Who started both World Wars?

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ddt said:
Not quite. It took Austria a whole month to come up with that ultimatum. During that month, there was intensive contact between Vienna and Berlin whether Germany would back it. In fact, Germany even pressed Austria to whip up the demands to unacceptable level. Which the one that Serbia rejected was: it stated that Austrian police should have investigation powers equal to Serbian police on Serbian soil.
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Um, that doesn't change anything I said, unless I missed something? And I'm fully aware of the "blank check".
 
Belz... said:
This is an odd statement. It assumes there is a reason for such demonization. I mean, the other opponents fought by the same powers throughout the 20th century were not so characterised. So why the Nazis ? Why would they go to such trouble to demonize them ? Defeating an aggressor would be enough, no ?
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Well, Japan was demonized during the war (at least it appears that way from various material I've seen from during the war), and I think the Japanese were distrusted for some time after, but their legacy isn't as negative as the Nazis.
 
elbe said:
Well, Japan was demonized during the war (at least it appears that way from various material I've seen from during the war), and I think the Japanese were distrusted for some time after, but their legacy isn't as negative as the Nazis.
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In the United States people in the '30s paid more attention to Germany than Japan. Thus the "body of common knowledge" is larger, and that gives more chances to "hate". Some people considered the attack by Japan on Pearl Harbor to have "come out of the blue", and had a hard time locating Hawaii on a world map. The Nazis, on the other hand, were part of a Germany that "has been giving us fits since 1914." And, of course, there's the whole genocide thing.
 
Gawdzilla said:
Um, that doesn't change anything I said, unless I missed something? And I'm fully aware of the "blank check".
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Well, the part that "Germany got into action after Austria declared war". It depends on what you phrase as "action". I'd see Germany encouraging Austria to pose unacceptable demands to Serbia also as "action".
 
Continue with Buchanan's book:

p.77 – THE STARVATION BLOCKADE
Why did Germany sign? Germany faced invasion and death by starvation if she refused. With her merchant ships and even Baltic fishing boats sequesteredm and the blockade still in force, Germany could not feed it her people. When Berlin asked permission to buy 2.5 million ton of food, the request was denied. From November 11 through the peace conference, the blockade was maintained… It’s architect and chief advocate had been the First Lord of the Admiralty. His aim, said Churchill, was to “starve the whole population – men, women, and children, old and younng, wounded and sound – into submission.”
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The effects of the blockade

Martin Gilbert provides an estimate of 762,106 total civilian deaths resulting from the blockade (Gilbert 1994, p. 256). R. J. Rummel provides what he identifies as a high estimate of 1,000,000 civilian deaths (Rummel, p. 230).

p.80 – So severe was the suffering that, on March 10, the British Command on the Rhine publicly urged that food be sent to the population as the specter of starving children was damaging the morale of his troops… Hi stroops, said General Plumer, could no longer stand the sight of “hordes of skinny and bloated children pawing over the offal from British cantonments”.
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Post-Versailles map of Germany

p.83 – But with families starving, Bolshevik uprisings in Munich, Cologne, Berlin, and Budapest, Trotsky’s Red Army driving into Europe, Czechs and Poles ready to strike from the east, and Foch preparing to march on Berlin at the head of an American-British-French army, Germany capitulated… “a huge crowd and two German delegates led like felons into the room sign their doom” was how an American observer in the Hall of Mirrors that day described it. “It was like the execution of a sentence.”
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The bolshevik uprisings were seen as the 'stab in the back'. Buchanan seems to accept the idea that the actions of lefties attributed to the surrender of the Germans. The Dolchstosslegende was an important factor in the rise of Hitler and German antisemitism. [btw: it looks like that Hitler missed the reason for the American intry in WW1 and that he solely refers to the lefty uprisings when he blames the Jews for Germany's misfortune. In reality it was much worse, if we are to believe Freedman, who was present at Versailles himself, unlike Hitler].

By forcing German democrats to sign the Treaty of Versailles, which disarmed, divided, and dissassembled the nation Bismarck had built, the Allies had discredited German democray at its birth. At Scapa Flow, naval base of the Grand Fleet in the Orkneys, northeast of Scotland, where the High Seas Fleet had been interned, Adm. Ludwig von Reuter, rather than surrender his warships, ordered them scuttled. With a signal from the flagship at noon on June 19, German sailors pulled the sea cocks, sending 10 battleships, 9 armored cruisers, 8 heavy cruisers, 50 torpedo boats and 100 submarines to the bottem. As the unarmed German sailors fled in lifeboats, they were fired on by enraged British sailors.
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p.84 – The Germans feld utterly betrayed – and blamed America… Men who believe in the rule of law believe in the sanctity of contract. But a contract in which one party is not allowed to be heard and is forced to sign at the point of a gun is invalid. Germany signed the Treaty of Versailles only when threatened that, should she refuse, the country would be invaded and her people further starved.
Though Napoleon’s foreign minister Talleyrand had been invited to Vienna to negotiate the peace of Europe, no German had been invited to Paris.
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Versailles is even by main stream historians seen as a provocation that lead to WW2.
 
