Who started both World Wars?

[MaGZ]

Well according to your friend, the Americans staged the attack to draw the US in. But you say someone else staged the attack to bring the US in

I do not claim 9/11 to be a friend and I do not speak for him.

Pearl Harbor was not a surprise in the sense FDR knew at some place and at some time Japan would have to fight the American fleet to obtain resources.

FDR tried to provoke Germany but failed so he baited Japan.

 

[applecorped]

George Bush started both of them.

 

[Thunder]

Hitler had to be stopped. America's infatuation with isolationism would have been our downfall.

I have no doubts that if America had not joined the war, and Hitler retained control of all of Western Europe, the war between the USSR and the Nazis would have gone nuclear by 1946 or 1947.

 

[MG1962]

I do not claim 9/11 to be a friend and I do not speak for him.

Pearl Harbor was not a surprise in the sense FDR knew at some place and at some time Japan would have to fight the American fleet to obtain resources.

FDR tried to provoke Germany but failed so he baited Japan.

But you both claim to have secret knowledge of the causes of the war, yet you both dont agree on that knowledge. That means at the absolute least. One of you is wrong

 

[Andy_Ross]

In fact during this silly Malvinas conflict the US took a mediating stance at best.

Apart from supplying 100 of the latest version of the Sidewinder missile to the Task Force before the US Air Force was issued any?.
Laser Target Indicators for the SAS and SBS.
1.5 million gal. of aviation fuel to the airbase at Ascension Island. KC-135 aerial tankers available to the RAF in Europe to cover RAF Tankers transfer to Ascension.
Anti Submarine Sonobuoys
US Air Force flying aggressor exercises with the Harriers on the way down the Atlantic to sharpen up their Air to Air skills against dissimilar aircraft?.
Or even passing intercepted signals and other intelligence to the task force commander?
Casper Weinberger offered the use of an American aircraft carrier in the event that one of the British carriers was lost.

Reagans UN Ambassador Jeanne Kirkpatrick viewed the anticommunist Argentine government as a potential ally in the struggle to resist the spread of Marxism in Latin America, she was guest of honor at a dinner held by Argentine's ambassador to Washington on the day the Argentinians landed in the Falklands. For a while Argentina's foreign minister, Nicanor Costa Mendez, considered invoking the Treaty of Rio de Janeiro, which would challenge the U.S. to honor its 1947 pledge to come to the aid of his country in the event of war. But Reagan allied the U.S. with Britain, leveling economic sanctions against Argentina and offering military supplies to the British.

Weinberger and Reagan were later awarded the British honour of Knight Commander of the British Empire (KBE).

 

[MaGZ]

Hitler had to be stopped. America's infatuation with isolationism would have been our downfall.

I have no doubts that if America had not joined the war, and Hitler retained control of all of Western Europe, the war between the USSR and the Nazis would have gone nuclear by 1946 or 1947.

If Hitler won in Europe, Charles Lindbergh would have been elected President in 1948.

 

[Andy_Ross]

You know perfectly well FDR wanted war with Germany first. That is why American ships fired upon German ships in the Atlantic: to provoke an incident.

On May 21, the SS Robin Moor, an American vessel carrying no military supplies, had been stopped by U-69 750 mileswest of Freetown, Sierra Leone. After its passengers and crew were allowed thirty minutes to board lifeboats, it was shelled and sunk.

On 31 October 1941 the USS Reuben James, a Clemson-class destroyer was on escort duty with four other destroyers, in the Pan American Security Zone escorting convoy HX-156 off Iceland, Reuben James placed herself between an ammunition ship and the known position of a U-boat wolf pack. Reuben James was hit by a torpedo fired by U-552 The torpedo blew off the ship's bow and her magazine exploded. The aft section sank within 5 minutes. Only 44 of the 159 man crew survived.

Germany didn't have any Ships in the Atlantic, only U-Boats.

They fired first.

 

[Dave Rogers]

While we're on the subject of stupidity, does anyone with a functioning brain believe that taking the Pearl Harbor attack out of history would result in no war between Japan and the USA? Or might the USA have noticed the Japanese attacks on the Philippines, Wake and Guam that took place at the same time, which (due to the availability to them of forces diverted in our reality to PH) would have been even more devastating than they actually were?

Dave

 

[Corsair 115]

Pearl Harbor was not a surprise in the sense FDR knew at some place and at some time Japan would have to fight the American fleet to obtain resources.

Correction: war with Japan was not a surprise, given the status of the diplomatic negotiations at the time.

Being attacked at Pearl Harbor was a surprise, because no one seriously thought the Japanese would have the audacity to sail three thousand miles across the Pacific to strike the U.S. Navy in its own home port. The Japanese themselves would not have had that audacity were it not for the insistence of a certain admiral to use that war plan.

 

[MG1962]

While we're on the subject of stupidity, does anyone with a functioning brain believe that taking the Pearl Harbor attack out of history would result in no war between Japan and the USA? Or might the USA have noticed the Japanese attacks on the Philippines, Wake and Guam that took place at the same time, which (due to the availability to them of forces diverted in our reality to PH) would have been even more devastating than they actually were?

Dave

No Dave - Wake Island was a Japanese response for the evil Americans shooting down 27 aircraft over Hawai, they were part of a group 337 aircraft on their way to Australia for a BBQ

To prove this, the American government rounded up 2500 US servicemen and shot them, then blew up 4 battleships

So if you want to persist with your incoherent ramblings I suggest you start thread in the CT forum

 

[dudalb]

While we're on the subject of stupidity, does anyone with a functioning brain believe that taking the Pearl Harbor attack out of history would result in no war between Japan and the USA? Or might the USA have noticed the Japanese attacks on the Philippines, Wake and Guam that took place at the same time, which (due to the availability to them of forces diverted in our reality to PH) would have been even more devastating than they actually were?

