Why a flood?

[tsig]

From Pauls' post:
What you have there from Jesus is the guide.

What was going on before the flood, you may have to read into Enoch to get it.

From what I gather from many writtings is, the fallen angels and men were doing genetic manipulation, not only animals and plants but humans.
The second thing is God buried the fallen during this time but not all of the fallen.
If he was not willing to put down all of them, then he obviously relented and didn't kill off all of humanity also.

In our time now, what are we doing to our food sources, animals and plants?
What is it that science wants to accomplish with humans?


Third did you ever notice how all abduction cases reported or 99% are about genetic manipulation, extraction of genetic materials and is horrific to those who are abducted?

Some of us they can't abduct.Those that they can't abduct but try to attempt to abduct, when pushed, have to answer our questions.

The one third that God didn't bury under mountains are still here, that is the simplest answer to the questions you have presented.
Because it’s true.
The things people all over the world see and the physics they demonstrate are the last of the demons/fallen...and the control they possess over sciences we haven't figured out yet is what they will offer to us sometime in the future with the great lie. There are things we aren't supposed to do; I believe genetic manipulation is definitely one of those things. Have you tasted the tomatoes lately?

Actually they can but you just didn't make the grade.

 

[pakeha]

The annual floods in Egypt wiped the slate clean and allowed for a fresh layer of "virgin" soil to be laid down. That was no doubt fascinating to the wandering goat-herders who had seldom seen a river capable of that kind of change. From there it was just a matter of elaborating on the tale around the dungfire.

Now that's an interesting idea, one that's new to me.

..snipped for space...

I'm impressed.
Not everyone can combine the flood, alien abductions and tomatoes in a single post.

 

[GlennB]

The annual floods in Egypt wiped the slate clean and allowed for a fresh layer of "virgin" soil to be laid down. That was no doubt fascinating to the wandering goat-herders who had seldom seen a river capable of that kind of change. From there it was just a matter of elaborating on the tale around the dungfire.

That was a thought-provoking post until you mentioned "dungfire". Then I just started wondering whether they squabbled to sit upwind of the dungfire.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

That was a thought-provoking post until you mentioned "dungfire". Then I just started wondering whether they squabbled to sit upwind of the dungfire.

I've sat around a few buffalo-chip campfires, they're not that odiferous. And they don't smell bad either.

 

[pakeha]

I daresay buffalo chips are one thing and spade-fulls of goat pellets another.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

I daresay buffalo chips are one thing and spade-fulls of goat pellets another.

Yeah, but I have had two experiences with camel-chip fires, back in the '70s along the Suez. Not a lot of difference that I could tell. YMMV

 

[Ethnikos]

My reasoning on this as I take other events into consideration is that God wanted to usher in a new dispensation based on a new set of laws that did not exist in the days before the flood. There needed to be laws before God can act!

You seem to think that the Old Testament deity person acted with the flood without a law.

The question to be asked is why did God destroy the world as is recorded? . . . So corruption and violence was the reason—corruption being the violation of the marriage Covenant—men taking any woman they pleased without a fixed union. Violence the indiscriminate killing of their fellow men.

The word translated as "corruption" just means deteriorated, and probably means that the worship system became ineffective, meaning insufficient sacrificial offerings being made to the system that was supposed to placate an angry god.
The word translated as "violence" means hostility, and probably applies to the people's resentment against the angry god demanding a tax to be placated.

Even though God did destroy all except those saved—we have quite an array of life today.

Which should indicate that no worldwide flood ever happened.

 

[pakeha]

I bow to your superior experience.

ETA
Slow typing due to munching a goat cheese based brekkie caused some confusion in the context of this post.
My comment is in reply to Gawdzilla's account of their camel-chip fire experiences.

 

[Ethnikos]

When I asked a very similar question, a believer speculated "maybe God was trying to make a statement that He really is capable of harsh judgement."

The description, or at least part of it, of how it physically happened seems to be a reversal of part of the creation process, where it would give the Israelite national god power to destroy what the universal creator gods made.

I am shooting in the dark, but I guess it is possible that God did it this way to really bring it home to the Noah clan how dependent they were on God. While the boat was floating around waiting for a bird to return they had some time to think about it all.

This would be a way to explain it if you think it really happened and that God wrote Genesis, otherwise, it would be the people of Judea who were supposed to be impressed, or maybe feel not so bad that they just had their country overrun by the Assyrians and the Babylonians.

Or. God had a lot of washing and cleansing rules. Maybe He thought the Earth needed a symbolic and literal cleansing.

Right, which would go along with the rules in place by the Judean religious leaders when Genesis was written.

 

[Ethnikos]

Anyone answering that may also wish to explain why not only did all human Egyptians suffer collectively during the Plagues on account of Pharaoh's misdeeds - which God made him commit by "hardening his heart" - but their animals too. So, for example when the firstborn were killed, firstborn domestic animals were included in the slaughter. What was that for?

