "for we are many." And he begged Jesus again and again not to send them out of the area.

That is definitely a weird partnership if there ever was one.

IMHO
 
Piscivore said:


As an ex- devout Methodist, I can assure you that that statement is NOT true for that denomination.

How can you presume to speak for every biblical scholar?

I should have qualified my statement with the modifier "most"
Thanks for pointing out that error.
 
Earthborn said:
A minor detail. That Lucifer was created by God, wasn't he?
Radrook said:
Again you are mistaken.
Gid created the angel Lucifer.
But Licifer was a righteius angel.
It was his misuse of freedom of choice that turned him into Satan and Devil liar and slanderer.

Person 1: "God created Lucifer, right?"
Person 2: "No, you are mistaken. God created Lucifer".

Oooookay.

Btw, when God created the angel he knew that this angel would turn against him. You know, being omniscient and all. So God created Satan because he wanted to create that being. He has the full resposibility.
 
Radrook said:
Your interpretation goes completely contrary to the Biblical context. Satan is God's archenemy. From the very beginning he was viewed as a threat to mankind and an affront to God's sovereignty. Right there in Eden an anti Satanic judicial pronouncement was uttered.

How can an omniscient, omnipotent being have an "arch-enemy"? How could any lesser being be a threat to mankind and an affront to God's sovereignty unless God allows it?

The whole concept of Satan makes no sense.
 

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