Who started both World Wars?

[9/11-investigator]

This...

Great... if there is a hell I'm now a lock for going because I just spent a good 10 min. lmao picturing FDR shouting " I must fix the time stream!" And going in really fast circles in his wheel chair.

was the childish reaction to what I wrote:

It was the jewish dominated Roosevelt gang who as a first act of government in 1933 recognized the most murderous regime in world history

I obviously meant "the most murderous regime in world history" until that moment, 1933.

My opponents however try to conceal the alliance of their heroes, the Roosevelt gang, with this most murderous regime in history (until 1940), by pointing to another regime that indeed was even more murderous. It is this simplistic sophistry by which they try to hide that there is no moral case to be made for the alllies. At the start of WW2, Soviet communism had made millions of victims, where Hitler had only made a few hundred. And this famous 6 million number was arrived at at Nuremberg, where these murderous communists were sitting with their sorry a**** on the chair of the judge, making this 'trial' a mockery of justice.

The Black Book of Communism

Harvard University Press; 1st American Edition edition (October 15, 1999)

Communism did kill, Courtois and his fellow historians demonstrate, with ruthless efficiency: 25 million in Russia during the Bolshevik and Stalinist eras, perhaps 65 million in China under the eyes of Mao Zedong, 2 million in Cambodia, millions more Africa, Eastern Europe, and Latin America--an astonishingly high toll of victims.

With the 6 million figure probably a lie and the real extermination camps being on the side of the alllies, it will be difficult to escape the conclusion that the wrong party won WW2. But hey, new game, new balls, new chances. We now have the internet!

 

[9/11-investigator]

DON’T BLAME HITLER ALONE FOR WORLD WAR II

http://www.ericmargolis.com/political_commentaries/dont-blame-hitler-alone-for-world-war-ii.aspx

Eric Margolis is not the only Jew who has revisionist views regarding WW2; we have discussed the historian Chmelnitsky in this thread. Margolis embraces Pat Buchanan's book about Churchill and Hitler and even Suvurow!

History is the propaganda of the victors...

The European parliamentary assembly (OSCE) recently held the USSR and Germany `equally responsible for World War II.’ After 70 years, it’s about time...

Underlining Moscow’s worrying rehabilitation of Stalin, Medvedev claims the Soviet dictator saved Europe from Hitler.

Medvedew is right of course, about 'saving Europe from Hitler', but it is highly questionable if we should thank the former USSR for this service.

But the facts say differently. Stalin was an even worse mass murderer than Hitler by a factor of three or four.

Obviously, Jewish Eric Margolis might be a staunch revisionist, doubting the H-word is a bridge too far for Eric. It's a matter of time. If historians could be wrong about nearly everything concerning WW2, there is no reason why the H-word should be excluded from revisionism on forehand. What did Eric say again about history?

History is the propaganda of the victors...

Exactly.

From digging in GRU files, Suvarov asserts that in the spring of 1941, Stalin was poised to launch 170 divisions, 24,000 tanks and thousands of warplanes in a surprise blitzkrieg against Western Europe, supported by mountains of munitions and more reserve armies from Asia and the Far East. The first target was Ploesti, Romania, Germany’s sole source of oil. Germany was also Italy’s sole source of oil. Losing Ploesti would have knocked both Axis powers out of the war...

But Hitler struck first. Learning of the Soviet threat, Hitler secretly massed his armies and attacked on 22 June, 1941. Operation Barbarossa caught the Russians flat-footed: warplanes on the ground, tanks on rail cars, munitions in the open. Soviet ground forces were quickly enveloped, cut off and destroyed in vast numbers. Had they been positioned in defensive deployments behind the Stalin Line, this rout would not have happened.

Margolis confirms implicitly that Holland needs to erect a statue for Hitler, since it was him who saved my country from being bolshevized:

I poured through Suvarov’s meticulous military analysis. To me, as a veteran military analyst, his figures appear to confirm that Stalin was just about to attack when Hitler pre-empted him...

Suvarov’s unstated conclusion: Hitler saved Western Europe from Stalin.

 

[funk de fino]

Margolis confirms implicitly that Holland needs to erect a statue for Hitler, since it was him who saved my country from being bolshevized:

A statue to epic stupidity and cowardness.

 

[VonKleist]

Out of interest, when is Hitler supposed to have learned of this Soviet invasion plan?

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Roosevelt recognised the Chinese government of Chairman Mao in 1933? I knew he was impressive, but now we can add time-travel to the list of amazing things Roosevelt did.

He said he was going to repeat what he said before...(really asinine stuff, over and over again.)