That hurts the other gods, depriving them of sacrificial offerings, so the Israelite national deity is getting "even" against the Egyptian national deities.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Anyone answering that may also wish to explain why not only did all human Egyptians suffer collectively during the Plagues on account of Pharaoh's misdeeds - which God made him commit by "hardening his heart" - but their animals too. So, for example when the firstborn were killed, firstborn domestic animals were included in the slaughter. What was that for?

Bragging rights.

 

[Ethnikos]

When I last read through the bible, it seemed to me that Yahweh was constrained by certain fundamental rules.
Such as the requirement of sacrifice for atonement.

Of course. How else could humans (according to those ancient people), be able to influence a god, one way or another?
There were universal laws that regulated how gods must respond to humans seeking their presence and help, plus their responsibilities as gods.

And limits on how he could intervene. Always in a roundabout way, never directly acting on the main character of the story. God can kill people, but they're always friends/cousins/brothers/spouses/children/etc. But never the person who is being influenced.

Right, in order to teach them a lesson, but of course in the real world outside of the fables, it is to teach the reader or listener.

You are better-informed than I am on the bible, Tim. Which would make you a better judge of whether that's simply selective memory on my part, or some form of plot device, or something else.

Your perception seems on to me.

But perhaps the flood was required, because god couldn't directly kill on that scale?

I think that it gives more scale to His powers, to basically undo creation.

Or maybe it has to do with the gradual decline of his powers and interactions throughout the bible.

Maybe, if you were look at Genesis as being actually a late writing, rather than early, which people seem to automatically assume because it is at the beginning of the book. It makes Him out as able to affect the entire world.

 

[Ethnikos]

How about the rest of the world that didn't know about his laws?

I see no laws being spelled out other than to give so much of your income to a deity in the grove or whatever place you would normally expect a deity to meet up with people offering gifts to a god.
In the minds of the writers of Genesis, this concept of giving a god tax would have been universal and not something that has to be mentioned repeatedly.

 

[Ethnikos]

One of the things I think is interesting about the questions in the OP is whether the answers are stated in the bible, and whether those who believe in a literal flood can quote them, or try to make up an answer, or are ok with saying "I just don't know".

Most Christians relate to and see themselves as the people in the ark, and leave it at that.
People who seem to have a detailed analysis of it, I think are accepting a message with a
particular agenda attached, which is cult based.
There is a movement underway that is under the radar to most people, who use religion as
a form of psychological warfare, and use well meaning useful idiots as dupes to spread a
particular message, with the goal of making people believe that there is a law that God
demands all people obey, of course as translated by a religious officialdom.

 

[Delvo]

It's because all those other species don't matter. Only humans do. So even if there's not necessarily a reason to destroy all the rest, there's no reason to bother avoiding it either. And, looking at everything else as just a part of the humans' world, if you are going to destroy humanity, then destroying the humans' world is a part of that.

 

[tsig]

Of course. How else could humans (according to those ancient people), be able to influence a god, one way or another?
There were universal laws that regulated how gods must respond to humans seeking their presence and help, plus their responsibilities as gods.Right, in order to teach them a lesson, but of course in the real world outside of the fables, it is to teach the reader or listener.Your perception seems on to me.I think that it gives more scale to His powers, to basically undo creation.Maybe, if you were look at Genesis as being actually a late writing, rather than early, which people seem to automatically assume because it is at the beginning of the book. It makes Him out as able to affect the entire world.

That makes the gods sound like vending machines, humans put in the right coin and out pops a coke curse on your enemies.

 

[Darat]

The annual floods in Egypt wiped the slate clean and allowed for a fresh layer of "virgin" soil to be laid down. That was no doubt fascinating to the wandering goat-herders who had seldom seen a river capable of that kind of change. From there it was just a matter of elaborating on the tale around the dungfire.

This - add in that many early communities would live around estuaries and on flood plains (because of access to fresh water and plenty of food), then floods would be the catastrophe that they would be familiar with.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

This - add in that many early communities would live around estuaries and on flood plains (because of access to fresh water and plenty of food), then floods would be the catastrophe that they would be familiar with.

And the mythology would develop from the local conditions. We know the goat-herders stole or borrowed a significant amount of their own book of lies from other cultures.

 

[Ethnikos]

That makes the gods sound like vending machines, humans put in the right coin and out pops a coke curse on your enemies.

That's a pretty good analogy, I think.
I came to this realization after reading an essay on how the gods created religions.
"The rules" were known to the god, who gave them to the proper scribes to write down, to have the people carry out, in order to bring the presence of the god near to them.

 

[Delvo]

That makes the gods sound like vending machines, humans put in the right coin and out pops a coke curse on your enemies.

Well, gods are based on humans, and humans are pretty much like that: give them what they want, and they'll give you what you want.