Why a one-way Crush down is not possible

Status
Not open for further replies.
Heiwa:


You mean in the same way you have in the last 2300 odd posts on this ridiculous thread when you've repeatedly failed to respond to people cleverer than you telling you why your theories are flawed?

Oh yes, I can see that discussion happening.

You're boring.

Why not select the post from anywhere in this thread that you think Heiwa could not answer ? If you cannot do this we will have to assume that there is no such post. Then we can guess why none of the resident engineers engage .
 
I'm confused. Heiwa. This thread is FILLED to the brim with people who have in very specific ways shown you (and just about everybody reading the thread) that you don't know what you are talking about. Now they're just frustrated and simply telling you that you don't know what you're talking about in short, irritated snippets, which of course means the thread is probably soon to die.

Please study my web page again and copy/paste anything you don't understand ... and I will explain.
 
the craziest conspiracy theory is the official one: The government was surprised. :o


Yes, we all know that governments, particularly authoritarian ones, can never be surprised. Stalin was, of course, expecting Hitler's invasion. He engineered the whole thing so he could lose several armies, get major cities and industrial centers reduced to rubble, and take over twenty million casualties.
Maybe he just wanted to make it exciting, huh?
 
Please study my web page again and copy/paste anything you don't understand ... and I will explain.


We notice that your web page contains your incompetent ravings, but fails to explain why real engineers regard you as a laughingstock. Answer the question your fellow frauds always run from: what do you know that the experts don't, and how did you learn it?
 
Heiwa:
Please study my web page again and copy/paste anything you don't understand ... and I will explain.

Translated as 'please look up my rectum again and see if you can see ********'.

You're trying to get people banned here when you should have been kicked out months ago.

Discussing things in a reasonable, civilised way? Don't make me laugh. You should have been turfed out of here with a boot up your backside months ago, as you were at some conference I read about when you made a prat of yourself.

You're a troll. Peddle your dung to those flies who like the smell.
 
Part C one-way crushed down part A!
[qimg]http://i625.photobucket.com/albums/tt332/JREFImages/Hewiaisamoron.jpg[/qimg]

Do you have a link where that pic is from?

I seem to remember a video of a CD showing a buliding that had the supports removed somewhere near the middle of the building and the upper half "one way crushed" the lower half....

Is that where your picture is from?

What thread was that post in?
 
Why not select the post from anywhere in this thread that you think Heiwa could not answer ? If you cannot do this we will have to assume that there is no such post. Then we can guess why none of the resident engineers engage .


No need to guess. The real engineers have torn Heiwa's idiocy to shreds. They have done it repeatedly, ringing all the changes. They have busted him from top to bottom, from left to right, from here to next month.

They are tired of slapping him around. He is one of those inflatable punching bags we played with as children. Hit it as hard as you like, and instantly it springs back for more punishment, the silly face on the front never losing its moronic grin.
 
So let's settle for that a one-way Crush down (of a big part A by a small part C of same A by gravity alone - C is dropped on A) is not possible without observations and calculations. It is an axiom. The Björkman Axiom.

Actually, this is taught at every university of structura design andl analysis when crush-worthyness of structures are considered.

Link, please.
 
But he's right- you can't produce any such link.


Gee, Bill, some of us have noticed that THIS THREAD is the sort of thing one would link to if WE WEREN'T ALREADY IN IT!


Hey, how about posts # 2272 and 2289? Still running, aren't you?
 
So let's settle for that a one-way Crush down (of a big part A by a small part C of same A by gravity alone - C is dropped on A) is not possible without observations and calculations. It is an axiom. The Björkman Axiom.

Actually, this is taught at every university of structura design andl analysis when crush-worthyness of structures are considered. The car industry is involved but also the ship building industry - my case. I can provide plenty of examples. Objective is to ensure that energy applied at impact is absorbed by the weak elements, friction, etc, etc.

The United Nations International Maritime Organization, IMO, thought for many years that when a ship A was hit by another ship C in collision, C always sliced A from bilge to deck, and the rules were based on that ignorant assumption. Nowadays (since say 1992), thanks to the better informed people including me, IMO has changed its opinion. Result? Better safety at sea. My business.


Your web page, which fraudulently and illegally claims that you are connected with the EU, doesn't explain why there is an axiom named after an incompetent fool who gets everything wrong. Ugly rumors are circulating that the fool in question invented the nonsensical "axiom" and named it himself.
 
Your web page, which fraudulently and illegally claims that you are connected with the EU, doesn't explain why there is an axiom named after an incompetent fool who gets everything wrong. Ugly rumors are circulating that the fool in question invented the nonsensical "axiom" and named it himself.

