Why a one-way Crush down is not possible

[GlennB]

Steel composite structures cannot be one-way crushed down by parts of themselves. I have 40+ years experience of those.

No you don't.

You have some years experience of insurance assessment of minor maritime scrapes, ships' welding and so on.

Stop lying. Lying is bad, m'kay?

 

[twinstead]

I really wonder when the ASCE Journal of Engineering Mechanics will publish my paper about the impossibility of one-way crush down of a structure by a part of itself? It was handed in 3 February 2009.

You aren't the only one who wonders. Frankly, I would be shocked.

Hold on though! Now it appears you have the esteemed Swing Dangler on your side. That will add to your already brilliant luster as a respected engineer. The Journal of Engineering Mechanics can't HELP but publish you now!

 

[AndrewIlluminatus]

Amazing how many experts believe in that magic, isn't it? Maybe it seems like magic to you because you have no idea what you're talking about and understand nothing about how the structure actually collapsed? That's usually how reports of 'magic' get started, you know.

Would that be "experts" in magic tricks, or military deception operations, or experts in rubbish, or experts in propaganda? Yes I am being sarcastic, because I do not believe in magic, or nationalism, or patriotism, or party politics, or religion, or experts, or TV propaganda, or elites, or oligarchies, or any faith based appeals to "authority". This, hypothetically speaking, virtually irresistible force of gravity being the only energy source of the hypothetical kinetic energy explosiveness, is asking rather too much of gravity, in my opinion. Energy has to come from somewhere and when you use gravity as the only energy input to convert potential energy into kinetic energy explosiveness, on such a dramatic scale, you necessarily create deceleration, through resistance. You cannot "have your cake and eat it at the same time" or turn "gravity" into an essentially irresistible force that can, apparently, simultaneously create additional energy out of nowhere to create this absurd idea of low resistance kinetic energy explosiveness. That idea is as stupid as so many imbecilic Americans believing in the Rapture, Obama, party politics, nationalism, patriotism, and these brain-dead-worms intoning loathsome meaningless drivel like saying "God Bless America" or that disgusting brainwashing "US pledge of allegiance" mantra, or imbecilic slaves "serving" in the evil US military! You can find "experts" in religion and all kinds of meaningless rubbish, including expert "scientist experts" who are apologists for evil war criminal neo-nazi imperialist regimes like in the USA that used 9/11 terrorism as a political pretext to mass murder innocent peasants in Afghanistan and Iraq. Innocent peasants who were certainly nothing to do with any 9/11 attack by (theoretically) 19 grumpy suicidal people who might justifiably "hate American freedoms" to murder Third World peasants in an orgy of "revenge collective punishment" through illegal wars of aggression. I have no idea what caused WTC1, 2 and 7 to blow up and fall out of the sky, in a virtually resistance free manner, but if it was "gravity" it was evidently not even being a consistent force for kinetic energy explosiveness on 9/11. Because WTC1 and 2 Exploded (kinetically or otherwise) in a virtually resistance free manner, whereas WTC7 Imploded.

 

[Heiwa]

No you don't.

You have some years experience of insurance assessment of minor maritime scrapes, ships' welding and so on.

Stop lying. Lying is bad, m'kay?

Want to bet? I started out 1966 in ship repairs (damaged ice breakers hitting too thick ice - thick steel plates, &c) and today is 2009? In 1965 I was working in a printing office (lead types) but I preferred the fresh air at the shipyard across the bay. And the steel!

Why do you waste your time writing posts like that? You are a little OT.

 

[Heiwa]

Except that his challenge was accepted, yet he basically refused to answer any of the posts. Couple that with the fact he backed out of actually paying any of the money he had promised, and you have a fraud. Way to continue your history of supporting frauds.

The Heiwa Challenge is still on ... another popular thread. And the money award? Still another thread. 2000+ posts = noone was able to collect.

And I answer every civilized post. TG for the ignore button.

 

[ozeco41]

...Steel composite structures cannot be one-way crushed down by parts of themselves. I have 40+ years experience of those. ....

Heiwa that statement is false and no matter how many times you repeat it it will still be false. Even if you reach an age where you are able to claim you have been doing it for 140 years the claim will still be false.

 

[Disbelief]

The Heiwa Challenge is still on ... another popular thread. And the money award? Still another thread. 2000+ posts = noone was able to collect.

And I answer every civilized post. TG for the ignore button.

No, as proven by your challenge thread. Did you respond to Myriad? He was more than polite, yet you seem to have lost your stomach when you realized he might prove you wrong. You also never proved you had the money, one of his conditions and only 1/10th your promised amount, even though you stated you would pay up. Your words are there for all to see.

