Why Can't They Figure it Out?

[Tokenconservative]

No.

Really? I doubt it. What you've said has actually been pretty clear.

Okay, I'd like to see some evidence of that.

Yeah, but see, you didn't say that. You said:

Wages is defined, according to my dictionary, as:

1. Often, wages. money that is paid or received for work or services, as by the hour, day, or week. Compare living wage, minimum wage.

So, see, I think you were being intentionally misleading. Good work.

In other words, you're saying you have no evidence for your claim?

"libel" is not equivalent to "fighting words". But perhaps I could use a much easier word to understand for you, and one that is probably more appropriate: Lying.

We are. We weren't a few months ago, when I was living in Corpus Christi, Texas.

No, I don't. I rather doubt I'm interesting enough to gain their interest, anyways. Plus, I look like hell in the morning without my caffeine.

You have yet to demonstrate how, or what "anarchist" ideals I supposedly have.

Do you often accuse people of being things that they aren't? This is either lying or looking very foolish.

Please, educate me as to how I'm an anarchist.

The wall came down in 1989. That was only 18 years ago. Are you saying that economies become erected overnight?

The fact is, in East Germany, jobs are hard to come by. At least, that's the perception of people that actually live here.

Not sure about France.

I'm a guy. Trust me, I have man-parts.

Like what?

www.wikipedia.org <--- look it up yourself.

Which you've shown yourself to be a master of, considering you actually claim I'm "anarchist".

No offense, but I really don't think you know at all.


Uh huh.

So can you please define in clear terms what "liberal", "anarchist", and "libertarian" means, for us? Just so we're clear what you're actually saying?

Yes, I know what I've said has been clear. But that has not stopped you (at least you are fairly entertaining about it, tho!) from twisting my words to your own uses. Again, kudos. You are remarkably good at it, and I DO mean that as a compliment. It's one thing to just shriek that I said something I did not say (like so many in here calling me RAAAAAACCIIIISTTTTT!!! because I think English should be spoken in America...not sure when Spanish became a race; still waiting on the answer to that one from other quarters).

Wages: Whatever. LOL. Look, as I said, you are young, of course you've never met a payroll. No biggie. But in the real world, it's all sorta lumped together. Now, this is an "education" forum, so you get a lot of "teachers" in here who "forget" to add the extraordinary number of days off they get and their bennie and retirement packages to their terribly, horrifically, 3rd-World "low" wages, so, the two in tandem may give you a skewed understanding. From the standpoint of a guy writing the check ever two weeks...all the same thing. Moreover, in economics, it's all lumped together as "wages and other remuneration(s) associated with the costs of labor," etc., etc. I really don't think you are twisting it here (does not demonstrate your usual expertise...you are just ignorant--that does not mean "stupid," by the way).

Hmmm...I am not going to look them up, but I don't think "libel" and "lying" mean the same things...not legally, I am almost certain, and 100% certain that in the common English lexicon they are not conjoined twins of either connotation nor denotation.

I don't need to "demonstrate." As I explained, I will just let you keep talking, bating you, as it were, into revealing more an more. So far, you read as a slightly uncertain, but leaning-that-way anarchist. So...how was the riot at the last G8? Throw any good billiard balls?

1989 and Economics: look at Poland. Look at Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania. Look at Hungary. Look at Georgia and to some extent Ukraine--hell, even Russia! 1989 was not "last night," by any measure, and certainly not in terms of modern (put away the Keynes and Malthus!) economic theory. In 1989, the US had an abysmal unemployment rate and we were just coming out of perhaps the longest recession in our history (1872-1992 give or take). Inflation was easing but was still a big problem. Our steel industry was gone, our auto industry just starting to pull itself out of near collapse.

Germany has had the problems it has for a number of reasons, ONE of which is the absorbtion of a 3rd world nation. But it's well past the time when that can possibly continue to be a good excuse for the econ. problems there. Hell, even Somalia, today, has a thriving, if somewhat priatical economy. And Uncle Sugar did not rebuild their entire country for them.