Hm, all information on my web page is correct. I am based in the EU and blessed by its institutions. EU has even approved my innovative tanker design as equivalent to less safe alternatives. EU is quite good; I can be a citizen of one member state (S), live, work, vote and pay taxes in another member state (F) and do further work in a third (Saxony, part of D) as my qualifications are accepted there.

Please study my web page again and copy/paste anything you don't understand about WTC 1 ... and I will explain. The axiom? Well, I created it and thought I would name it ... after me. Are you jealous? In retrospect I should have named the innovative tanker design after me, too.

Why can't you stay on topic? What's the need of obnoxious, personal insults? Lack of education? What does your mother say? Are you a religious, unhappy, depressed fundamentalist?
 
Last edited:
Heiwa has taken the unusual, but not particularly surprising, tactic of declaring information from his own web site as being "irrelevant". So it looks like I will have to continue without his help. Doubtless, he will claim that I don't understand his web site and will offer to explain it to me.

Here is the first serious gaffe from his website:

There are 280+ support elements between any floor; only two are indicated in the model.

This invalidates the model immediately, because it fails to acknowledge that there is a major difference between the core columns and perimeter columns in modern skyscrapers. It is the core columns that provide the vertical support that becomes stronger the closer to the ground it gets. This is the part of the structure that is key to Heiwa's theory. The perimeter columns, which are the only ones he shows in his model, serve the function of providing stiffness and transmitting load to the core column through the floors. Since the core columns aren't even there in his model, it becomes nonsensical.

There are thus two possibilities:

i) weaker support elements fail between floors #98/99 above impact, or

ii) stronger support elements fail between floors #96/97 below impact.

Note that the supports are virtual and broken supports just disappear at no time.

Let's assume that these failures initiate a second free fall drop.

In case i) it will be a reduced section C of mass 13 m that drops and impacts floor #98.

In case ii) it will be an increased section C of mass 15 m that drops and impacts floor #96.

Here we see that Heiwa's theory lacks internal consistency. He claims that if the stronger section breaks first, then the moving section increases in mass by one unit, while if the weaker section breaks first, then the moving section decreases in mass by one unit.

Something about the properties of a stronger section allows it to continue to apply force after it fails, while the properties of a weaker section are fundamentally different: Failed supports "disappear" and no longer apply any force at all.

How? He doesn't say. We just have to take his word for it.

At this second impact and high pressure between two elements the structure compresses elastically again and once more the question is - what support elements will break, if any? The ones below or the ones above? Or none.

The ones below are getting stronger and stronger relative to any undamaged supports above. So sooner or later the weaker supports above will start to fail!

In the real world the weaker supports above in a structure cannot crush the stronger supports below. The worst case is that all supports in upper section C are broken and then any crush-down is arrested.

This implies two things: That the supports in one section or another will fail, but not both, and that a failed column is unable to exert any force.

The former is a false dichotomy. The latter is a physical impossibility.

How would the stationary section "know" whether the mass crushing down on it is composed of failed or intact supports? The only difference is that, once the "weaker" elements become crushed, they actually exert more force because they can no longer absorb energy by deforming.

Heiwa has not shown that a "one-way crush-down" (whatever he means by that) is not possible. Of course, he will simply counter, once again, that his theory is not understood.

Perhaps he should learn to communicate clearly.
 
Heiwa has taken the unusual, but not particularly surprising, tactic of declaring information from his own web site as being "irrelevant". So it looks like I will have to continue without his help. Doubtless, he will claim that I don't understand his web site and will offer to explain it to me.

Here is the first serious gaffe from his website:



This invalidates the model immediately, because it fails to acknowledge that there is a major difference between the core columns and perimeter columns in modern skyscrapers. It is the core columns that provide the vertical support that becomes stronger the closer to the ground it gets. This is the part of the structure that is key to Heiwa's theory. The perimeter columns, which are the only ones he shows in his model, serve the function of providing stiffness and transmitting load to the core column through the floors. Since the core columns aren't even there in his model, it becomes nonsensical.



Here we see that Heiwa's theory lacks internal consistency. He claims that if the stronger section breaks first, then the moving section increases in mass by one unit, while if the weaker section breaks first, then the moving section decreases in mass by one unit.

Something about the properties of a stronger section allows it to continue to apply force after it fails, while the properties of a weaker section are fundamentally different: Failed supports "disappear" and no longer apply any force at all.

How? He doesn't say. We just have to take his word for it.