I think he/she may have been sarcastic...

Guess not.

 

[beachnut]

Would that be "experts" in magic tricks, or military deception operations, or experts in rubbish, or experts in propaganda? ...


This, hypothetically speaking, virtually irresistible force of gravity being the only energy source of the hypothetical kinetic energy explosiveness, is asking rather too much of gravity, in my opinion.

...
That idea is as stupid as so many imbecilic Americans believing in the Rapture, Obama, party politics, nationalism, patriotism, and these

brain-dead-worms intoning loathsome meaningless drivel like saying "God Bless America" or that disgusting brainwashing "US pledge of allegiance" mantra, or

imbecilic slaves "serving" in the evil US military!

... evil war criminal neo-nazi imperialist regimes like in the USA that used 9/11 terrorism as a political pretext to mass murder innocent peasants in Afghanistan and Iraq. Innocent peasants who were certainly nothing to do with any 9/11 attack by (theoretically)


... 19 grumpy suicidal people who might justifiably "hate American freedoms"

... I have no idea what caused WTC1, 2 and 7 to blow up and fall out of the sky, in a virtually resistance free manner, but if it was "gravity" it was evidently not even being a consistent force for kinetic energy explosiveness on 9/11. Because WTC1 and 2 Exploded (kinetically or otherwise) in a virtually resistance free manner, whereas WTC7 Imploded.

Rant, and more rant based on your failed opinion.

So in your opinion the release of 130 to 150 TONS of TNT energy due to gravity is magic? Sorry, it is simple physics which you failed to use. Failure in gaining knowledge has made you a poster of super stupid ideas on 911. Good for you and saving all that time learning physics. Your rant on energy is pure hogwash. Super duper hearsay and lies are your best bet.

Calling physics idiotic is your right to be stupid on 911. How did you avoid gaining knowledge on physics?

God Bless America sounds better than killing pilots and running planes into buildings. Seems you support Saddam and have some idea he was connected to 911, he was not; we hated Saddam and we were being shot at by him after the first gulf war. You like the taliban too? Good for you. So you hate Bush and Obama? Your hate must be messing up your ability to figure out 911.

So I was a slave in the US military? Good for you sparky. Is this the best you can do for a weak delusional insult? Pathetic.

The WTC 1 and 2 did not fall without resistance; if you could do physics you would see the collapse time is consistent with momentum transfer. Got Physics? No you have your failed opinions on 911. No science just woo whoo whoo. Whining drivel based on hearsay, lies and delusions. Good for you. Thank goodness for freedom of speech or we would miss your delusion filled posts.

 

[Heiwa]

Heiwa that statement is false and no matter how many times you repeat it it will still be false. Even if you reach an age where you are able to claim you have been doing it for 140 years the claim will still be false.

Join The Heiwa Challenge and produce any structure that can one-way crush down itself.
So far NIST, NASA, FEMA, FBI, CIA, NSA, Bazant & Co have failed. If is easy, prove it. Do not just talk! Like them!

 

[Heiwa]

Did you respond to Myriad? He was more than polite, yet you seem to have lost your stomach when you realized he might prove you wrong.

I did! Haven't heard from him or his lawyers since. Why don't you prove me wrong, instead? Join The Heiwa Challenge for honour or go for the BIG Money at the thread with 2000+ posts.

 

[ozeco41]

Sorry for the omission! IMO believers in Judaism are just as stupid as believers in Christianity, Islam, gods, in magic, or nationalism, or patriotism, or party politics, or any religion, or experts, or TV propaganda, or elites, or oligarchies or any faith based appeals to "authority".

How does that influence the technical question of "Were the towers demolished?"

Do explosives have a built in sensor system so they know who fired them? Who positioned them? Who planned the operation? Who funded it?

I have this funny idea, but cannot cite a peer reviewed paper, that explosives have the same effect and are needed or not needed based on technical aspects only.

 

[beachnut]

I did! Haven't heard from him or his lawyers since. Why don't you prove me wrong, instead? Join The Heiwa Challenge for honour or go for the BIG Money at the thread with 2000+ posts.

You are too challenged to know you were proved wrong by the WTC towers on 911. You failed before you even began your delusional engineering web page for dolt ideas on 911.

 

[bill smith]

If they did I would condemn them but I normally have Christian filth turning up on my doorstep proselytising their disgusting sun god cult.