Well, Germany is only Germany. France has the problems it has, also due to a host of demonstrably failed programs and such that they will only NOW, with a conservative (American def.) in charge be pulling themselves out of. You can't long tell the baker how much he is permitted to charge for a loag of bread and expect good things to happen in your economy.

A guy, really? For some reason I thought otherwise. You remind me a lot of a young "I'm not EITHER an anarchist!!" girl I used to engage in JUST this sort of debate with on another forum a year or so ago.

Definitions: nobody can clearly define those things, especially "anarchist" and "liberal." Wiki them. It's like art...I know what it is when I see it, though I may have to look at it a long time and turn my head this way and that before I can figure out whether I like it or not. Same's you...the more you "speak" the clearer understanding I get of your socio-political ideologies...which are decidedly leaning to the "anarchist." Curious: do you anarchists have meetings?

Tokie

 

[Tokenconservative]

Actually, it's in accordance with the rules. If the moderators hadn't requested we differentiate between being a racist and saying racist things, I'd simply make the jump from your racist comments to you being a racist. Calling someone a racist is pretty much poisoning the well. Letting your words speak for themselves does far more to say how racist you are than I ever could.

Spanish is a language not a race. Hispanic refers to an ethnic background.

So... we should call you an ethno-cist? Semantic quibbling?

Still waiting for you to show that it was I and not you who equated Hispanic with illegal immigrant.

Um...no, not so much, actually. It was not I who equated Hispanic, a catchall term that's now been in popular use, from my memory, since maybe the early '90s to describe a large segment of the US population tracing its roots Spain, Latin and S. America, the Carib in some cases and of course Mexico. This was the term largely "agreed" to by an assortment of ethnically Spanish-indio groups and orgs. after decades of fighting over it. In the last decade or so, we saw the resurgence of the silly-assed and awkward "Lation/Latina" but that seems to have been shunted aside along with "Chicano." Now, I am old enough to remember that you could get knifed in certain parts of the town I live in if you called the "wrong" person of Spanish-indio decent a "Chicano," so vitriolic was the debate.

In any case, it was the American MEDIA that made "Spanish" into a race. As a leftist, you either wholeheartedly agree with this, cannot see it and/or refuse to see it. Amounts to the same thing, either way and is much the same as the left-liberal-media telling the lie that one who believes the borders of America should be controlled is ALSO a RAAACCCIIISTTTTTTT!!!!

Your claiming that my word make me a RAACCCIIIISTTTTTT! when all my words amount to is wondering when Spanish (a language and perhaps a national identity--the Nazis, by the by, considered the Spanish Aryan) became a race, and wondering as well whether the Black Shirts, Mexican border guards who patrol Mexico's southern border with standing orders to summarily execute any non-Mexican they find wandering there--man, woman and child--are also RAACCIIISSSTTTTTT!!!

Tokie

 

[Tokenconservative]

You either meant to imply that you want illegal Mexicans decapitated, or you're too illiterate to write what you did mean.

In neither case does it appear you're qualified to pass judgment on the education other people should receive.

Hmmm...this is like one of those net grammar nannies who screams about your misuse of a semi-colon, while making all sorts of grammatical and spelling mistakes him/herself in the complaint.

Due to a missing word or three, and some mis-punctuation perhaps, I can't even dicipher what your second shot here means.

As to the other: yeah...I'd like to see 30-40 million heads on sticks.

Sheesh.

Tokie

 

[Lonewulf]

Yes, I know what I've said has been clear. But that has not stopped you (at least you are fairly entertaining about it, tho!) from twisting my words to your own uses. Again, kudos.

If you say so.

You are remarkably good at it, and I DO mean that as a compliment. It's one thing to just shriek that I said something I did not say (like so many in here calling me RAAAAAACCIIIISTTTTT!!! because I think English should be spoken in America...not sure when Spanish became a race; still waiting on the answer to that one from other quarters).

*Shrugs*

Wages: Whatever. LOL. Look, as I said, you are young, of course you've never met a payroll.

