Why did every Frank Herburt Dune book after the first suck?

[MinnesotaBrant]

I think that sequels often need to be pruned. Look at the Harry Potter books. Do you see Harry around running the planet after 8 sequels? Still though it made money.

 

[angrysoba]

I only read first book, and I hated it so much I never finished it.

Two reasons that I can remember:

1. I could not stand the whole mysticsm thing.

2. I hate romanticising of nomadic warrior cultures. Nomadic warriors, at least ones with remote resemblance to Fremen (or to any romaicised version in any book you care to name) are NASTY. Apaches, Monglos, Beduins, you name it; it's impossible to top their cruelty -- towards their enemies, their slaves, their women and toward each other. Those are cultures whose destruction at the hands of Europeans I unreservedly cheered. Seeing them portrayed as good guys just makes me puke.

Oh dear. I seriously hope that's a demented joke.

 

[TsarBomba]

I thought that Chapterhouse Dune was the second best of the entire six-book Dune series. Herbert ties thousands of years of future history up in an exciting story. Almost as good as the original Dune, but just almost.

 

[IDB87]

I only read first book, and I hated it so much I never finished it.

Two reasons that I can remember:

1. I could not stand the whole mysticsm thing.

2. I hate romanticising of nomadic warrior cultures. Nomadic warriors, at least ones with remote resemblance to Fremen (or to any romaicised version in any book you care to name) are NASTY. Apaches, Monglos, Beduins, you name it; it's impossible to top their cruelty -- towards their enemies, their slaves, their women and toward each other. Those are cultures whose destruction at the hands of Europeans I unreservedly cheered. Seeing them portrayed as good guys just makes me puke.

Sure..I'll take the bait.

1 - YMMV.

2 - The Fremen were never portrayed as 'good guys'. The only thing that really sticks out for me is that they had a system of Honor that Paul identified as being a good foundation for forming an army he could use, which he did with great success. In fact, because they were so deadly and 'savage', Gaius Helen Mohiam pleaded with Paul not to unleash the Fremen on the universe in his Jihad - and Paul reminded her of the Sardaukar who terrorized Dune, who were described as vicious unrelenting and savage soldiers. The parallel between the Fremen and the Sardaukar is drawn, so there's your answer.

 

[IDB87]

Delete

 

[dudalb]

I keep on reading that "Dune Messiah" was written to be the final part of "Dune", but the publishers made Herbert cut it because they did not want the novel, which was already pretty risky to publish back in 1965, to have such a downer of an ending. Only after it was a great success and they were looking for a sequel was it published. Is this story true or not?
I Liked the original trilogy, but think the quality went down after that. Herbert was obviously milking the cash cow.
But although dissapoingting, the later Hebert novels are masterpieces compared to the crap his son is putting out.
Sometimes a writer's child can continue in there fathers footsteps...Jeff Sharra comes to mind. Herbert's son is no Jeff Sharra.

 

[RVM45]

.....The New Age undercurrent to Dune was hard to get into, however, as was the overt sexism. "Try looking into that place you dare not look, you will see me standing there!" Women were, for the most part, sneaking, conniving, weak little dears, run by their "mothers-in-laws", like Helen Gaius Mohian. (SP?)

And this is unrealistic.....How???

.....RVM45

 

[Dinwar]

I'd say that the sequals don't have a fair shot. I read the House ____ books before the original Dune, and enjoyed them. Sure, they're heavy on the "fiction" part of "science fiction", but entertaining none the less. I'll admit the Butlerian Jihad books are annoying, but that's just because I have little patience for arristocrats lounging around during a massive war which they're loosing badly (nor do I really like the "Robots are going to destroy humanity" trope; at least they tried to deal with the fact that robots and humans could EASILY engage in resource partitioning, which is better than most, but that's only because hand-waving is more than most do). Same with the rest of the Dune series--each as a single book is an interesting scifi read. I think a lot of people want the new novels to be Dune, and won't accept anything else.

