Who started both World Wars?

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Quoted for truth.

We Europeans and the rest of the world need to exorcise ourselves from the Anglo (read Jewish) Beelzebub.

Thanks, you certify your fascist credentials nicely.

 

[twinstead]

Spittle-spewing bigots ROCK!

 

[dudalb]

I think his "Comparasions photos" link are enough alone to earn The Lying Dutchman a place in any intelligent's person "stupid bigot" file.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Narvik, where RN Destroyers shot the crap out of the Kriegsmarine, yup.

As it happens at the Rugby Club tonight a guy I was talking to had an Uncle aboard the Graf Spee as a prisoner while the Battle was on. He was put ashore at Montevideo and later repatriated and had a Libery Ship sunk under him a year later.

Graf Spees sister ships were not too glorious either
Blücher was sunk by Norwegian shore batteries. Lützow was heavily damaged and later sunk and re floated after being torpedoed and finaly sunk as an artillery target by the Russians.
Admiral Scheer did the best as a commerce raider but was sunk by the RAF in a bombing raid in harbour.

Hitler was like Napoleon, a General, he had no concept of sea power and how to use it. He was always worried about losing ships in action and it being seen as a loss of face or prestige. He even renamed the Lützow from the Deutschland in case it was sunk.

For sea power to work you have to be prepared to risk losing ships, if you keep them in harbour they are going to be sunk eventualy anyway.

There is always the argument that the German big units kept the RN tied down and as they were a 'fleet in being' the RN couldn't release the ships for use elsewhere. I have never seen the point of this argumewnt. What else were you going to do with the Home Fleet Capital Units? They were going to be at Scapa Flow waiting for action anyway, what else were they going to do? play at being oil tankers? ferry supplies?
Not that Germany had anything but commerce raiders anyway, they had too few captial Ships to risk a proper fleet engagement and too few 'useful' ships like destroyers to be an effective escort or coastal force. They never recovered from losing a few destroyers at Narvik whereas the RN built more destroyers in 6 months than the Germans had in their navy.

 

[9/11-investigator]

You didn't try that hard. I found Keitel's Nuremberg testimony in 5 minutes.

I can't post links. Add Http to the beginning of the following
//avalon.law.yale.edu/imt/04-04-46.asp#keitel2

Keitel says that he asked Hitler to ask the Russians to remove troops from the border, so that there would be some basis for the attack. Hitler rejects that and Keitel accepts that, since he's a good Nazi soldier. Then Keitel says that they had little knowledge of actual Red Army strength. The only thing they had was a document from January 1941.

And somehow Suvarov interprets that to mean Keitel thought the Soviets were going to attack?

Like I said, Suvarov lied.

So why do you need 2 documents if 1 is enough?

I am best reminded of how we, or rather the Army judged the situation, by a study or memorandum. I believe it is Document 872-PS, dated the end of January or the beginning of February, a report made by the Chief of the General Staff of the Army to Hitler on the state of operative and strategic preparations. And in this document I found the information we then had on the strength of the Red Army and other existing information known to us, which is dealt with fully in this document

And then we have the memoires of Keitel as a .pdf free download...

http://www.fpp.co.uk/books/Keitel/index.html

... were we read to our amazement on page 140:

As Jodl told me as we drove home, it was a continuation of discussions which he had first brought up with Jodl as early as the end of July. As I found out for myself, investigations were already in hand to see how far the transfer of several divisions from France could be accelerated:
the commander-in-chief of the army had been ordered by Hitler himself to concentrate a number of divisions in Poland, and to estimate the time it would take to move troops up to offset the considerable concentrations of Russian forces in the Baltic provinces and in Bessarabia – a circumstance which filled the Führer with strong forebodings about Soviet intentions.

Uhh, is this the way Nazis talk among themselves and behave if they intend to invade and conquor Soviet territory?

Of course not.

 

[9/11-investigator]

I think his "Comparasions photos" link are enough alone to earn The Lying Dutchman a place in any intelligent's person "stupid bigot" file.

Another smear by dudalb, as usual thin on historic content.

But tell me dudalb, is it true that the German leg of your genetic make-up moved to the US between 1933-1948?

Ah forget it, rethorical.

 

[9/11-investigator]

Narvik, where RN Destroyers shot the crap out of the Kriegsmarine, yup.

Relax Captain_Swoop. Nobody claims that the British are worthless, just inferior. And that you are nowhere without support of the Soviets, who had a system in place where they could send hundreds of thousands of people ('resources', I believe they are called in Anglosphere) to a certain death without scrupules. Somehow it seems an appropriate allie for people of your calibre and moral fibre.

Again:

In the defeat of Germany the effort was divided among the allies as follows:

USSR: 80%
Americans: 15%
Britain: 5%

In other words: nobody would have noticed if the British instead would have spent the war years on the beaches of Mallorca, as they prefer to do in peace time.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

In other words: nobody would have noticed if the British instead would have spent the war years on the beaches of Mallorca, as they prefer to do in peace time.