Actually, I have. Another conclusion you've jumped to that is, once again, wrong.

No biggie. But in the real world, it's all sorta lumped together.

Which is why you've confused everyone in this thread on the subject, including those that have had jobs (including me)? This is a case of you being either intentionally dishonest, or unintelligently careless.

Now, this is an "education" forum, so you get a lot of "teachers" in here who "forget" to add the extraordinary number of days off they get and their bennie and retirement packages to their terribly, horrifically, 3rd-World "low" wages, so, the two in tandem may give you a skewed understanding.

Yeah, you're right. Illegals don't tend to get retirement, health benefits, or any days off. It's too bad we don't have wonderful jobs like them!

From the standpoint of a guy writing the check ever two weeks...all the same thing. Moreover, in economics, it's all lumped together as "wages and other remuneration(s) associated with the costs of labor," etc., etc. I really don't think you are twisting it here (does not demonstrate your usual expertise...you are just ignorant--that does not mean "stupid," by the way).

Naw, I'm not ignorant, you're just being deliberately misleading.

Hmmm...I am not going to look them up, but I don't think "libel" and "lying" mean the same things...

They're close. Libel is equivalent to slander, being intentionally dishonest to ruin one's name. However, it's only prosecutable if there is evidence of actual harm. In this case, there isn't, which is why I specifically stated that it was more appropriate to call what you do lying, or dishonesty.

Don't worry, you are just ignorant. Not the same as "stupid".

I don't need to "demonstrate."

Then all of your posts are nothing more than hot air, and will always be treated as such.

As I explained, I will just let you keep talking, bating you, as it were, into revealing more an more.

Have fun!

So far, you read as a slightly uncertain, but leaning-that-way anarchist.

Ooooh, interesting. Tell me other interesting details about myself that I've never known!

So...how was the riot at the last G8? Throw any good billiard balls?

No, never been to any riots really.

A guy, really? For some reason I thought otherwise. You remind me a lot of a young "I'm not EITHER an anarchist!!" girl I used to engage in JUST this sort of debate with on another forum a year or so ago.

Good for you.

Definitions: nobody can clearly define those things, especially "anarchist" and "liberal." Wiki them.

I already did.

Anarchism (from Greek αναρχία, "without archons," "without rulers")[1] is a political philosophy encompassing theories and attitudes which reject compulsory government[2] and support its elimination,[3][4] often due to a wider rejection of involuntary or permanent authority.[5] Anarchism is defined by The Concise Oxford Dictionary of Politics as "a cluster of doctrines and attitudes centered on the belief that government is both harmful and unnecessary."[6]

I'm not an anarchist. I see government as necessary. I don't see it as always harmful.

You say "liberal", ignoring that there are multiple definitions of the word. So let me go ahead with "Liberalism".

Liberalism refers to a broad array of related ideas and theories of government that consider individual liberty to be the most important political goal.[1] Liberalism has its roots in the Western Age of Enlightenment.

Broadly speaking, liberalism emphasizes individual rights and equality of opportunity. Different forms of liberalism may propose very different policies, but they are generally united by their support for a number of principles, including extensive freedom of thought and speech, limitations on the power of governments, the rule of law, the free exchange of ideas, a market or mixed economy, and a transparent system of government.[2] All liberals – as well as some adherents of other political ideologies – support the form of government known as liberal democracy, with open and fair elections, where all citizens have equal rights by law.[3]

Wow. Someone that emphasizes individual rights and equality of opportunity, open and fair elections, free exchange of ideas! OMG don't call me a Liberal, sir!

Of course, I'm sure you mean the American type of Liberal. So I'll go with Progressivism.

Progressivism historically advocates the advancement of workers' rights and social justice. The progressives were early proponents of anti-trust laws and the regulation of large corporations and monopolies, as well as government-funded environmentalism and the creation of National Parks and Wildlife Refuges.

Now, what about "Libertarianism"?