This implies two things: That the supports in one section or another will fail, but not both, and that a failed column is unable to exert any force.

The former is a false dichotomy. The latter is a physical impossibility.

How would the stationary section "know" whether the mass crushing down on it is composed of failed or intact supports? The only difference is that, once the "weaker" elements become crushed, they actually exert more force because they can no longer absorb energy by deforming.

Heiwa has not shown that a "one-way crush-down" (whatever he means by that) is not possible. Of course, he will simply counter, once again, that his theory is not understood.

Perhaps he should learn to communicate clearly.

Full text is available at web page http://heiwaco.tripod.com/mac5.htm (one of 100's on my web site). It is evidently an analysis of Ryan Mackey's famous Hardfire model (only two supports/floor) where upper, solid part M crushes anything weak in its way down. In my analysis it doesn't happen.
 
Full text is available at web page http://heiwaco.tripod.com/mac5.htm (one of 100's on my web site). It is evidently an analysis of Ryan Mackey's famous Hardfire model (only two supports/floor) where upper, solid part M crushes anything weak in its way down. In my analysis it doesn't happen.

So your response is to point me to the same web page I was referencing?

That's all you've got?

(PS, Mackey's model is irrelevant because it was not trying to show that structures get stronger as they get closer to the ground and therefore cannot collapse.)
 
Hm, all information on my web page is correct. I am based in the EU and blessed by its institutions.


What a shameless, baldfaced liar you are.



EU has even approved my innovative tanker design as equivalent to less safe alternatives. EU is quite good; I can be a citizen of one member state (S), live, work, vote and pay taxes in another member state (F) and do further work in a third (Saxony, part of D) as my qualifications are accepted there.

Please study my web page again and copy/paste anything you don't understand about WTC 1 ... and I will explain. The axiom? Well, I created it and thought I would name it ... after me. Are you jealous? In retrospect I should have named the innovative tanker design after me, too.


Why should I be jealous of obstinate, arrogant, impenetrable stupidity? You created and named your own bogus axiom because everyone else regards your position as utterly mad.


Why can't you stay on topic? What's the need of obnoxious, personal insults? Lack of education? What does your mother say? Are you a religious, unhappy, depressed fundamentalist?


My mother suggests avoiding arguments with idiots.
 
Originally Posted by Bluesky ... I agree that nobody seems to be able to explain to you, "why a one-way crush is possible".

God save us.!

Yes, it is impossible to explain a one-way crush of a structure by gravity as such a process cannot take place. But plenty of people still believe it is possible. Halleluja.


Thank you Heiwa,

Your misquote of my comment is a perfect example of how the ae911truth movement cherry pick comments and twist the truth.

The full comment is below

For each of your 2800 posts on the issue there have been at least 5 to 10 responses, that explain why your paper is neither relevant to the failures of the WTC towers or to structural collapse analysis. And I agree that nobody seems to be able to explain to you, "why a one-way crush is possible".

But I think you have helped many people understand why your theory about the WTC collapse is not possible. You have also demonstrated how the ae911truth movement would like to form the debate, and how they would interface with the engineers who design these buildings and the structural pathologists who analyzed the collapse.

God save us.!
 
Skilling made a number of comments to the Seattle Times in 1993 which you can find on-line.

Robertson making the fuel comment can be seen on 911 Mysteries. I think it was from an interview for the show How the Towers Fell.

He also made comments in 1984/85 along the lines of no matter how the buildings were attacked that a collapse would be very unlikely.

Come on guys ...grow up.!
The twin tower were designed in the early 60's, so please do not think that the technology that we have today was available with the designers of the towers.

1962 - First trans-Atlantic satellite broadcast via the Telstar satellite
1964 - The programming language BASIC was created
1964 - The compact Ford Mustang was launched
1967 - The first ATM is opened in Barclays Bank, London
1967 - The Beatles release,album Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band
1968 - First humans to leave Earth's gravity influence and orbit another celestial body: Apollo 8.

And you think that Skillings did a comprehensive fire and structures analysis with technology that would be invented 40 years later.

Any comment in the 1990s would surely be a bit of post-rationalisation at the best. The best they could have done is shown that the wind forces were much much larger than the forces caused by a plane impact.
 
interesting - what happened there? It looks like a controlled demolition.

I keep this in my personal notepad and use it for only the stupidest of posts. You earned this one.

facepalm.gif
 
Do you have a link where that pic is from?

I seem to remember a video of a CD showing a buliding that had the supports removed somewhere near the middle of the building and the upper half "one way crushed" the lower half....

Is that where your picture is from?

What thread was that post in?

 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom