Who was in on the inside job ?

Since arguments from reason and philosophy do not convince you, and gold would, what is the price that would convince you. How much.



I have already answered that exact question you posed Basque.
Allow me to update the variables and I will post a response shortly.
A numerical answer.

Money does all things for reward; some are pious and honest as long
as they thrive upon it,
but if the devil himself pays better wages they soon change their party
--Seneca
 
I have already answered that exact question you posed Basque.
Allow me to update the variables and I will post a response shortly.
A numerical answer.

Money does all things for reward; some are pious and honest as long
as they thrive upon it,
but if the devil himself pays better wages they soon change their party
--Seneca

You have no idea who did 911? Hint, it was 19 terrorists, I can name their seating positions on each jet; don't do crime using jets, they take your names and keep records.

Did you miss the real evidence. 13 years of failure and fraud from 911 truth, what next for a movement which prides itself with a name which has no relationship to the lies the movement spews out of ignorance.
 
...
There is no readily available answer for those ergo it is an unanswered question.
Correct!

Ask yourself why would they keep this information out of the limelight and why would the press not press them to answer those rudimentary questions I.e. rudimentary skepticism.
I'd guess "natsec".

Incidentally, I personally read about a potential attack by Bin Laden in a Jan. Time or Newsweek from 2001. Or was it 2000? Can't recall. The opening picture on the article in question? A cop in Times Square.

As has been demonstrated, over 100 of so-called debunkers such as yourself are so stubborn that you refuse to accept the logical choice because of ideological conflict, or, other reasons perhaps ;)
Appeal to Ignorance, ad hominem.
 
On purpose, because your argument depends on the unproven first sentence. Prove the premise, and then we can begin. Otherwise we're no farther along than you pulling "quotes" from a dark orifice.

You want me to tell you why it wouldn't take that many people, but you're not offering up why it would take that many. Since I'll answer your objection, will you answer why LIHOP requires thousands-and-thousands (an ambiguous phrase BTW).

It wouldn't take thousands-and-thousands to be accomplished because there were only so many Chiefs and Indians who would be intimately aware about sensitive Intelligence operations, including domestic ones and counterintelligence operations.

Do we know who the field operatives were or what they collected, saw or were aware of in the OBL/al Qaeda stations in the C.I.A. & F.B.I. or the other collections efforts from the N.S.A. & D.I.A. No, we don't, but according to government statements and all of the official and mainstream accounts of 9/11 History like Ghost Wars, there was not "thousands-and-thousands" of people working only on OBL and al Qaeda that would be the ones going out and getting the information or the ones the information is brought directly to, like Senior Executives.

The record on U.S. Intelligence Operations & Activities, Foreign or Domestic, directed against OBL/al Qaeda/other terrorist groups/Islamic fundamentalism in general is murky because although there are many links to be brought to attention, the links available are not the end of the story it is telling. So much has been and continues to be withheld in just those regards on this issue that maintaining, absolutely, that there is no reason whatsoever to question anything about it because you know, absolutely, that nothing we're purposely not being shown is bad enough to change the accepted narrative, the one you absolutely defend, in any significant manner whatsoever.

I'm more than ready to be proven wrong. I hope with everything in me that I would be proven wrong. The almighty trump card of National Security cannot be an unchallengeable habitually gone-to escapes from telling us what we actually need to know.

But you are so sure that there is nothing bad to be seen that you argue for the information being withheld in the so-called defense of National Security. The 9/11 Commission used pseudonyms in their report to talk about U.S. intelligence officers who had a cover to be protected. Why can't that be accomplished again but tell us what "Dane" did as a field operative in his pursuit of the known al Qaeda operatives living in the U.S. Where are the counterintelligence reports? Al Qaeda operatives were not and never have been as smooth as operatives from the Soviet Union/Russia, Israel, Germany, Great Britain, Jordan, China or Cuba, and the U.S. has stood against them all and everyone else who sends spies over here. The hijackers lived openly, open credit cards, phone numbers, and they were known al Qaeda operatives because the U.S., along with all of the other spies around the world watching the progression of events unfold, were aware of what the ********* were wanting to do.

The line that we're supposed to believe is that 9/11 was a surprise attack. It is an insult to someone's intelligence to really try and defend that canard. We're not supposed to be really skeptical about the claims we're supposed to believe, largely, without question because to question it is to jeopardize National Security. Last time I looked, the U.S. does not have a glass jaw. They have pulled that line so much that it seems as though the next stiff cold breeze will do us all in.

Sour grapes.

Often enough, the 'truth' is a bitter pill that is tough to swallow.
 
You want me to tell you why it wouldn't take that many people, but you're not offering up why it would take that many. Since I'll answer your objection, will you answer why LIHOP requires thousands-and-thousands (an ambiguous phrase BTW).

JayUtah didn't say anything in his last post about thousands and thousands for LIHOP. On the contrary, he asked you for a method of determining the exact number. You evaded this burden of proof and waffled around the question.

Another problem you've ben evading is the fact that domestic surveillance of terrorism is the FBI's job, whereas foreign intelligence is the job of the CIA. There were already joint task forces before 9/11 that supposedly combined the two agencies, but the systems to share intelligence were not efficient.

The first thing you need to state as a hypothesis is which agency started the LIHOP conspiracy. The CIA typically gets demonised in Jason Bourne movies and other thrillers, so we'll assume for now it was within the CIA. So, at what level of the CIA was this conspiracy hatched? The director? A deputy director, like in Tom Clancy's Clear and Present Danger? Or a section chief?

The senior players in the CIA (as well as the FBI) in 2001 are known personalities. The logical way to proceed with your LIHOP hypothesis is to consider and eliminate candidates, or to keep them in and search for evidence to suggest they might have been involved.

If the LIHOPers were not senior, then they were the proverbial 'rogue elements' - and we're back to Jason Bourne and Tom Clancy again. But if they were not proceeding with official sanction, then they stood a serious chance of censure, prosecution or suffering an 'accident'. These are powerful disincentives for any conspirators inside an organisation that would conduct internal investigations and also be subjected to public scrutiny in the aftermath of any successful terrorist attack such as 9/11.

The same steps have to be thought through with the FBI.

The null hypothesis here is the publicly stated one - that Chinese walls and a culture of secrecy prevented the efficient sharing of intelligence. This is a plausible explanation because it's not the first time that's happened. Both the CIA and FBI have had Soviet agents in place for prolonged periods whose antics weren't detected for years. They've both screwed up. So what evidence do you have to suggest anyone in either organisation deliberately LIHOP in the case of 9/11?
 
You want me to tell you why it wouldn't take that many people, but you're not offering up why it would take that many.

No, I want you to tell me how many people it would take in your scenario, and how you arrived at that number. I don't care about claims you didn't make.

The inside-job hypothesis for 9/11 requires that as of today, the secret has been kept airtight. You first tried to argue that this could be done, by means of proper incentive. But you then had to concede that this was impossible for any appreciably large number of candidates. There are just too many shades of gray in that kind of loyalty to fall under your incentive plan.

So naturally now you argue that the number of people involved was suitably small. But we have to decide whether this new claim is just a knee-jerk proposition for what would need to be true in order for your belief to hold, or whether it's instead a product of careful analysis and thought. Since you declined to provide a rationale for your quantifications, it's more likely you just pulled the proposition out of thin air as a retreat from the incentive argument.

Often enough, the 'truth' is a bitter pill that is tough to swallow.

And as soon as you are able to prove that your claim is true, you'll be able to gloat over things like that.
 
Why does it have to be a universal occurrence before it becomes important? A hypothetical situation was proposed. People can be gotten to. Not always, but can be. It is not a hard concept to understand whatsoever. Intelligence agencies use the carrot and/or the stick to recruit spies. This is a recorded historical fact.

Is a picture with words required to understand this?

Just to pooint out something, I think this is a major confusion of cause and effect.

Yes, spy agencies do recruit people with the carrot and the stick type of thing (threats and/or rewards). However, you've got the cause and effect backwards.

They don't decide who they want as a spy, then find that person's price. Instead they find someone who has a price, then make that person a spy. They don't get to choose the perfect person to turn, and the choices are almost always sub-optimal (I mean, really, why recruit a secretary or document analyst if you can get an agent in charge or the head of accounting?).

This assumption that "everyone has a price" is actually contra-indicated by the very examples you use to prove it; recruiting spies. The agencies know that everyone does NOT have a price, so they look for vulnerable people first, then carefully feel them out to find out if they're malleable. And they don't always get their way, often getting people that are less useful, and in some cases unable to get people in key positions at all.

Not to mention that often these recruits are just to pass on bits of seemingly insignificant information, not participate in the murder of thousands, hundreds, dozens, or even one.

And that leaves out entirely the possibiility of a double agent; and consdiering that pretty much the first thing you're told in any anti-espionage training, common to all military and most government employees, is to remain non-commital, neither agreeing nore disagreeing, then report it to your security department...well, the possibility of them running a counter-op is non-zero.

My guess? The 1 in 100 figure is proabably a good upper limit on the number than can be corrupted in such a blatant fashion. And my opinion of humanity in general is fairly dismal, at that. I just think they're more likely to be unthinkingly harmful than actively malicious.
 
I have thought that the CTs take things too far, but then again they have to.

A hypothetical conspiracy would only have to, in some plausible manner, suggest to OBL and Al-Queda that an attack on the US was just the thing to frighten the Americans and, perhaps, the way to do that was by hijacking airliners and crashing them into buildings. It would not even have to be directly to OBL, just so long as one of his associates came away convinced that was the thing to do and suggested it. Once OBL and AQ decided that was plausible and doable, the conspiracy could fade back into the background and watch.

In this case, the conspiracy could be manageably small. It will let AQ do all the grunt work, make all the arrangements, and carry out the attack. Minimum exposure to detection and if US intell or anybody happen to foil the attack, the conspiracy is still safe barring someone, in the know, convincingly spilling the beans.

This method would also mean that all CTs related to the actual execution of the attack would be null and useless. Probably why none of the CTers would entertain it. NOTHING that was seen or recorded during the attack would have any relevance to the hypothetical conspiracy if it let things unfold on their own.

So all the CTs HAVE TO include a hands on approach to the attack and aftermath (though why if there was no action taken or needed during the attack would they need to do anything to hinder the investigation?) else they would have to concede that there was nothing for them to prove.
 
I have thought that the CTs take things too far, but then again they have to.

A hypothetical conspiracy would only have to, in some plausible manner, suggest to OBL and Al-Queda that an attack on the US was just the thing to frighten the Americans and, perhaps, the way to do that was by hijacking airliners and crashing them into buildings. It would not even have to be directly to OBL, just so long as one of his associates came away convinced that was the thing to do and suggested it. Once OBL and AQ decided that was plausible and doable, the conspiracy could fade back into the background and watch.

Yes, that hypothesis completely explains why there is no evidence that the Girl Scouts were the real perps.
 
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In short, 9/11 happened because of an archaic, bureaucratic system that didn't encourage sharing of intelligence. And for the most part, administrators and most agents were still locked into their old ways and never adapted to new ways to fight terrorism (for example, the head of the FBI, Louis Freeh, had his computer removed from his office in 1998).
Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon's_razor

That article also has Sir Bernard Ingham's "Cock-up before conspiracy".
 
No.

Just because there are examples of people that have not been gotten to does not mean that people cannot be gotten to.

Well, that's fine because it isn't the point. The point is that not everyone can be gotten to, and that most people won't be gotten to perpetually. You simply cannot guarantee this, and the larger the conspiracy, the more inevitable the revelation.
 
Originally Posted by jaydeehess
Its a very good question for those who believe that everyone can be bought off to either keep silent or actually put forth information they know to be wrong.

I'd like to know if Jango, fonebone and Georgio can tell us if there is an amount of money they could be bought with in order to simp!y proclaim they are no longer in any doubt that 19 fundamentalist Islamic terrorists hijacked four aircraft on suicide missions , and that the result, directly or indirectly, was the destruction of the entire WTC complex including the complete leveling of three of those buildings on the day of the attack, the deaths of 3000 people, a big hole in the Pentagon, and the loss of an aircraft and occupants in a crash into a field in Pennsylvania? Of course this must buy their compliance for at least 15 years, but it need not require them to post on any forum after the first year. They can simply ignore the entire topic after that one year only proclaiming their feigned acceptance of the "official story" if directly asked.

I am not asking for a specific number, just whether or not there is such a number.
For Basque and JDHess

Thunder ( Parky )
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...79#post5786679

Fonebone
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...79#post5786679

Ypur answer is quantified in silver but the extrapolated cost of treason remains the same—
30 pieces of silver for every U.S. citizen betrayed ---
320,000,000 times $ 16.50 times 15.

"Thirty pieces of silver"
Burns on the traitor's brain;
"Thirty pieces of silver!
Oh! it is hellish gain!" _William Blane
 
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Since arguments from reason and philosophy do not convince you, and gold would, what is the price that would convince you. How much.
Just a note to inform you of my tardy reply. I believe
the malfunction has been rectified and my post is now visible to the forum.
My apologies.
PS you requested the answer in gold but I posted the numerical answer in silver.
I await your arguments from "reason and philosophy". Thanks
 
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?

14th year of solid failure, from 911 truth. Unable to decide who was on on the inside job = total failure.

19 terrorists did 911; did 15 of them know it was "last day". When did the 15 failed followers figure out it was the end.

What is coming into focus, 911 truth followers can be bought, with lies and they would keep 911 a secret and help do the inside job. How much did 911 truth influence 911 truth follower's fellow peers, the Boston bombers. How much damage and hate does 911 truth generate with the lies of an inside job, and who are the target inside job conspirators; us? Tony says is some of us; Balsamo is saving ammo for us... when they take over; when ignorance reigns, the Failed Reich of Ignorance and BS.

On the bright side, piano recital Sunday, two ~25 percent clones will shine.

Is the goal of 911 truth ignorance.

Imagine a world where 911 truth ruled; guess who is at the door, and going to the 911 truth FEMA came of woo - knock, knock.......

(note: to Jango, I am listening to music, and typing this, so I am "minimizing wasted time... " multitasking... + babysitting a bradpittload of grandsons _):
 
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