Libertarianism is a political philosophy that upholds the principle of individual liberty. Libertarians maintain that all persons are the absolute owners of their own lives, and should be free to do whatever they wish with their persons or property, provided they allow others the same liberty. In continental Europe, and to a lesser extent Ireland and Britain, the older political meaning of libertarianism prevails, as a synonym for anarchism, adapted in late 19th century France as a term that would be more acceptable to the authorities (see libertarian socialism). This article is concerned with libertarianism in its more recent sense.

Now, you said that I'm an anarchist, apparently because I don't believe in big government.

Well

Broadly speaking, there are two types of libertarians: rights theorists and consequentialists.[1] Rights theorists hold that it is morally imperative that all human interaction, including government interaction with private individuals, should be voluntary and consensual. They maintain that the initiation of force by any person or government, against another person or their property—with force meaning the use of physical force, the threat of it, or the commission of fraud against someone—who has not initiated physical force, threat, or fraud, is a violation of that principle.

Intriguing!

Consequentialist libertarians do not have a moral prohibition against "initiation of force," but believe that allowing a very large scope of political and economic liberty results in the maximum well-being or efficiency for a society—even if protecting this liberty involves some initiation of force by government. However, such governmental actions are limited in the free society consequentialists envision. This type of libertarianism is associated with Milton Friedman, Ludwig von Mises, and Friedrich Hayek. Some writers who have been called libertarians have also been referred to as classical liberals, by others or themselves. Also, some use the phrase "the freedom philosophy" to refer to libertarianism, classical liberalism, or both.[2]

Hm, perhaps you were thinking of Consequentialist libertarianism.

It's like art...I know what it is when I see it

Leonardo Davinci, you are not.

Considering that most of the conclusions you've jumped to on me, or political ideologies are wrong, I don't really think that you're qualified to make any sorts of judgments whatsoever.

though I may have to look at it a long time and turn my head this way and that before I can figure out whether I like it or not.] Same's you...the more you "speak" the clearer understanding I get of your socio-political ideologies...which are decidedly leaning to the "anarchist." Curious: do you anarchists have meetings?e

Since I'm not an anarchist, I wouldn't know.

Do you meet with Ann Coulter? I'm curious.

 

[Jeff Wagg]

I almost got my Associates. I'm not entirely sure you can get a Bachelor's in Liberal Arts, and I really doubt that they have a Master's or Ph.D.

I have a BA in Liberal Studies from Georgetown, and they offer a Masters and Ph.D. as well.

 

[ImaginalDisc]

Hmmm...this is like one of those net grammar nannies who screams about your misuse of a semi-colon, while making all sorts of grammatical and spelling mistakes him/herself in the complaint.

Due to a missing word or three, and some mis-punctuation perhaps, I can't even dicipher what your second shot here means.

As to the other: yeah...I'd like to see 30-40 million heads on sticks.

Sheesh.

Tokie

Firstly, if you can't be bothered to use English correctly, you have no right to decry the poor education of others.

Secondly, there is nothing wrong with that sentence.

Thirdly, you are a genocidal maniac.

 

[Lonewulf]

I have a BA in Liberal Studies from Georgetown, and they offer a Masters and Ph.D. as well.

Isn't that like getting a Ph.D. in "Undecided"?

Undecided/Liberal Arts are interchangeable in Del Mar.

 

[LostAngeles]

Um...no, not so much, actually. It was not I who equated Hispanic, a catchall term that's now been in popular use, from my memory, since maybe the early '90s to describe a large segment of the US population tracing its roots Spain, Latin and S. America, the Carib in some cases and of course Mexico. This was the term largely "agreed" to by an assortment of ethnically Spanish-indio groups and orgs. after decades of fighting over it. In the last decade or so, we saw the resurgence of the silly-assed and awkward "Lation/Latina" but that seems to have been shunted aside along with "Chicano." Now, I am old enough to remember that you could get knifed in certain parts of the town I live in if you called the "wrong" person of Spanish-indio decent a "Chicano," so vitriolic was the debate.

In any case, it was the American MEDIA that made "Spanish" into a race. As a leftist, you either wholeheartedly agree with this, cannot see it and/or refuse to see it. Amounts to the same thing, either way and is much the same as the left-liberal-media telling the lie that one who believes the borders of America should be controlled is ALSO a RAAACCCIIISTTTTTTT!!!!

Your claiming that my word make me a RAACCCIIIISTTTTTT! when all my words amount to is wondering when Spanish (a language and perhaps a national identity--the Nazis, by the by, considered the Spanish Aryan) became a race, and wondering as well whether the Black Shirts, Mexican border guards who patrol Mexico's southern border with standing orders to summarily execute any non-Mexican they find wandering there--man, woman and child--are also RAACCIIISSSTTTTTT!!!

Tokie

I made no such equivalence either. All I asked was for someone to explain to me how you equating Hispanic with illegal immigrant was not a racist statement.

Also, how do you know I'm a leftist again?

 

[drkitten]

Isn't that like getting a Ph.D. in "Undecided"?

Sometimes it's a Ph.D. in "Roll your own." If i want to study the psychological history of theology, do I do that in the history department, the psychology department, or the theology department?

Answer : No, I don't.

 

[Lonewulf]

I made no such equivalence either. All I asked was for someone to explain to me how you equating Hispanic with illegal immigrant was not a racist statement.

Also, how do you know I'm a leftist again?

Because "it's like art", and you obviously disagree with him. Hence, leftist. =D

 

[NobbyNobbs]

It's fun arguing with you LW, but you are young and it's now becoming circular. Let's recap:

3. I would be the last person in the world to argue that I know much. One thing you find out as you get older, is how truly ignorant you are, given that when you were younger you knew everything.

Stop being a typical kid. Nobody (outside your mother) cares that you are "showing" your MIA dad by trashing your own body. Especially now that you are, apparently, an adult (over 18 in the US).

You don't know anything about employing or being employed in America, so I doubt this will make much sense to you but here goes:

Wages: Whatever. LOL. Look, as I said, you are young, of course you've never met a payroll. No biggie. But in the real world, it's all sorta lumped together. Now, this is an "education" forum, so you get a lot of "teachers" in here who "forget" to add the extraordinary number of days off they get and their bennie and retirement packages to their terribly, horrifically, 3rd-World "low" wages, so, the two in tandem may give you a skewed understanding.

Once again, Token, you make a lot of assumptions about the people you are discoursing with. From the above quotes, it appears to me that you seem to think that your age, as compared to Lonewolf's, gives you some sort of advantage in your argument. Because you are "old" and he is "young", you know things he doesn't, and therefore you are right.

Wrong. First of all, I have seen no indication of either your age nor Lonewolf's, either in posts or in profiles. You have assumed you are older than he. It's quite possible this isn't true. Even if it were, the mere fact of age does not lend automatic credence to your arguments.

The other problem I have with the above posts is more personal. Obviously, (and here, I make a presumption) you are not a teacher, nor do you have any in your family with whom you discuss their work conditions. I feel I can speak on this from experience, having taught for several years. It is rare that I arrive at school after 6:45 am. It is rare that I leave before 5 pm. It is astonishingly rare that I don't have work to do at home after work, or on the weekends. Teacher get done the last week of June, and return the second week of August. I generally spend the last week of July and the first week of August preparing for the school year. It is estimated that an average schoolteacher works more hours in 9 months than a 9-to-5 person works year round. The benefits are hardly fantastic; I had to get state assistance to make sure my kids had medical insurance. And the salaries are hardly exceptional; after 5 years I was barely making 40K gross.

LOL. What country do you think this is?

America. Where we take in your tired, your poor, your huddled masses? Remember all that? People tend to forget that, unless you are pure Navajo, your family is not native either. And before you say "at least my ancestors came here legally", you might want to check what the legal requirements were like then as opposed to now.

My kids have a right to school. So do the kids of illegals who were BORN here. The kids of illegals who were not born here should not be in our schools. Neither should the other kind, but right now our Constitution says they should be.

"Neither should the other kind"?! As you point out, our Constitution says they should, so therefore they should. "Right now"? Are you petitioning your Congressmen for an amendment? If you believe this, then you should be. Good luck with that.