Andrew....a word to the wise. this particular thread has a specific subject which we are not supposed to stray too far off. The moderators here can be very strict. I''ve only nbeen here a short while myself and have fallen foul of them a few times. This is a link to another thread for general discussion where anything goes. Welcome to the forum by the way.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=126817

 

[leftysergeant]

This, hypothetically speaking, virtually irresistible force of gravity being the only energy source of the hypothetical kinetic energy explosiveness, is asking rather too much of gravity, in my opinion.

True dat. It was not the only input.

Energy has to come from somewhere and when you use gravity as the only energy input to convert potential energy into kinetic energy explosiveness, on such a dramatic scale, you necessarily create deceleration, through resistance.

The resistance increased only slightly as the structure being destroyed was more robustly built farther down the columns. But, at the same time, there was an ever-increasing supply of PE, being converted into KE with the collapse of each floor.

Do take the time to model in yopur head what actually happened. You are treating the towers like colliding ships.

Dumb.

 

[AndrewIlluminatus]

Andrew....a word to the wise. this particular thread has a specific subject which we are not supposed to stray too far off. The moderators here can be very strict. I''ve only nbeen here a short while myself and have fallen foul of them a few times. This is a link to another thread for general discussion where anything goes. Welcome to the forum by the way.
[/url]

Thanks.

 

[Tricky]

Moving a number of post over to AAH for bickering. Most were off topic too, but that topic might be okay for another thread in Politics or Social Events if you can manage to do it without bickering. I apologize if some on-topic stuff got moved with this, but there were simply too many posts to try to edit each one. If a point of yours was lost, make it again and leave out the personal attacks.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Tricky

 

[AndrewIlluminatus]

True dat. It was not the only input.

The resistance increased only slightly as the structure being destroyed was more robustly built farther down the columns. But, at the same time, there was an ever-increasing supply of PE, being converted into KE with the collapse of each floor.

Do take the time to model in yopur head what actually happened.

The way the WTC1, 2 (and 7) buildings blew up on 9/11 was interesting to observe so let us try a little thought experiment. There is nothing particularly special about acceleration due to gravity at 9.8m/s/s, I hope you will agree. We can achieve much higher accelerations than that with our machines. Since we can achieve much higher accelerations we can also achieve much higher collision speeds, momentum and sudden impact loads than the ones that you may believe caused all the damage on 9/11. Imagine if you can then, rotating a WTC 1 or 2 by 90 degrees and laying it down horizontally. Next, in the thought experiment, imagine that a great deal of money and energy and construction facilities might be available to you so that you can levitate the building like a Maglev Train (a linear electric motor system train). So there is no rolling friction and there are no wheels or direct interaction with the Maglev track. Back up the bottom end of the horizontal tower train against a vertical cliff face so that it cannot recoil when hit. Cut off 20 floors from the front end of the train and move this smaller train a few hundred yards up the Maglev track. Next get these 20 floors to accelerate as fast as you like towards the remaining stationary 90 floor rotated tower train and film the event. It would be an impressive crash to witness, even if the small 20-floor train reached say 100Mph before collision and had an acceleration rate much greater than about 10m/sec/sec. But as the floating 20-floor Maglev train hits the huge 90 floor stationary train it will start to decelerate, no matter how hard the linear electric motors keep on trying to keep up the forward momentum in the impact event. At this very high speed of impact we may even witness kinetic energy explosions between, the now vertical sheets, of concrete in the two trains coming together very rapidly. Now what happens in vehicle collisions when the two vehicles are both equally strongly constructed? The fronts of these vehicles begin to crush and absorb the energy of the impact. The 20-floor Maglev train is not made of stronger stuff than the parked 90-floor Maglev train, but of exactly the same stuff. Therefore the front ends of the two trains will be progressively crushed at exactly the same rate in such an imaginary collision. The interfacing concrete floors that (possibly) mutually explode in the "kinetic energy collisions" will be destroyed at the same rate. However the parked 90-floor train has a lot more floors to offer up to be sacrificed in these annihilating collisions. The impacting 20-floor train will have run out of floors to be mutually annihilated by the time it has eaten into the parked 90-floor train, by floor 70. Remember also that actually the back end of the 90-floor train is much more strongly constructed than the front end, the steelwork construction is much thicker and heavier at the back, so the smaller train would meet progressively greater resistance as it eats into the 90-floor train.

You do not like this idea simply because it is horizontal and you want the "gathering snowball" effect back? Even though perhaps 40% of the exploded material was ejected sideways and even upwards so was not added to the "weight" (mass X gravity) of the mass of broiling disassembled matter "falling" under the distortion of space called "gravity". OK try the thought experiment again at 45 degrees and then back up to vertical again, deceleration during the impact event will still occur. The official theory of two objects impacting, and exploding, without any really significant deceleration, is quite simply an impossible hoax concept and a pre-impact acceleration rate of 9.8m/s/s over a short distance is not even that impressively large. Compared to the kinds of very highly energetic collisions that we all know all about from our everyday experience.

