Why did certain religions ban pork?

... but the "illiterate iron age goatherds" had no ability to observe a correlation between pigs, tapeworm, and pork

Even assuming that they did observe the correlation, how does that explain the rest of the dietary laws?

I have not read every post in this thread, but I believe someone mentioned that meat must be consumed immediately upon the animal's being killed.

That's not quite true. There is a requirement that the meat be soaked and salted to remove the blood from the flesh; not a quick process.
 
... but the "illiterate iron age goatherds" had no ability to observe a correlation between pigs, tapeworm, and pork ?

I said exactly the opposite earlier in the thread and I even used the word "empiricism" in that respect.

So right now have no idea what you're talking about, unless you were being ironic in that "Newton invented empiricism" comment.
 
... but the "illiterate iron age goatherds" had no ability to observe a correlation between pigs, tapeworm, and pork ?

Double standards.

And what about beef tapeworms? Or tapeworms in sheep?

There's nothing special about pigs with tapeworms.

ETA: and that had already been discussed in the thread. It helps if you do that before reiterating the same discussion.
 
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This is a startelingly familiar argument to me. Many arguments like this have happened in paleontology. If I may be so bold, I'd like to offer a few insights from my field's experience:

1) Don't confuse answering "What benefit does this have?" with "Why did this occur?" Often benefits are only realized after something occurs; the actual reason for the occurance can be something else entirely, even something detrimental. For example, even if tapeworms were known to come from pig meat, it may be that the ancient Jews forbad eating pigs for some other reason entirely, such as a disease that wiped out all their pigs (removing them from their diet). Or it could be that pigs were an accidental victim of a ban intended to hit some other animal entirely. And we ARE dealing with religion here; looking for answers that make sense to a secular mind isn't the best way to go about it. The question is, what was the reason for banning various animals? While benefits may be helpful in finding the answer, they are not answers themselves.

Which brings me to my second point....

2) Go to the source. The only way to answer this effecitvely is to go to the archaeological record of the time when Jews banned certain animals from their diets and see what was going on. Modern knowledge is quite irrelevant; you have to look at this from the perspective of the Jews at that time. Who were they fighting? Who were they allied with? What were the economic forces? What was their religion like? Otherwise, you end up very quickly answering the quite irrelevant question of "Why would *I* ban eating pork?" (I'm not trying to insult anyone here; we ALL fall into that trap if we're not careful, it's a function of human cognition).

JabbaPapa said:
... but the "illiterate iron age goatherds" had no ability to observe a correlation between pigs, tapeworm, and pork ?

Double standards.
The fact that one has a tool in no way implies that one uses it consistantly or accurately. It's no double-standard; it merely means that they did something different that time. Humans aren't simple creatures, which is one reason I stuck with paleontology. The problem is made even worse when dealing with what we now consider medicine, because that was entirely in the realm of mysticism at the time, and thus it's easily possible for the peoples of the time to apply criteria that are completely alien to our own understanding of how things work. The Enlightenment included men very well-versed in physics and causal relationships, yet bleeding of patients was still a very common medical procedure due to the medical paradigm. A similar paradigm difference between us and ancient Jews could render thier concept of causal relationships in regard to tapeworms nearly unintelligeable to us (no insult to them; it's an issue of discussion between paradigms, not one being smarter or stupider than the other).
 
Does anyone know of similar prohibitions (not just food) in newer religions where we might still be able to see how they arose? Mormons, Scientologists, Raelians, others?

I know this doesn't mean that ancient religion food taboos arose the same way, but I think it would still shed light on the issue.

Perhaps the Mormons and coffee/tea?

Very good, I hadn't thought of that. Now, does anyone know how coffee/tea got the ban in Mormonism?

This at least feels like a way forward instead of all the guessing.
 
Very good, I hadn't thought of that. Now, does anyone know how coffee/tea got the ban in Mormonism?

This at least feels like a way forward instead of all the guessing.

My understanding is that they ban all mind-altering chemicals, or at least that was the intent.

While not a ban, the neo-pagan religions often include a strong push towards vegitarianism. It's supposed to bring you closer to nature or something; the justifications are rather vague.
 
I will say it again:

The dietary laws are not only about restricting pork. Please, if we are going to discuss this, why not discuss the entirety of the restrictions? Why focus on pork? Why not discuss the restriction on whales, or grasshoppers? Or lobster? Or musk oxen? Or even whether tomatoes are kosher. There was a debate about this in 17th century rabbinical circles.
 