 

[9/11-investigator]

Out of interest, when is Hitler supposed to have learned of this Soviet invasion plan?

My opponents probably want to maintain that Hitler learned about it in between filling his 2nd and 3rd diaper.

Since it is unlikely that uncle Joe told Dolfie about it during their cordial weekly Molotov-Ribbentrop follow-up conversations via skype, we must assume that the Germans had a few spies in the USSR. It is not that easy to mobilize millions of troops unnoticed.

 

[VonKleist]

My opponents probably want to maintain that Hitler learned about it in between filling his 2nd and 3rd diaper.

Since it is unlikely that uncle Joe told Dolfie about it during their cordial weekly Molotov-Ribbentrop follow-up conversations via skype, we must assume that the Germans had a few spies in the USSR. It is not that easy to mobilize millions of troops unnoticed.

Which doesn't answer my question. Got a date?

 

[dudalb]

A statue to epic stupidity and cowardness.

I got a feeling the idea of a statue to Hitler will not be a popular idea in The Netherlands.

 

[9/11-investigator]

bump

 

[9/11-investigator]

Which doesn't answer my question. Got a date?

November 12-13, 1940.
That's the date that Hitler knew war with the USSR was inevitable.
That's the date that Molotov visited Berlin and started making outrageous demands concerning expanding the Soviet sphere of influence to the west.

There is only one voice recording of Hitler without him knowing that it was recorded, namely during a surprise visit of Hitler to his Finnish ally Mannerheim on the latter's birthday.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_Xf3l7RjBk

Transscript.

Therefore I aspired to, bridge the period of negotiations 'till we would be strong enough to, counter those extortive demands [from Moscow] because - those demands were simply naked extortion's. They were extortion's. The Russians knew we were tied up in the west. They could really extort everything from us. Only when Molotov visited - then - I told him frankly that the demands, their numerous demands, weren't acceptable to us. With that the negotiations came to an abrupt end that same morning.

It is obvious from these statements that Hitler's actions were triggered by seeing through the intentions of Molotov and the rest of the Soviet regime. He knew war was inevitable. Nevertheless Hitler expressed to Mannerheim how susprised he was by the amount of war preparations the Soviets had carried out.

P.S. Note with how much respect and empathy he talks with his Finnish ally and their fight for independence from Moscow. So much for tomorrow-ze-wurld phantasies.

 

[MG1962]

My opponents probably want to maintain that Hitler learned about it in between filling his 2nd and 3rd diaper.

Since it is unlikely that uncle Joe told Dolfie about it during their cordial weekly Molotov-Ribbentrop follow-up conversations via skype, we must assume that the Germans had a few spies in the USSR. It is not that easy to mobilize millions of troops unnoticed.

So if those spies were so well placed why did they miss the fact the Soviet army was about a 100 divisions or twice the size they thought it was?

And why had they never heard of the T-34

Oh and your recording of Hitler...I have doubts, very grave doubts

 

[Uzzy]

All that shows, nein/11 guy, is that Hitler felt war with Stalin was inevitable. (This after lengthy negotiations about spheres of influence, seems that Hitler was more then prepared to work with Stalin when his needs were met that way) It does not show any evidence that Hitler knew about a planned Soviet invasion, or that he took steps to counter it. You have no evidence for that because there is none.

 

[9/11-investigator]

I got a feeling the idea of a statue to Hitler will not be a popular idea in The Netherlands.

The idea of a statue of Hitler in The Netherlands in 2010 is just as ludicrous as the idea of Havel being the future president of Czecho-Slowakia in 1987.

Patience sir, patience.

 

[9/11-investigator]

So if those spies were so well placed why did they miss the fact the Soviet army was about a 100 divisions or twice the size they thought it was?

And why had they never heard of the T-34

Oh and your recording of Hitler...I have doubts, very grave doubts

We should abandon the idea that spies can have the same level of information about an enemy as the central command of said enemy has.

Nobody has grave doubts about the recording, friend nor foe. There was no voice synthesis in during WW2 like there was in 2001. It is Hitler's voice and the visit to Mannerheim is well documented.

 

[Moss]

The idea of a statue of Hitler in The Netherlands in 2010 is just as ludicrous as the idea of Havel being the future president of Czecho-Slowakia in 1987.

Patience sir, patience.

When pigs fly and the Herero build von Trotha statues then...

 

[tsig]

My opponents probably want to maintain that Hitler learned about it in between filling his 2nd and 3rd diaper.

Since it is unlikely that uncle Joe told Dolfie about it during their cordial weekly Molotov-Ribbentrop follow-up conversations via skype, we must assume that the Germans had a few spies in the USSR. It is not that easy to mobilize millions of troops unnoticed.

Except for Hitler:

But Hitler struck first. Learning of the Soviet threat, Hitler secretly massed his armies and attacked on 22 June, 1941. Operation Barbarossa caught the Russians flat-footed: warplanes on the ground, tanks on rail cars, munitions in the open. Soviet ground forces were quickly enveloped, cut off and destroyed in vast numbers. Had they been positioned in defensive deployments behind the Stalin Line, this rout would not have happened.

 

[Matthew Ellard]

Suvorov / Soviet Heavy Armour / German Discovery

9/11 Investigator follows the error ridden views of the revisionist writer Suvorov. The conventional view of history is that Germany underestimated the size and technological advances in Soviet heavy armour and that Hitler's political point of view blinded him to hard evidence that new Soviet armour reaching production, was superior to German designs.

In Spring 1941 a Soviet delegation, lead by I.F.Tevosian visited the German tank factories producing the PzKpfw IV. The German aim was to repeat its intimidation of the USA tank delegation lead by Charles Lindbergh, in that German tanks were superior. The Soviet delegation bitterly asked why they were not allowed to see anything more modern than the PzKpfw IV. Guderian heard this and wrote to the head of the FHO (which monitored Soviet weapon development) Col Kinzel wrote a general update saying "while there were Finnish reports of a new multi-turret tank it was nothing more than a derivative of the antiquated T-35.

Soviet Heavy Tanks / Steven J.Zaloga & James Gradsen / Osprey Books 1979.
Soviet Tanks / Uwe Fiest /Signal Publications 1973

My point is that T-34s & KV-1s were about to enter production. The KV-1 was slow and good defensive tank. The BT-7 and BT-5 are not mentioned in the German reports as they were thinly armoured fast reconnaisance tanks not suitable for attacking. Therefore Suvorov's conclusion that Hitler "knew" that the Russians were preparing to attack Germany is rubbish, not based on documentary evidence and does not fit in with the time line of events.

 

[VonKleist]

November 12-13, 1940.
That's the date that Hitler knew war with the USSR was inevitable.

November 12? So, 3 months after General Marcks submitted his initial plan for the invasion of the Soviet Union, Operational Draft East, to OKH.
And, similarly, 3 months after the ordering of Aufbau Ost.

There is only one voice recording of Hitler without him knowing that it was recorded, namely during a surprise visit of Hitler to his Finnish ally Mannerheim on the latter's birthday.


P.S. Note with how much respect and empathy he talks with his Finnish ally and their fight for independence from Moscow. So much for tomorrow-ze-wurld phantasies.

Hitler's attitude was not reciprocated by Mannerheim. When Hitler arrived at his first meeting with Mannerheim, he got out of his car and started running towards the Marshall. Mannerheim remarked to his officers "An officer doesn't run, only corporals do that."

There is also the, possibly apocryphal, story that at the meeting, Mannerheim deliberately lit a cigar, knowing Hitler's aversion to smoking. When Hitler made no comment, Mannerheim realised that Hitler was too weak to demand Finnish co-operation in the war with Russia, so felt able to refuse his requests.

 

[MG1962]

We should abandon the idea that spies can have the same level of information about an enemy as the central command of said enemy has.

So they were able to tell Hitler the date, and the plan. But had no idea what Stalin was going to use...hmmm convenient

Nobody has grave doubts about the recording, friend nor foe. There was no voice synthesis in during WW2 like there was in 2001. It is Hitler's voice and the visit to Mannerheim is well documented.

I have no doubt about it's authenticity. The tape has been around for 50 odd years. However the transcript offered...well thats another story, and having now checked my own sources, there are definately some liberties taken

 

[9/11-investigator]

November 12? So, 3 months after General Marcks submitted his initial plan for the invasion of the Soviet Union, Operational Draft East, to OKH.
And, similarly, 3 months after the ordering of Aufbau Ost.

Every fire brigade prepares for the worst.

World communism was the explicit goal of the Soviets.
Britain and France together had colonized 1/3 of the planet.
Hitler in contrast was an extreme nationalist and as a consequence had limited territorial goals. He wanted to unite all Germans in a single state with maybe some gains in the Ukraine and Baltic states as a 'bread basket'. After all Germany had lost nearly 1 million people as a consequence of the British starvation blockade directly after WW1. That was 3 times the registered 'holocaust' deaths in all German concentration camps (also as a consequence of allied war effort and brake down of food distribution chain).