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So/ How was the German U-Boat campaing not an attempt to starve the British into surrender? If they had gone with unrestricted U-Boat warfare from the start they might have done it.
If the German Navy had a proper stomach for a fight they could have maybe broken the blockade.
They came out to fight once at Jutland and ran away back into port where they skulked until the end of the war when they sailed into captivity and sank themselves.

Why didn't the German Fleet come out after Jutland and try to break the blockade?

Maybe germany should have thought about how to end the war while they still hade some bargaining chips.
 
elbe said:
Well, Japan was demonized during the war (at least it appears that way from various material I've seen from during the war), and I think the Japanese were distrusted for some time after, but their legacy isn't as negative as the Nazis.
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Indeed. Only the Nazis have kept this stigma. One has to wonder why, and I don't see any reason why Da Jews, as a whole, would benefit from this. It's not like they've gotten universal and everlasting sympathy over this.
 
Belz... said:
Indeed. Only the Nazis have kept this stigma. One has to wonder why, and I don't see any reason why Da Jews, as a whole, would benefit from this. It's not like they've gotten universal and everlasting sympathy over this.
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And it's not like it's the Germans as a whole, just the Nazi party. What would be the long term goal for anyone instigating unwarranted hatred on a political party that hasn't been in power for 60-70 years? That'll show 'em!
 
ddt said:
Well, the part that "Germany got into action after Austria declared war". It depends on what you phrase as "action". I'd see Germany encouraging Austria to pose unacceptable demands to Serbia also as "action".
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The infamous Blank Check.
 
And I note that our Investigator has cited Gerald Celente, well known economic crackpot, notorious for making predictions of doom that never come true, as a reliable source.
 
Key video of David Irving about Zionist influence on Churchill.

Video from 1995. In 4:00 and later Irving says exactly what Buchanan says 13 years later: the British should have told the Poles to sort their own problems out with the Germans.

6:35 Irving cites from a letter from Weizmann to Churchill asking for favours regarding Palestine. Weizmann says that he can bring the US into WW2 on the side of Britain just like we did in WW1. After Freedman and another person, here is the third independant source that reveals that it were the Jews who brought the US into WW1, and not this Lusitania BS, let alone the Zimmerman telegram.

Good that I watched that video again! Nice entry for my blog.
 
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9/11-investigator said:
Key video of David Irving about Zionist influence on Churchill.

Video from 1995. In 4:00 and later Irving says exactly what Buchanan says 13 years later: the British should have told the Poles to sort their own problems out with the Germans.
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David Irving. Really? You're citing David Irving?
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Gawdzilla said:
David Irving. Really? You're citing David Irving?
[qimg]http://rationalia.com/z/9-004.gif[/qimg]
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The world-wide most renowned historian on WW2.

Until he got unpleasant ideas about the H-word, due to Leuchter.
Then it was exit stage left with David.

But tell me Gawdzilla, is it really clever to defame a person just because he cites an easily verifiable quote from a letter to Churchill?
 
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elbe said:
Well, Japan was demonized during the war (at least it appears that way from various material I've seen from during the war), and I think the Japanese were distrusted for some time after, but their legacy isn't as negative as the Nazis.
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Don't get me started on Japan. Their legacy isn't as negative because they had terrific post-war PR.* Most notably, they convinced everyone to feel sorry for them because of Hiroshima and Nagasaki....despite the fact that the number of civilians killed there was dwarfed by the number of Chinese civilians killed by the Japanese.

There's a lot of people in China, but I'll bet you can't find one who would shed a tear over Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Rant over. Now we return to our reqularly scheduled anti-semitism.



*To be fair, it's also because the Japanese people quickly reversed their position on world domination and openly decried the actions of the previous generation.
 
Belz... said:
Indeed. Only the Nazis have kept this stigma. One has to wonder why, and I don't see any reason why Da Jews, as a whole, would benefit from this. It's not like they've gotten universal and everlasting sympathy over this.
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Holocaust survivors were stigmatized pretty harshly by fellow Jews whose relatives didn't make it out. It was felt that they must have cooperated with the Nazis in order to survive.

I wonder how this fits into the idea that the whole thing was made up? Seems like a lot of trouble to play-act on such a massive scale...ostracizing so many of your fellow Jews in order to advance the cause of Jewiness.
 
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