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Very good, I hadn't thought of that. Now, does anyone know how coffee/tea got the ban in Mormonism?

This at least feels like a way forward instead of all the guessing.

I went to "ask a Mormon" and asked. A missionary quoted me something about not putting hot drinks in the body as the genesis for the taboo. He said it was considered something Joseph Smith got straight from a divine source, so to answer the question for Mormons we would have to get inside of Joe's head in a way that was detailed enough to tease out something about hot beverages. In other words, I still don't know why.

Maybe there is no why to be had.
 
I went to "ask a Mormon" and asked. A missionary quoted me something about not putting hot drinks in the body as the genesis for the taboo. [snip] In other words, I still don't know why.

Maybe there is no why to be had.

If his explanation were true, hot water would be okay, as would hot water and for instance lemon juice.

Incidentally, I once sold a house to a Chinese family and had a friend of a friend with me at the negotiation as an interpreter; she was Buddhist.

Afterward, I took her to lunch at ... a Chinese restaurant. She ordered only bland food. When I asked if she didn't like hot, she said that in (her version of) Buddhism, one avoided hot foods to prevent heating of the emotions.
 
I said exactly the opposite earlier in the thread and I even used the word "empiricism" in that respect.

So right now have no idea what you're talking about, unless you were being ironic in that "Newton invented empiricism" comment.

OK, I didn't realise your sarcasm monitor was set to zero.

Consequentially, we're talking at 180° cross purposes ...
 
My understanding is that they ban all mind-altering chemicals, or at least that was the intent.

While not a ban, the neo-pagan religions often include a strong push towards vegitarianism. It's supposed to bring you closer to nature or something; the justifications are rather vague.

It's an interesting hold over from one of those older paradigms of medicine, traces back to idea of humors and for example certain foods heating the blood. It's astonishing how this one lingers into current day, it's like the fresh air idea, and "starve a cold feed a fever" (may have that the wrong way around).
 
Not according to the medical people it isn't, most people don't apparently have any symptoms.

It's not just that either. There's a lag time involved which might interfere with any cause and effect construct. "Jim's sick. Well, what did he eat/do recently?"

"I think he blasphemed the other day and last week he ate pork."

"Well then, there you go. Worms are God's punishment for blasphemy."
 
I will say it again:

The dietary laws are not only about restricting pork. Please, if we are going to discuss this, why not discuss the entirety of the restrictions? Why focus on pork? Why not discuss the restriction on whales, or grasshoppers? Or lobster? Or musk oxen? Or even whether tomatoes are kosher. There was a debate about this in 17th century rabbinical circles.

Whales are easy to explain - tapeworms 10s of metres long!
 
the actual reason for the occurance can be something else entirely, even something detrimental. For example, even if tapeworms were known to come from pig meat, it may be that the ancient Jews forbad eating pigs for some other reason entirely

Correct. :)
 

Not sure what you think I'm agreeing with you about. I'm saying that even if you're right about Jews knowing the link between undercooked pork and tapeworms (and assuming they could figure out the difference in hazard between pork and beef in regards to those particular parasites), it may be an irreelvant factor here. Religion is like sexual selection: "Because the ladies like it/Because God likes it" are entirely sufficient justifications for pretty much anything in those two situations. I'm certainly not saying that Jews understood the life cycle of an intestinal parasite.

xterra said:
Why focus on pork?
It's the most widely known, is all. The fact that there were multiple foods banned by the Jewish laws is actually an indication that they exist independent of any benefits derived from the bans, in my opinion. There's simply no reason to ban a lot of the things that were banned, as far as health is concerned--and some of the things not banned have some risks associated with them. Whether or not the food is easily prepared (which is the problem with tapeworms--you CAN cook them to death, you just have to do it properly) doesn't seem to be an issue.
 
It's the most widely known, is all. The fact that there were multiple foods banned by the Jewish laws is actually an indication that they exist independent of any benefits derived from the bans, in my opinion. There's simply no reason to ban a lot of the things that were banned, as far as health is concerned--and some of the things not banned have some risks associated with them.

This was my point. The dietary laws include much more than a ban on pork, so concentrating on that one ban misses the entire point of the issue.

Religious tolerance dinner being held at a Catholic church in a little Irish town. The church ladies have cooked ham and boiled potatoes for dinner.

"Father, I see that the rabbi and his family aren't eating," says one of the women. "Why is that?"

"Oh, Bridget, I forgot to tell you: Observant Jews don't eat boiled potatoes."
 

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