Who started both World Wars?

[uke2se]

It is from LewRockwell, libertarian central. But for you anything right of правда is unacceptable to you

It's a libertarian site. Libertarians are prone to lying, just like Nazis.

You seem too have trouble discerning between medium and message.

Here is the same text hosted on the libertarian Mises institut:

http://mises.org/journals/lar/pdfs/4_1/4_1_3.pdf

Harry Elmer Barnes: Pearl Harbor After a Quarter of a Century

Like I said, libertarians are prone to lying, just like Nazis.

 

[uke2se]

Nothing, I just pointed out to our Swedish friend here what the source of the devastating quote from the NYT was, namely that this Jewspaper itself admitted that Churchill and Roosevelt had been plotting for US war entry via the Japanese 'backdoor'.

In this post.

There's nothing devastating about the quote. You really need to learn what words mean.

I'd be embarrassed if I were you. Thank goodness I'm not.

 

[uke2se]

In case you're totally ignorant of history...

Is there any room for doubt?

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Is there any room for doubt?

'Bout the same amount as you'd find in a size six warmup suit worn by a size 24 woman.

 

[9/11-investigator]

No matter how long you've been denying reality in the Netherlands, you clearly still know nothing of Sweden, so I wasn't wrong. I wasn't wrong about you lacing intellect, integrity or rationality either, as anyone here can testify. Like I said, you know absolutely nothing about the situation in Malmö.

I can and do read about it and even store it on my harddisk, nicely ordered, for future reference. As a matter of fact, you were not around and yet give us your not so interesting opinions about it. Who is without sin cast the first stone, I would say.

Who cares. You're a Nazi now, no matter your political ideology in the past. Your sudden sharing of your past also has nothing to do with the South of Sweden being the center for radical right ideology in Sweden.

So you are to stupid to see that the rise of the radical right has something to do with the rise os the Islam in southern Sweden, thanks to doogooders like you? How stupid can you be!

And oh it is 'Nazi' now, no less, without the qualifier 'Neo'. Tell me, what according to your feverish imagination does a Nazi do for a living in 2010? Searching for Lebensraum in the East? Polishing his gas chamber in the garden?

No, I'm just a rational person who stands up against injustice, hate and lies - that is to say, I stand up to your kind of people.

You want to put different animals in one cage and that is not a rational thing to do at all. It is criminal neglect.

Lol paranoia. You wanna threaten some more people while you're at it? How about that little ol' lady you wanted to beat up on some pages ago?

I challenge you to quote where I said that I want to 'beat her up', this little neurotic Jewish nation destroyer. On the other hand I am glad that she spilled the beans, it is now all over the internet as a reminder of what we are dealing here with.

Please understand that "predictions" is not the same as "disturbed masturbatory fantasies".

I know history and what happened with multiethnic entities: they explode.
Tell me, why did not even muslim Kurds, Shia and Suni in Iraq live together in your silly love-and-happiness fantasy and instead went at each others throat? Don't you know how criminal dangerous you are with your apparent love for genocide? Israel-Palestinians: bloodbath. Hutu's and Tutsi's bloodbath. Yugoslavia: bloodbath. Sri Lanka: bloodbath. Sudan (muslims/christians): bloodbath. East-Timor: bloodbath. And here comes our little uke2se and he wants to see a bloodbath in Sweden as well. I think it is time for an international arrest warrant for you.

What you write on blogs has no bearing on reality. As you said yourself, 99% of Europeans (at least) disagree with you, and see you for the Nazi filth you are.

Who cares about your faulty masturbatory self-righteousness and your wishful thinking.I voted for the Jew Wilders and his PVV, now the second party in the Netherlands according to the latest poll:

https://n6.noties.nl/peil.nl/

So forget about your 99% wishfull thinking.

 

[9/11-investigator]

Oh, I meant to ask you, 9/11: what do your pseudo-historians say is the reason Japan invaded China?

Japan has no resources worth mentioning.
That is why they invaded mainland China.

Not to find WMD's, the alledged reason you guys like to stampede into other countries.
Or to prevent Germany from getting the German town of Danzig back.
Japanese are no moral BS-ters like Anglos.

BTW most European powers had colonies on the Chinese coast, but not the US.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Japan has no resources worth mentioning.
That is why they invaded mainland China.
Not to find WMD's, the alledged reason you guys like to stampede into other countries.
Or to prevent Germany from getting the German town of Danzig back.
Japanese are no moral BS-ters like Anglos.

So, rampaging imperialism is fine by you, as long as it's one of your nazi ideals?

 

[uke2se]

I can and do read about it and even store it on my harddisk, nicely ordered, for future reference.

It's obvious that you don't know anything about Sweden. Cherry picked news stories form the internet isn't "knowledge".

As a matter of fact, you were not around and yet give us your not so interesting opinions about it. Who is without sin cast the first stone, I would say.

What are you talking about? Hallucinating again?

So you are to stupid to see that the rise of the radical right has something to do with the rise os the Islam in southern Sweden, thanks to doogooders like you? How stupid can you be!

The rise of the radical right has absolutely nothing to do with the rise of Islam in southern Sweden. I know this because I live in Sweden and have an intimate knowledge of the country, something you lack. For example, there was another rise in radical right extremism in the early 90s, and we had far fewer Muslims back then than we do now. The rise of the radical right is caused by the economy. More people out of job, more people go to irrational extremist views.

But who am I trying to educate? You have too limited an intellect to understand this.

And oh it is 'Nazi' now, no less, without the qualifier 'Neo'. Tell me, what according to your feverish imagination does a Nazi do for a living in 2010? Searching for Lebensraum in the East? Polishing his gas chamber in the garden?

Lying about the holocaust on the internet, more like.

You want to put different animals in one cage and that is not a rational thing to do at all. It is criminal neglect.

Your views are sorely outdated and debunked. You should keep masturbating, fantasizing about Nazi victory. It's as close you'll ever come to that.

I challenge you to quote where I said that I want to 'beat her up', this little neurotic Jewish nation destroyer.

And I met your challenge.

On the other hand I am glad that she spilled the beans, it is now all over the internet as a reminder of what we are dealing here with.

Yes. It's all over the internet that the Jewish community in Sweden wants to help with integration of newly arrived immigrants. Only a Nazi like you would see that as a bad thing.

I know history and what happened with multiethnic entities: they explode.

You obviously don't know history, and you have no knowledge about multi-ethnic societies and what causes ethnic violence. If you did, you wouldn't be here making a fool of yourself every day.

Tell me, why did not even muslim Kurds, Shia and Suni in Iraq live together in your silly love-and-happiness fantasy and instead went at each others throat?

Because of sectarian disagreements. Has nothing to do with what we're discussing.

Don't you know how criminal dangerous you are with your apparent love for genocide?

You're the one in love with genocide, little Nazi-boy.

Israel-Palestinians: bloodbath. Hutu's and Tutsi's bloodbath. Yugoslavia: bloodbath. Sri Lanka: bloodbath. Sudan (muslims/christians): bloodbath. East-Timor: bloodbath.

A couple of more conflicts to add to the ever growing list of "stuff 9/11-investigator knows absolutely nothing about".

And here comes our little uke2se and he wants to see a bloodbath in Sweden as well. I think it is time for an international arrest warrant for you.

Lame strawman. Try to keep up your serious facade. When you let your hatred shine through you look absolutely insane, like I already told you.

Who cares about your faulty masturbatory self-righteousness and your wishful thinking.

Get your own material, copy-cat. Now, go back to wacking off over Swastikas and pictures of Adolf Eichmann.

I voted for the Jew Wilders and his PVV, now the second party in the Netherlands according to the latest poll:

https://n6.noties.nl/peil.nl/

Nobody cares who you voted for. We all know you're a Nazi.

 

[Shangrila]

Illogical conclusion. Maybe the rest of the leadership was not convinced that the US would intervene when Japan tried to get the oil elsewhere. Maybe they trusted that Congress would get it's way and would not give permission to Roosevelt to wage war against Japan. You know, there was a secret illegal understanding between the British, Dutch and Roosevelt about mutual cooperation in case of a Japanese attack. It looks like Yamamoto made the blunder of his life and that Roosevelt would have been highly embarrased if the Japanese had not attacked PH.

So it's perfectly logical that the entire evil plan of the Jews depended on a single Japanese officer risking his career by violating the chain of command, and blatantly misusing his personal stature on the eve of war.

A war that the rest of the government and leadership had already signed off on, including a surprise attack on American territory, the Philippines, which should be more than enough to get the U.S. at war.

Explain to me why the Americans or British had no racial integrity before the 1965 immigration desaster started to develop as a consequence of the murder of JFK? Even Hitler calls Anglos "Aryans". We have already seen from Mein Kampf that he did not see Japanese as Aryans. Aryan simply means white. European. Euro-American.

Oh please, the British are as mixed as they come. The English are a bastard mishmash of celtic, Roman (you know, those people from south of the Alps you can't take seriously), anglo-saxon, Danish, Norman, and French, and the Celtic nations making up the rest of the UK are no better.

And then the U.S. has all those blacks and Jews, plus millions of immigrants from Southern Europe, the Balkans, and Eastern Europe that came over in the late 19th Century.

Hitler was basically a multiculturalist, well a special variant of it, namely one culture per territory. But he refused to see the Japanese or Chinese as inferior. But that does not mean they have equal fighting strength. In my family there were quit a lot of colonials, Dutch people with a history in the Dutch Indies, present day Indonesia. One of them was interned by the Japanese. I remember vividly him saying, that although the treatment in the camp was harsh, somehow it was impossible to take these little fellas seriously. In the early sixties there was no such thing as political correctness in Holland.

Eh, but Hitler did not qualify his words. Surely, you would take what Hitler said over some random relative who was clearly beaten by those supposedly inferior Japanese.

OK, I have to qualify my remark somewhat, at some point the enemy can be so overwelming strong in numbers that the higher quality party loses. But you have to admit that the fighting spirit and morale was unbroken until the last minute of the war

So, give us your estimates. How many Slavs is an Aryan worth? How many Jews, Blacks, Italians, etc. Since the proper population numbers are all available, we can calculate just what odds the Germans were facing.

 

[Dave Rogers]

Japan has no resources worth mentioning.
That is why they invaded mainland China.

And there we have it. Invading other countries is justifiable if they have something you want, but opposing those invasions for any reason is tantamount to crimes against humanity; the morality of Nazism laid bare.

9/11-investigator, the one thing I don't understand is this: you clearly believe that everything is for the taking of the strongest, that the weak should give way to the strong, and that any refusal by the weak to accept the will of the strong should be punished in the most brutal possible way. You also believe that the Jews are succeeding in taking over the world. Even in the terms of your warped and revolting perversion of morality, doesn't that mean that you are committing a crime against the natural order by opposing the Jews, your natural overlords by right of conquest?

Dave

 

[Tolls]

And yet after Pearl Harbor the U.S. was only at war with Japan. It was not at war with Germany. It took Germany declaring war on the U.S. for the U.S. to be at war with Germany. And Germany was actually under no obligation to declare against the U.S. since Japan had been the one to strike the first blow.

Do you fancy responding to this 911?
After all you keep wittering on about how Roosevelt set up the Japanese so that they would attack the US and therefore force Germany into declaring war...except Germany did not have a treaty that stated that.

Will you admit to be very wrong on that?

Will you admit that there was nothing in the Tripartite Pact that meant Germany had to declare war on the US?

And therefore will you admit that that line of reasoning (and I use the term loosely) is wrong?

 

[9/11-investigator]

And there we have it. Invading other countries is justifiable if they have something you want, but opposing those invasions for any reason is tantamount to crimes against humanity; the morality of Nazism laid bare.

Baloney. I have said before that I could not care less about the Japanese empire, or Nazism, or Jewish Bolshevism. I am a Dutch European, who is happy with his nation but sees it under threat from endless invasions from the third world, destroying the fabric of my society, degrading it. Next I try to understand why this is happening. Answer: multicultural ideology imposed on us by our 'benevolent hegemon' the US, controlled by Jews. Next step: how can I fight this? Answer: attacking the story where this ideology and the US gets it's power from: the faulty explanation of the happenings of WW1 and WW2. The story now in place is a total distortion in favor of the alllies, or the governing Jews rather. The Polish crisis, the invasion of Western Europe, Pearl Harbor, Barbarossa, Nuremberg, it is all one pack of alllied (Jew) serving lies. But it is going to be exposed. Jews have no concept of Karma. Their leading idea is 'getting away with it', but Karma is a superior concept. The Dutch saying is: "al is de leugen nog zo snel, de waarheid achterhaalt hem wel" (if the lie is so fast, the truth takes him). And that is what's next on the program for the Jews.

9/11-investigator, the one thing I don't understand is this: you clearly believe that everything is for the taking of the strongest, that the weak should give way to the strong, and that any refusal by the weak to accept the will of the strong should be punished in the most brutal possible way.

That is total BS. To start with you are hypocritical. You fail to mention that Britain had colonies in China as well, so why are you on a higher moral level than the Japanese? Secondly: I am attacking the strong, America, don't I?

You also believe that the Jews are succeeding in taking over the world.

I do not say that. I say that they attempted to do that. First with the USSR and that attempt failed. And they will fail miserably with the West. And the most important factor why they will fail is the rise of the internet. Their media control is now neutralized, 'surrounded' so to speak. The coming out of 9/11-truth will be the catalyst of a total rollback of J-power in America and Europe. The 20th century essentially was the Jewish century. It started with the stealing of the FED and ended on 9/11. The 20th century is over.

Even in the terms of your warped and revolting perversion of morality, doesn't that mean that you are committing a crime against the natural order by opposing the Jews, your natural overlords by right of conquest?

You are a prisoner of your own faulty thoughts. Life is an endless sequence of football matches. Sometimes you lose, sometimes you win. Nobody has a monopoly on power. Empires come and go. Jews are not excluded from that pattern, as history abundantly shows. Why don't you give up your excessive racism of pretending being 'The Choosen' and pack your bags and move to Israel and concentrate on improving those horrible bagels.

P.S. I must give it to Dave that some aura of reasonability shines through his posts. As least he tries to understand. Dave is miles above the likes of uke2se. You hate me saying that, don't you.

 

[9/11-investigator]

Do you fancy responding to this 911?
After all you keep wittering on about how Roosevelt set up the Japanese so that they would attack the US and therefore force Germany into declaring war...except Germany did not have a treaty that stated that.

Will you admit to be very wrong on that?

Will you admit that there was nothing in the Tripartite Pact that meant Germany had to declare war on the US?

And therefore will you admit that that line of reasoning (and I use the term loosely) is wrong?

Interesting question. I indeed thought that Hitler was bound to do that. Says the BBC:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/december/11/newsid_3532000/3532401.stm

Then Adolf Hitler made his announcement at the Reichstag in Berlin saying he had tried to avoid direct conflict with the US but, under the Tripartite Agreement signed on 27 September 1940, Germany was obliged to join with Italy to defend its ally Japan.

Can you show us a document that says that Germany was not obliged to help Japan if Japan (was forced to) attack(ed) first?

He accused President Roosevelt of waging a campaign against Germany since 1937, blamed him for the outbreak of war in 1939 and said he was planning to invade Germany in 1943.

I agree with that as we have seen in this thread.
Well it turned out to be 1944/1945.

 

[Dave Rogers]

Can you show us a document that says that Germany was not obliged to help Japan if Japan (was forced to) attack(ed) first?

No, because that's not the way international agreements work. Germany, Italy and Japan were signatories to the Tripartite Agreement of 1940 (see http://www.historyguy.com/worldwartwo/tripartite_pact_axis_treaty.htm, for example, for the text). Since Article Three states that:

Japan, Germany, and Italy agree to cooperate in their efforts on aforesaid lines. They further undertake to assist one another with all political, economic and military means if one of the Contracting Powers is attacked by a Power at present not involved in the European War or in the Japanese-Chinese conflict.

and no other Article specifies military assistance in any other situation, the Agreement clearly does not bind Germany to assisting Japan in the event of Japan attacking another Power as specified. In the absence of any known international agreement that did specify any such terms, we must conclude that no such agreement existed. Which, of course, single-handedly blows the Pearl Harbor conspiracy theory out of the water.

Dave

 

[9/11-investigator]

http://www.ibiblio.org/pha/policy/1941/411211d.html

Indeed, in the German War declaration there is no reference to Pearl Harbor, to my surprise. The Germans correctly state that America intended on having war anyway, so the Germans decided to make it official.

The Government of the United States having violated in the most flagrant manner and in ever increasing measure all rules of neutrality in favor of the adversaries of Germany and having continually been guilty of the most severe provocations toward Germany ever since the outbreak of the European war, provoked by the British declaration of war against Germany on September 3, 1939, has finally resorted to open military acts of aggression.

On September 11, 1941, the President of the United States publicly declared that he had ordered the American Navy and Air Force to shoot on sight at any German war vessel. In his speech of October 27, 1941, he once more expressly affirmed that this order was in force. Acting under this order, vessels of the American Navy, since early September 1941, have systematically attacked German naval forces. Thus, American destroyers, as for instance the Greer, the Kearney and the Reuben James, have opened fire on German sub-marines according to plan. The Secretary of the American Navy, Mr. Knox, himself confirmed that-American destroyers attacked German submarines.

 

[9/11-investigator]

Which, of course, single-handedly blows the Pearl Harbor conspiracy theory out of the water.

Pearl Harbor was designed to get America into war with an ally of Germany, Japan. Roosevelt was not interested in Japan but in Germany. The main obstacle was Congress. I repeat:

Pearl Harbor was about Congress.

Roosevelt got what he wanted. From the same BBC link:

In the Senate the vote was unanimous.

Both Democrats and Republicans have agreed to "adjourn politics" for the duration of the war and focus on national defence.

They have passed a new law which allows US servicemen to fight anywhere in the world.

Roosevelt got his war against Germany via the backdoor Japan.

 

[9/11-investigator]

Again the proper time sequence:

The Tripartite Pact dated September 27, 1940.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tripartite_Pact

They McCollum memorandum 10 days later, October 7, 1940.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCollum_memo

The memo outlined the general situation of several nations in World War II and recommended an eight-part course of action for the United States to take in regards to the Japanese Empire in the South Pacific, suggesting that the United States provoke Japan into committing an "overt act of war". The memo illustrates that several people in the Office of Naval Intelligence promoted the idea of goading Japan into war: "It is not believed that in the present state of political opinion the United States government is capable of declaring war against Japan without more ado [...] If by [the elucidated eight-point plan] Japan could be led to commit an overt act of war, so much the better."

The Americans perfectly knew what they were doing when they imposed their oil embargo.

From the Tripartite Pact:

ARTICLE 3. Japan, Germany, and Italy agree to cooperate in their efforts on aforesaid lines. They further undertake to assist one another with all political, economic and military means if one of the Contracting Powers is attacked by a Power at present not involved in the European War or in the Japanese-Chinese conflict.

We all agree that the real intention of America (Roosevelt) was to participate in the war. It might be true that America did not fire the first shot (as Roosevelt was very keen not to do, as witnessed by the Stimson diary) but that he conspired for war anyway. The strangling oil embargo + set of demands to reverse it, could very well be seen as an act of war. But I have to admit that the clever maneuvering of Roosevelt paid off for America until this very day. Until the internet arrived, that is.

 

[Dave Rogers]

Pearl Harbor was designed to get America into war with an ally of Germany, Japan.

Well, yes, but it was designed by that ally. As you've seen, Germany was under no obligation to engage in the Japanese-American war, and as you've also seen, the German declaration of war on America didn't mention Pearl Harbor. So the causal connection you're trying to assert is not the one you think it is; the only reason the Pearl Harbor attack resulted in war between America and Germany is because Hitler chose to declare war, and a conspiracy based on a prediction that Hitler would react in such a way as eventually to cause his own death and the destruction of the Third Reich is not a particularly sensible conspiracy. Unfortunately for your fantasies, the historical record is clear on this; the war between America and Germany, in the Second as much as the First World War, was brought about primarily through German actions.

Dave

 

[dtugg]

Even if Hitler was legally bound to go war with the US because Japan was stupid enough to attack it (he wasn't), it is not like Hitler was the type of guy who could be counted on to honor his agreements.

 

[Dave Rogers]

Life is an endless sequence of football matches. Sometimes you lose, sometimes you win.

And sometimes, apparently, goals count against you even though they were scored in the following week's match.

Dave