Dave

That is something the Pearl Harbor Conspiracy kooks forget:at attack on US Forces in the Phillipinnes would have meant war just as much as Pearl Harbor did.

 

[dudalb]

Correction: war with Japan was not a surprise, given the status of the diplomatic negotiations at the time.

Being attacked at Pearl Harbor was a surprise, because no one seriously thought the Japanese would have the audacity to sail three thousand miles across the Pacific to strike the U.S. Navy in its own home port. The Japanese themselves would not have had that audacity were it not for the insistence of a certain admiral to use that war plan.

In fact, they was considerable opposition to the Pearl Harbor attack from within the Japanese Navy as being a suicidal gamble with little chance of suceeding.
The Film "Tora, Tora, Tora," makes a point about the wide spread skepticism within the Japanese Navy about the Pearl Harbor attack.

 

[MG1962]

In fact, they was considerable opposition to the Pearl Harbor attack from within the Japanese Navy as being a suicidal gamble with little chance of suceeding.
The Film "Tora, Tora, Tora," makes a point about the wide spread skepticism within the Japanese Navy about the Pearl Harbor attack.

Definately - and why the third wave never went in - The commanders could not believe how lucky they had been

 

[9/11-investigator]

For the people who still need to be convinced that it were the Jews who brought the Americans in WW1, here an admission of yet another influential Jew to that effect:

http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v09/v09p261_Irving.html

By September 10, 1941, Weizmann was writing an extraordinarily outspoken letter to Prime Minister Churchill in which he again recalled how the Jews of the United States had pulled their country into war before, and could do it again.


Same link, about Pearl Harbor:

I come back to the fact that we were very probably reading the Japanese signals at a higher level then the Americans were capable of reading. We had been in the code breaking business much longer than the Americans. By 1940 we had 3,000 code-breakers working in our Bletchley Park installations, and we had sub-units operating, devoting themselves exclusivly to breaking the Japanese signals. They were compartmented so that each group didn't necessarily know what the others were doing. At a time when we had 3,000 working on it the Americans had 180! So it's no surprise that we were doing better than the Americans at this time. We were reading, I think, the Japanese fleet code JN25. When we now go into the American archives we find the JN25 signals that the Americans managed to break several years later, signals from three or four weeks before Pearl Harbor, which show quite clearly that if anybody read those signals they would know that Pearl Harbor was going to be attacked.

I think that it is a reasonable conclusion for us to draw -- a conclusion based on the fact that we are too ashamed to reveal any of our Japanese intercepts in the British archives -- that we were, in fact, reading JN25 intercepts in 1941. Churchill, in whose hands all of the threads of the intelligence community came together. Churchill, with his Olympian view of what was going on around him, was the man who insisted that the war intelligence be fed to him uncensored, unedited and unscreened. Churchill knew by the middle of November of 1941 that the Japanese were about to attack America, and quite probably he knew the attack was going to be on the Pacific Fleet in Hawaii. He probably never dreamed that it was going to be so successful as it was.

 

[jhunter1163]

Read up on that Zimmermann telegram yet, 9/11-investigator?

 

[9/11-investigator]

Read up on that Zimmermann telegram yet, 9/11-investigator?

Why should I? Non-event. Worthless as an explanation for what really happened. Only useful as war propaganda, to sell the war to the American public.

Zimmerman: if America attacks Germany, please Mexico, attack the US
US response: let's attack Germany for this telegram

That does not make sense.


Meanwhile source to understand how the Jews pushed America into WW2:

http://incogman.wordpress.com/2010/06/25/how-world-jewry-pushed-america-into-wwii

Source even refers to my 9/11 blog. Can you imagine that?!

 

[jhunter1163]

The Germans had resumed unrestricted submarine warfare, and had sunk a couple of American ships (the SS Housatonic and the SS California) already in February of 1917.

So your boys shot first, 9/11-investigator. No Jews involved. This is a simple historical fact. Of course, you've already shown yourself not to be overly concerned with facts.

 

[Matthew Ellard]

Churchill knew by the middle of November of 1941 that the Japanese were about to attack America, and quite probably he knew the attack was going to be on the Pacific Fleet in Hawaii. He probably never dreamed that it was going to be so successful as it was.[/I]

In this David Irving editorial, from IHR, he seems to have forgotten that "British" Hong Kong was attacked 8 hours after Pearl Harbour. If Churchill knew Pearl Harbour was going to be attacked using de-coded intercepts, but didn't tell the Americans, it is odd that he also didn't tell the British in Hong Kong using the same intercepts. He didn't know. Irving says "I think that what happened was this". Hardly evidence.

 

[Uzzy]

More propaganda from the ignorant layman. Unsurprising. Seriously guys, he's plainly said that he's not interested in actual facts, events or rigour in the historical method, but rather that he's just interested in creating anti-Semitic propaganda. I think all hope of conversation or discussion has been lost.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

In fact, they was considerable opposition to the Pearl Harbor attack from within the Japanese Navy as being a suicidal gamble with little chance of suceeding.
The Film "Tora, Tora, Tora," makes a point about the wide spread skepticism within the Japanese Navy about the Pearl Harbor attack.

Yamamoto Isoruku had to threaten to resign if he didn't get the attack. The IJA hated the idea, they wanted the carriers available for advanced air support. Only the guarantee that the Kido Butai would be returned intact to the "Southern Area" battle zones allowed it to go forward.