In short, my question is are we asking why the books aren't good, or are we asking why they're not Dune?

 

[Almo]

I would argue that all of the core 6 books were good. They're very different, but good.

 

[Babbylonian]

I've tried 3 times to get through God Emperor of Dune, without success. I liked the first three, though the original book is pretty far above the others.

 

[Beelzebuddy]

Why did every Frank Herbert Dune book after the first suck?

Same reason Homeworld 2 sucked.
Same reason the Matrix sequels sucked.

Whenever a tight and well composed story with religious/mystical elements becomes a success, somehow people become convinced that it's the religious/mystical elements that everyone liked the most. So the next time they lay it on so thick it sours the palate.

 

[Morrigan]

I've tried 3 times to get through God Emperor of Dune, without success. I liked the first three, though the original book is pretty far above the others.

You should give the last two a chance, they're pretty good. I agree with you that God-Emperor is horribly tedious, though. I finished it, but only because a friend swore that it was worth it for the rest, though to be honest you can probably skip most of it.

 

[CplFerro]

Dear MNBrant,

Dune presented itself as being written by a man who Knew Things. In a limited horizon, almost anyone can come across like this. With a sufficiently distant horizon, however, it becomes increasingly clear, as in Herbert's case, that he didn't Know as much as he was purporting. His writing became clogged with pseudo-intellectual bombast where everyone is trying to out-frame the situation with an ever-more-profound take on the chaos of history. You either groove on it as if you're surfing the web, or you gag on it and find someone who does Know Something.

Cpl Ferro

 

[MinnesotaBrant]

Dear MNBrant,

Dune presented itself as being written by a man who Knew Things. In a limited horizon, almost anyone can come across like this. With a sufficiently distant horizon, however, it becomes increasingly clear, as in Herbert's case, that he didn't Know as much as he was purporting. His writing became clogged with pseudo-intellectual bombast where everyone is trying to out-frame the situation with an ever-more-profound take on the chaos of history. You either groove on it as if you're surfing the web, or you gag on it and find someone who does Know Something.

Cpl Ferro

Yeah, writing for money sucks.

 

[CAC Wirraway]

This might date me but when I read Dune back in high school it was a life changing experience. Frank took the trouble to create a believable world with a life of its own. Why then did every sequel to the Dune book suck? Is Frank Herburt still alive so I can go ask him?

I think he was a mediocre writer who got kissed by the muse once, and after Dune, he reverted to mediocrity. this really evident in the later sequels, where he's just going through the motions required by his contract.

most of his other work is just unreadable, choked in jargon that clutters the narrative.

 

[Monketi Ghost]

I think he was a mediocre writer who got kissed by the muse once, and after Dune, he reverted to mediocrity. this really evident in the later sequels, where he's just going through the motions required by his contract.

most of his other work is just unreadable, choked in jargon that clutters the narrative.

I rather liked White Plague...

 

[CAC Wirraway]

I rather liked White Plague...

yeah.. I don't want to short his skills as a writer, considering he's published a lot of stuff. maybe Dune just really outshines everything else.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Just watched Dune again and it reminded of that line in the book: "They call us concubines, but history will call us wives." Sheesh, it was Jessica's gutsy call that created Paul in the first place. She should get a little more than "wifey" status for that.

 

[thrombus29]

Whipping Star was good, kinda cosmic S&M.

 

[Pacal]

Those were the ones where there's an invasion of sex goddesses who enslave men with their awesome sexual skills, right? Then it turns out that the only way to stop the invasion is to train the ultimate stud to enslave the sex goddesses right back with his own awesome skills in the sack?

Thought-provoking stuff.

Thanks for bringing back the memory - NOT!!

I enjoyed Dune mainly for its world creation aspects. I found Dune Messiah an ordeal to read and simply BAD! I thought Children of Dune was an masive improvement on Dune Messiah and I really enjoyed God-Emperor of Dune. I tried reading the sequels and frankly you would have to pay me to get me to completely read them.