 

[T.A.M.]

The way the WTC1, 2 (and 7) buildings blew up on 9/11 was interesting to observe so let us try a little thought experiment.

Oh boy, where have I heard that before. Oh yes oh wise one, show me the way. Show me where the scientists at NIST and the engineers were wrong oh holder of the knowledge.

There is nothing particularly special about acceleration due to gravity at 9.8m/s/s, I hope you will agree.

Apart from it being the basis of fundamental physics, no apart from that nothing.

We can achieve much higher accelerations than that with our machines.

Our? machines? okie dokie.

Since we can achieve much higher accelerations we can also achieve much higher collision speeds, momentum and sudden impact loads than the ones that you may believe caused all the damage on 9/11. Imagine if you can then, rotating a WTC 1 or 2 by 90 degrees and laying it down horizontally. Next, in the thought experiment, imagine that a great deal of money and energy and construction facilities might be available to you so that you can levitate the building like a Maglev Train (a linear electric motor system train).

Oh jesus, why did I know he was going to go down this well trod, beaten down path....AGAIN!!!

So there is no rolling friction and there are no wheels or direct interaction with the Maglev track. Back up the bottom end of the horizontal tower train against a vertical cliff face so that it cannot recoil when hit. Cut off 20 floors from the front end of the train and move this smaller train a few hundred yards up the Maglev track. Next get these 20 floors to accelerate as fast as you like towards the remaining stationary 90 floor rotated tower train and film the event. It would be an impressive crash to witness, even if the small 20-floor train reached say 100Mph before collision and had an acceleration rate much greater than about 10m/sec/sec. But as the floating 20-floor Maglev train hits the huge 90 floor stationary train it will start to decelerate, no matter how hard the linear electric motors keep on trying to keep up the forward momentum in the impact event. At this very high speed of impact we may even witness kinetic energy explosions between, the now vertical sheets, of concrete in the two trains coming together very rapidly. Now what happens in vehicle collisions when the two vehicles are both equally strongly constructed? The fronts of these vehicles begin to crush and absorb the energy of the impact. The 20-floor Maglev train is not made of stronger stuff than the parked 90-floor Maglev train, but of exactly the same stuff. Therefore the front ends of the two trains will be progressively crushed at exactly the same rate in such an imaginary collision. The interfacing concrete floors that (possibly) mutually explode in the "kinetic energy collisions" will be destroyed at the same rate. However the parked 90-floor train has a lot more floors to offer up to be sacrificed in these annihilating collisions. The impacting 20-floor train will have run out of floors to be mutually annihilated by the time it has eaten into the parked 90-floor train, by floor 70. Remember also that actually the back end of the 90-floor train is much more strongly constructed than the front end, the steelwork construction is much thicker and heavier at the back, so the smaller train would meet progressively greater resistance as it eats into the 90-floor train.

You do not like this idea simply because it is horizontal and you want the "gathering snowball" effect back? Even though perhaps 40% of the exploded material was ejected sideways and even upwards so was not added to the "weight" (mass X gravity) of the mass of broiling disassembled matter "falling" under the distortion of space called "gravity". OK try the thought experiment again at 45 degrees and then back up to vertical again, deceleration during the impact event will still occur. The official theory of two objects impacting, and exploding, without any really significant deceleration, is quite simply an impossible hoax concept and a pre-impact acceleration rate of 9.8m/s/s over a short distance is not even that impressively large. Compared to the kinds of very highly energetic collisions that we all know all about from our everyday experience.

blah blah...leave a message at the beep, this is a truther recording...

---------

FOR THE 5 MILLIONTH TIME! THE TWIN TOWERS WERE NOT TRAINS. THEY WERE NOT PIZZA BOXES!!!

You cannot in any way, expect the twin towers to function the same way during a collapse scenario.

For the love of god!!!

TAM

 

[AndrewIlluminatus]

How does that influence the technical question of "Were the towers demolished?"

Pretty clearly the 1 and 2 towers were very literally speaking "demolished" and they fell out of the sky in a ripple down explosive manner. Either by low resistance gravity fed kinetic energy explosiveness (gravity weirdly doing two things simultaneously without apparently converting much energy in creating the kinetic explosiveness) or by explosiveness by some other energy input means and gravity only really had the job of getting the already explosively disassembled buildings to the ground.

 

[Baylor]

It also explains why controlled demolition companies do not drop top parts of buildings to demolish them. It doesn't work.