As for healthcare: um....no...my kids (whose great grandparents were born here) don't have a "right" to healthcare. I pay for that. Now, the kids of illegals DO have this right. That's because most states have laws that say that emergency rooms must treat anyone who shows up. These people, of course, don't pay for this--I do, when I take MY kids there (and so do you, but in your liberal pique, you don't "get" that--and as teacher have such an embarassingly attractive healthcare plan, you really don't care). If I take my kids to the emergecny room...I have to pay for it. Along with the healthcare of all those illegals, kids and otherwise, lined up in the ER with us!

See the difference?

Tokie

I said "they have as much of a right to healthcare as do yours". The right to be cared for as American citizens. The right not to be turned away from a hospital.

Did you know that you also pay for those adults who are legal citizens but can't afford healh insurance? They aren't turned away either, you are paying for them...why don't you rant and rally about that, too? Why just immigrants?

And once again, you should really review a teacher's benefits plan before you comment on it.

Yes, illegals make more than Americans doing the same job.

Links?! LIIIIINNNKKKKKSSSSSS!!!!

The leftist lie (that you believe) that illegals work for pennies on the dollar is just that, a lie.

So...you make the positive assertion that "last time you checked" illegals are paid less...evidence?

Do you have evidence that illegals are coming here and working for "below minimum wage"? I want something a bit more...believable than a NYTimes or LATimes puff piece on this. Show me some hard data, please.


And I've already made the argument that the corps are "giving" as you put it, the jobs. They are doing that because it's far cheaper for them to employ illegals (not in wages, those are essentially the same in most fields).

Funny, you demand links and evidence for our position without giving any for your own.

Before teaching, I worked in the food service industry in many capacities for many years. I can unequivocably say, without hesitation, that at about 80% of the places I worked, the illegals were paid less than anyone else would have been for the same job. In most of these jobs, I had access to the records, and in two of those jobs I did the payroll.

 

[Tokenconservative]

Firstly, if you can't be bothered to use English correctly, you have no right to decry the poor education of others.

Secondly, there is nothing wrong with that sentence.

Thirdly, you are a genocidal maniac.

A. You seem confused. I have never called myself anything but a most pedestrian master of the English language.

II. It's "Dr." Kitten who belittles me, due to my lack of education.

4. I am not a maniac.

Tokie

 

[Tokenconservative]

If you say so.


*Shrugs*


Actually, I have. Another conclusion you've jumped to that is, once again, wrong.


Which is why you've confused everyone in this thread on the subject, including those that have had jobs (including me)? This is a case of you being either intentionally dishonest, or unintelligently careless.


Yeah, you're right. Illegals don't tend to get retirement, health benefits, or any days off. It's too bad we don't have wonderful jobs like them!


Naw, I'm not ignorant, you're just being deliberately misleading.


They're close. Libel is equivalent to slander, being intentionally dishonest to ruin one's name. However, it's only prosecutable if there is evidence of actual harm. In this case, there isn't, which is why I specifically stated that it was more appropriate to call what you do lying, or dishonesty.

Don't worry, you are just ignorant. Not the same as "stupid".


Then all of your posts are nothing more than hot air, and will always be treated as such.


Have fun!


Ooooh, interesting. Tell me other interesting details about myself that I've never known!


No, never been to any riots really.


Good for you.


I already did.


I'm not an anarchist. I see government as necessary. I don't see it as always harmful.

You say "liberal", ignoring that there are multiple definitions of the word. So let me go ahead with "Liberalism".



Wow. Someone that emphasizes individual rights and equality of opportunity, open and fair elections, free exchange of ideas! OMG don't call me a Liberal, sir!

Of course, I'm sure you mean the American type of Liberal. So I'll go with Progressivism.



Now, what about "Libertarianism"?



Now, you said that I'm an anarchist, apparently because I don't believe in big government.

Well



Intriguing!



Hm, perhaps you were thinking of Consequentialist libertarianism.


Leonardo Davinci, you are not.

Considering that most of the conclusions you've jumped to on me, or political ideologies are wrong, I don't really think that you're qualified to make any sorts of judgments whatsoever.


Since I'm not an anarchist, I wouldn't know.

Do you meet with Ann Coulter? I'm curious.

Wow. You have a lot of free time for a college student.

Tokie

 

[Tokenconservative]

Isn't that like getting a Ph.D. in "Undecided"?

Undecided/Liberal Arts are interchangeable in Del Mar.

LOL.

Nope...it's like (and in practice, IS) getting a Ph.D in "waitering."

Tokie

 

[Tokenconservative]

I made no such equivalence either. All I asked was for someone to explain to me how you equating Hispanic with illegal immigrant was not a racist statement.

Also, how do you know I'm a leftist again?

I did not equate "Hispanic" with illegal alien. The leftist media has. I've explained this 3-4 times now. Either you are (continuing to) engaging in a strawman here, or you are not paying attention.

I know you are a leftist because you scream "RAAAACCIIIISTTTTTTTT!!!!" at anyone who wants to close the borders and get rid of the "Hispanics" (leftist media definition, thereof) in America. Now, if you were a "rightist" you'd be howling "then who'll do the JOBS AMERICANS WON'T DOOOOOOOOO!!!!!?????"

You are not howling, you are shrieking. Ergo, you are a leftist.

Tokie

 

[Lonewulf]

Wow. You have a lot of free time for a college student.

Considering that classes don't start until Monday, well, yeah.

I know you are a leftist because you scream "RAAAACCIIIISTTTTTTTT!!!!" at anyone who wants to close the borders and get rid of the "Hispanics" (leftist media definition, thereof) in America. Now, if you were a "rightist" you'd be howling "then who'll do the JOBS AMERICANS WON'T DOOOOOOOOO!!!!!?????"

You are not howling, you are shrieking. Ergo, you are a leftist.

Brilliant deduction, Sherlock!

With your impressive intellectual ability, why don't you quit whatever you're doing and go become a detective? You can be Jack Token, public Dick.

 

[Tokenconservative]

Once again, Token, you make a lot of assumptions about the people you are discoursing with. From the above quotes, it appears to me that you seem to think that your age, as compared to Lonewolf's, gives you some sort of advantage in your argument. Because you are "old" and he is "young", you know things he doesn't, and therefore you are right.

Wrong. First of all, I have seen no indication of either your age nor Lonewolf's, either in posts or in profiles. You have assumed you are older than he. It's quite possible this isn't true. Even if it were, the mere fact of age does not lend automatic credence to your arguments.

The other problem I have with the above posts is more personal. Obviously, (and here, I make a presumption) you are not a teacher, nor do you have any in your family with whom you discuss their work conditions. I feel I can speak on this from experience, having taught for several years. It is rare that I arrive at school after 6:45 am. It is rare that I leave before 5 pm. It is astonishingly rare that I don't have work to do at home after work, or on the weekends. Teacher get done the last week of June, and return the second week of August. I generally spend the last week of July and the first week of August preparing for the school year. It is estimated that an average schoolteacher works more hours in 9 months than a 9-to-5 person works year round. The benefits are hardly fantastic; I had to get state assistance to make sure my kids had medical insurance. And the salaries are hardly exceptional; after 5 years I was barely making 40K gross.

America. Where we take in your tired, your poor, your huddled masses? Remember all that? People tend to forget that, unless you are pure Navajo, your family is not native either. And before you say "at least my ancestors came here legally", you might want to check what the legal requirements were like then as opposed to now.




"Neither should the other kind"?! As you point out, our Constitution says they should, so therefore they should. "Right now"? Are you petitioning your Congressmen for an amendment? If you believe this, then you should be. Good luck with that.



I said "they have as much of a right to healthcare as do yours". The right to be cared for as American citizens. The right not to be turned away from a hospital.

Did you know that you also pay for those adults who are legal citizens but can't afford healh insurance? They aren't turned away either, you are paying for them...why don't you rant and rally about that, too? Why just immigrants?

