Why am I wrong to like the Electoral College?

[psionl0]

Because it says "Hercules56" at the top left of your post?

That's pretty childish.

But funny.

 

[psionl0]

Corrected to match my perception of the EC.

A human is a human is a human. One person in Wyoming has no more nor less value than one person in L.A. and ought not to have greater political power. Ten people in L.A. may realistically have more political power than one person in Wyoming - but that's not disenfranchising the Wyoming person. It's just recognizing that one person has no more value than one other person, even if one is from a rural area and one is from an urban area.

That is not the issue. The issue is that voters in red states or blue states have effectively no say whatsoever on who becomes POTUS - regardless of the number of voters in the state.

Requiring each state to allocate their EC votes in proportion to the votes each candidate received would solve this issue. (Whether small states should have more EC votes relative to their population than larger states is an unrelated issue).

 

[psionl0]

The popular vote is by definition a majority minority vote.

ftfy.

It is only a majority vote if a candidate receives more than 50% of the vote. Otherwise, a majority of the voters are not getting their way.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

Question: has being a Swing State benefitted the people there?

Seems to me that it mostly held them back.

 

[acbytesla]

I like the Electoral College.

I forces candidates to pay attention to the needs of more folks, not just people in the big urban areas. Thereby reducing the sense of rural marginalization.

I also think it unites the country, since we all count.
Why am I wrong?

Are you making a funny? If we all counted then George W Bush and Donald Trump would never have been elected President. And 5 out of 6 Supreme Court conservative Justices wouldn't be on the court.

And the fact is Candidates pay far too much attention to the swing states and tend to ignore all the others. Just look how many times Presidential and Vice Presidential candidates have visited Wisconsin, Michigan, North Carolina, Georgia, Ohio, Pennsylvania and Arizona and how often they have visited New York, California, Texas, Illinois, Florida, Washington, Massachusetts or the rest of the country.

 

[arthwollipot]

An electoral system where a citizen can say "my vote doesn't count" is not a well-functioning democracy, in my opinion.

 

[psionl0]

An electoral system where a citizen can say "my vote doesn't count" is not a well-functioning democracy, in my opinion.

That would include Australia since there are a lot of electorates that are labor/coalition strongholds.

 

[Thermal]

?? If the founders intended that the president be chosen by national popular vote, they would have done that. This, after all, is the United States.

I...don't care what the founders intended, if they intended anything at all except for their work to be superceded as times changed. They weren't gods come down to dwell amongst us mere mortals. They were some eloquent guys who were around at the time. Literally, nothing more than that.

 

[Trausti]

An electoral system where a citizen can say "my vote doesn't count" is not a well-functioning democracy, in my opinion.

The Labor party in the UK has a massive majority in parliament yet received only a third of the vote.

 

[Trausti]

The Conservative party in Canada received more votes than the Liberals yet got fewer seats in parliament.

 

[lionking]

That would include Australia since there are a lot of electorates that are labor/coalition strongholds.

That is ******** and you should know it. Was there a bigger stronghold that Benelong for the LNP? Well guess what…..

 

[arthwollipot]

Yeah, the difference is that because of the Electoral College, in some places in America people's votes literally do not count.

 

[lionking]

Yeah, the difference is that because of the Electoral College, in some places in America people's votes literally do not count.

Agreed

 

[psionl0]

That is ******** and you should know it. Was there a bigger stronghold that Benelong for the LNP? Well guess what…..

Sure, a blue ribbon seat can change hands if the government is unpopular enough but that is the exception rather than the rule. In a normal election, if you live in a blue ribbon seat then the only reason to go out and vote is to avoid a fine.

Yeah, the difference is that because of the Electoral College, in some places in America people's votes literally do not count.

It's the same principle. A state that is not normally a swing state can still change its EC votes if the circumstances are right.

It's probably pure wishful thinking but I have seen some discussion about the possibility of Texas turning blue this election.

 

[psionl0]

The Labor party in the UK has a massive majority in parliament yet received only a third of the vote.

That's because the British public wanted it that way.

 

[Oystein]

Hercules, I have little doubt that you knew already, when you opened this thread that this...

I forces candidates to pay attention to the needs of more folks, not just people in the big urban areas.

...is completely false and the opposite is true (since many states, including and particularly the most rural states, are safely locked into voting for one of the big parties, candidates can quitel safely IGNORE these states and their folks almost entirely), and this...

...it unites the country, since we all count....

...is also completely false and the opposite is true (the EC / winner takes all system effectively disenfranchises minorities everywhere and decouples who becomes president from who is it that the majority of voters voted for, thereby disenfranchising even a majority).

One way to know you knew already that these things are false is the fact that you did not even try to forward fact-base, rational arguments for your (claimed) beliefs.

 

[a_unique_person]

The Labor party in the UK has a massive majority in parliament yet received only a third of the vote.

First past the post voting had it's own problems. What Americans call instant runoff is better.

 

[Gulliver Foyle]

Because it's an explicitly anti-democratic mechanism designed to protect the legality of owning slaves. Because it's one of the main reasons why US elections are only barely more democratic than Russia's.

 

[Gulliver Foyle]

The popular vote is by definition a majority vote. It's not 'tramping over the minority', it's determining how many people are choosing something. All those ballot initiatives are also going to go to the majority, and the minority gets nothing.

I really do hate the "tyranny of the majority" bs that was coined to defend monstrosities like the electoral college. It always comes from people who if you start digging into their ideologies, want to force others to conform to their way of thinking; true tyranny.

 

[a_unique_person]

I really do hate the "tyranny of the majority" bs that was coined to defend monstrosities like the electoral college. It always comes from people who if you start digging into their ideologies, want to force others to conform to their way of thinking; true tyranny.

The tyranny of the minority is fine, though.