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Why aren't all atheists materialists?

I'll try to engage the question, explaining why I am an atheist and not inclined to materialism.

1. I am an atheist because I have no reason to believe in a god.
2. I experience free will. So do we all. I'm sorry, I know some people claim that they don't experience the phenomenon of making choices, but I can't believe it.
Your flawed assumption here is that "making choices" is the same as "free will"

There is no inconsistency whastsoever between Materialism and making choices.

And free will. Well I have never had anybody explain to me what it is.

Tell me - when you make a choice - is there a reason for the particular option you choose?

Or no reason at all?
 
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Why not? Why should I accept implicit atheism in my definition? It is not useful to me. I have never met an implicit atheist. Implicit atheism can be a valid definition in the abstract. It serves no purpose to me in reality. All that have argued for that definition, all without exception are explicit atheists.
My problem with your definition is that you conflate "lack of belief" with "reject." Those are NOT the same things. I don't reject the concept of deities just because I don't believe that any were involved in the creation of the universe. I don't believe a lot of things, but I wouldn't say I reject many at all. Most of the things that I don't believe in, don't really matter much to me.

A convincing performance is not evidence for telepathy. If that were so, the million dollars would have been claimed long ago.
Yet many people would consider it some sort of evidence. It's not a double-blinded study, but most of us don't have the time or inclination to conduct them on the spot when we witness something we think is incredible.
No, he said he saw it. He is either lying or what he saw is not telepathy. There is no evidence for telepathy as there is no evidence for deities. And no, a convincing performance is not evidence.
Now you're redefining evidence. If I see something, I may consider it evidence. It may not be good evidence, and it may not stand up to scrutiny. But I can still call it evidence. There are people who truly believe they talk to ghosts and other people who truly believe they talk to jesus. Their evidence may not be scientific, but it still stands as evidence for what they personally believe.

You are using the word wrong. Rationality is not subjective. Your position was irrational. your reasoning was irrational. It it were based on reason then you would have concluded that all was fiction.
I had a reason. It wasn't a scientific reason, but it was a reason. I explained it.
My experience is the opposite.
That is something I find unbelievable. I don't think I've ever met a person who is logically consistent and 100% rational. We're not vulcans.
I have met no atheist here who claims he or she is irrational or logically inconsistent. I have met no atheist who believes this.
How high do I have to raise my hand for you to see it? Me me me! I'm logically inconsistent and prone to irrational thinking. I try my best, but my human emotions get in the way at times.
I'm not doing either. I'm coming from the perspective that humans are predisposed to explaining things with supernatural elements. There is much evidence for this. Does not mean it is true. But, if this is true, then it is interesting to consider why other humans are resistent to this.
I don't disagree with this. I believe it because I believe that nearly all humans are irrational creatures, in spite of their best efforts to the contrary. Sometimes we have "reasons" for believing things that may be entirely personal and irrational, but are very difficult for an individual to shake.
 
This sentence is meaningless. Please, PLEASE try and post more clearly.

I presume you're suggesting I look for all possible meanings in your posts and pick the one I think you mean. Can you see why this is not a good way to communicate?

But you understood perfectly.
 
Are you deliberately obtuse or just genuinely unable to hold a coherent conversation?
 
I don't know of any human being who isn't, on occasion, logically inconsistent or irrational.
 
...
That is something I find unbelievable. I don't think I've ever met a person who is logically consistent and 100% rational. We're not vulcans.
...

Even Vulcans aren't 100% rational. They have their religious rituals and that Pon Phar thingy. They were invented to be exemplars of rationality, but if they had no internal conflicts they would be too dull even for Roddenberry.
 
Your flawed assumption here is that "making choices" is the same as "free will"

There is no inconsistency whastsoever between Materialism and making choices.

And free will. Well I have never had anybody explain to me what it is.

Tell me - when you make a choice - is there a reason for the particular option you choose?

Or no reason at all?

My experience is that I freely exercise my will to choose what I choose. That may, as I have acknowledged, be an illusion. But it is my experience.
 
My problem with your definition is that you conflate "lack of belief" with "reject." Those are NOT the same things. I don't reject the concept of deities just because I don't believe that any were involved in the creation of the universe. I don't believe a lot of things, but I wouldn't say I reject many at all. Most of the things that I don't believe in, don't really matter much to me.

Let me try anothe way.

Atheist: What is your definition of atheism.
Me: Only explicit atheism.
Atheist: Wait, but you are can considering implicit atheism and that should be the valid defintion
Me: You are right, I take that. I just consider those that actually know what atheism means and describe themselves as atheist.
Atheist: But, don't you think you might leave a lot of people out?
Me: Maybe so, but I'm only using that definition for survey purposes, and only people who actually know what atheism means and think they are can check the atheist box.
Atheist: But remember, strictly speaking, implicit atheists are athiests.
Me: I agree.


Yet many people would consider it some sort of evidence. It's not a double-blinded study, but most of us don't have the time or inclination to conduct them on the spot when we witness something we think is incredible.
Now you're redefining evidence. If I see something, I may consider it evidence. It may not be good evidence, and it may not stand up to scrutiny. But I can still call it evidence. There are people who truly believe they talk to ghosts and other people who truly believe they talk to jesus. Their evidence may not be scientific, but it still stands as evidence for what they personally believe.

I'm sorry. It is kind of ironic how you accuse me of fitting the definitions to my arguments. Evidence has a very special connotation and a very precise meaning.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=6448317

Evidence in its broadest sense includes everything that is used to determine or demonstrate the truth of an assertion. Giving or procuring evidence is the process of using those things that are either (a) presumed to be true, or (b) were themselves proven via evidence, to demonstrate an assertion's truth. Evidence is the currency by which one fulfills the burden of proof.

Evidence shows something is true, in short. I might guess why the confusion, but I won't.

I had a reason. It wasn't a scientific reason, but it was a reason. I explained it.

Having a reason is not the same as being rational.

That is something I find unbelievable. I don't think I've ever met a person who is logically consistent and 100% rational. We're not vulcans.

Let me try again.

Atheists: I find the most of the atheists I know are as logically inconsistent and irrational as the theist I know.
Me: My experience has been almost the opposite. Most of the atheists I know are more logically consistent and rational than the theists I know, on average of course.


How high do I have to raise my hand for you to see it? Me me me! I'm logically inconsistent and prone to irrational thinking. I try my best, but my human emotions get in the way at times.

And again:

Atheist: I'm sure you don't mean rational and logically consistent 100% of the time.
Me: Of course, it would be very very stupid of me to say something like that. I mean, on average, the atheists I know tend to be very rational and logically consistent, more so than the theist I know.

I don't disagree with this. I believe it because I believe that nearly all humans are irrational creatures, in spite of their best efforts to the contrary. Sometimes we have "reasons" for believing things that may be entirely personal and irrational, but are very difficult for an individual to shake.

Humans are not irrational creatures. We are rational creatures who sometimes behave irrationally. Irritional humans are by definition crazy, and there is treatment for crazy people.
 
I don't care what you want, Christian. You laid down a challenge and I'm meeting it. Explain to me how the fact I haven't seen a god is a reason I shouldn't believe in the telepathy I've seen.

Still waiting, Christian.
 
@ Sledge & linusrichard:
Could you tell us what your experiences with telepathy/Ouija board were? I know that this isn't very on-topic, but I find such stories very interesting!
 
I don't think so.

OK, prove to me there is something outside the person experiencing religion that causes it. Well, it could be another person that one is telepathically connected to, but I mean this BIGGER THING.

Well, there is memes. What are you referring to, then?

Feelings explains it to me.
 
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