And once again, you should really review a teacher's benefits plan before you comment on it.





Funny, you demand links and evidence for our position without giving any for your own.

Before teaching, I worked in the food service industry in many capacities for many years. I can unequivocably say, without hesitation, that at about 80% of the places I worked, the illegals were paid less than anyone else would have been for the same job. In most of these jobs, I had access to the records, and in two of those jobs I did the payroll.

I always find arguments wherein the one making the argument incorporates into his/her own argument the very thing he/she is denigrating me for doing.

Anyway, as I've stated a number of times already in this forum: I have never claimed any wisdom. I'd be happy to tell anyone willing to be bored to tears how my many poor decisions in life demonstrate just the opposite about me. What I have claimed is to be old enough (now) to have EXPERIENCED some things that my mere longer presence on this mortal coil has permitted, whereas some younger person may--probably--has not. For example: our young college boy, Lonewulf CLAIMS to have met a payroll...I doubt that. But whatever.

And by Gaia I hope he's not as old as me and traveling 'round the world with his mom, attending various schools as she goes from job assignment to job assignment. That would not only be pathetic, it would mean I would have to stop talking to him at all as I absolutely detest people like that.

LOL! I work for myself. It's rare that I arrive at work after 4 am. It's rare that I am not working at 7-8 pm. I frequently work Saturdays, often Sundays, most holidays (I refuse to work on Thanksgiving and Christmas because those are drinking holidays) and the last time I had a vacation of more than 2-3 days was in 2002. I don't get a sub to fill in for me when I am sick. I just come to work. I had flu 2 years ago and had to keep a wastebasket next to my desk and take it with me in my car to puke in. I work all summer long. I don't get 3 wks off at Christmas, or a week in the spring.

Yer breakin' my heart, pal...no, really...I'm crying on the inside!

You are right, teacher salaries are not exceptional. Rid yourselves of your union and that can change. Meanwhile, as always, you say nothing about the bennies. You get full health coverage including dental and vision and even mental health, and you pay nothing for it out of your paycheck (the taxpayer picks it up). Moreover, you will retire at 70-90% of the greatest year's pay you recieve during your career. Meaning that even if, you can't make it to the 25 or 30 years, and go part time or some such, when you DO retire, it won't be at the reduced salary, but at your HIGHEST salary.

Again, cry me a river.

On top of all this, the economy does not--ever--impact your salary. It just keeps going up. You cannot be fired for virtually any reason after reaching "tenure" or whatever mealy-mouthed thing it's called today.

Boo...hoo, you poor thing.

And finally, nobody is holding a gun to your head. On the very off chance you are a teacher because you actively decided that's what you wanted to do, and not because at some point in college you said to yourself after seeing another 2.16 GPA for the year, "well, I can always teach, I guess," nobody forced you into it, and nobody is forcing you to stay right now.

Tokie

 

[Tokenconservative]

Considering that classes don't start until Monday, well, yeah.


Brilliant deduction, Sherlock!

With your impressive intellectual ability, why don't you quit whatever you're doing and go become a detective? You can be Jack Token, public Dick.

Hmm...no classes 'til Monday...shouldn't you be cleaning your bong or something?

Good idea, but I don't think most PIs make as much as I do.

Tokie

 

[Lonewulf]

Hmm...no classes 'til Monday...shouldn't you be cleaning your bong or something?

Oooh, classy! A suggestion that I take drugs!

So, let's go back to the assumptions about me:

1) I'm an anarchist. Wrong.
2) I put "bits of metal" into my body. Wrong.
3) I've never had a job or a paycheck. Wrong.
4) I abuse drugs. Wrong.

Hmm...

If it's an art form, you're the Microsoft Paint version.

 

[ponderingturtle]

Sometimes it's a Ph.D. in "Roll your own." If i want to study the psychological history of theology, do I do that in the history department, the psychology department, or the theology department?

Answer : No, I don't.

So sort of like how Isaac Bonewits got a BA in magic from UC Berkley