Yep, except Kesselring.

For non-bigots: The Heer kept NINETY-FIVE division along the Atlantic and Med. coasts because of the threat of English and American attack. They failed in that as in everything else.

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

I thought I was carrying this thread.

You also think the Nazis who dragged your own father into a slave camp were the good guys.

Africa has agriculturural land in abundance, mineral resources likewise.

And it gave rise to one of the first cultural, economic and military superpowers of the ancient world, one that was ruled by blacks for 10 times longer than the 3rd Reich lasted.

But you didn't originally bring up Africa, this is just a 10,000 mile goalpost shift.

You put up a photo of a polynesian tribe and another one of Werner Von Braun and deliberately implied that the differing levels of advancement between the two societies was solely due to skin color. What you showed instead was that you are completely ignorant of geography and how it influences the evolution of society.

Which is doubly ironic, given that "Lebensraum" was the reason your boy Adolf started the war in the first place.

Einstein is indeed a smart Jew... helped by the Jew controlled MSM who pimped him into an undeserved demi-God status.

Attempting to argue your way out of a hole by inventing new jewish conspiracies = automatic win for me.

Goddard was a fine Aryan American.

...who was targeted by german intelligence before the war and when he inspected captured V2s after war, announced that the lying, thieving germans stole his work. Von Braun even admitted that everything he built during the war was basically evolved versions of Goddards originals. The differences between the two being mostly better funding and jewish slave labor.

Had Goddard not died tragically in 1945, it would have been him in that photo of the Saturn 1B.

The Germans almost made it to Moscow,

...and then Russia woke up.

Kinda like the video games you used to play at the 7-11 while you were skipping high school. You'd have the main boss down to the last sliver of his lifebar then suddenly his shell would drop away, he'd grow four more arms, pop out of the cabinet, bend you over the Slurpee machine and make a woman out of you.

You folks will get history pushed in your faces like a 3 week old cream pie.

How's that thousand year reich thing going?

 

[332nd]

Insulting 'holocaust victims' in 2010?

Let me see, that must be a 90 year old, living (amongst others) on German handouts.

You need a new text writer.

The one I know is 93 and lives off the money he made as an eye doctor/sound investments.

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

In the defeat of Germany the effort was divided among the allies as follows:

USSR: 80%
Americans: 15%
Britain: 5%

You're forgetting a few people:

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

You're forgetting a few people:

[qimg]http://www.bombercommandmuseum.ca/photos/p_home1.jpg[/qimg]

Free French, Aussie, Kiwis, Indians, South Africans, Ghurkhas, and many others.

And the guy who wrote this book, among others:

 

[Shangrila]

There is always the argument that the German big units kept the RN tied down and as they were a 'fleet in being' the RN couldn't release the ships for use elsewhere. I have never seen the point of this argumewnt. What else were you going to do with the Home Fleet Capital Units? They were going to be at Scapa Flow waiting for action anyway, what else were they going to do? play at being oil tankers? ferry supplies?

They would have been awfully useful in the Pacific or Med. If Sommerville had another modern carrier and the KGVs instead of the Rs for his battleline, his chances of launching a successful night attack on the Kidou Butai go way up.

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

Free French, Aussie, Kiwis, Indians, South Africans, Ghurkhas, and many others.

And the guy who wrote this book, among others:

[qimg]http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/513VDD7Z22L.jpg[/qimg]

Not forgetting them, or at least not deliberately.

I have family on that wall I posted.

 

[9/11-investigator]

Another nice glimpse into what Hitler really thought.
Hitler never allowed recordings made of private conversations. Yet, we still have a clandestine recording (starting at 30:10) made in Finland when Dolfie made a 6 hour surprise visit to Mannerheim, the famous Finnish commander, who was celebrating his birthday.

Here is the transcript of that meeting.

This all naturally was inevitable, you see. I had a conversation with Molotov [Soviet Minister] at that time, and it was absolutely certain that Molotov departed with the decision to begin a war, and I dismissed the decision to begin a war, and I dismissed him with the decision to - impossible, to forestall him. There was - this was the only - because the demands that man brought up were clearly aimed to rule, Europe in the end...

Already in the fall of 1940 we continuously faced the question, uh: shall we, consider a break up [in relations with the USSR]? At that time, I advised the Finnish government, to - negotiate and, to gain time and, to act dilatory in this matter - because I always feared - that Russia suddenly would attack Romania in the late fall - and occupy the petroleum wells, and we would have not been ready in the late fall of 1940. If Russia indeed had taken Romanian petroleum wells, than Germany would have been lost. It would have required - just 60 Russian divisions to handle that matter...

Therefore I aspired to, bridge the period of negotiations 'till we would be strong enough to, counter those extortive demands [from Moscow] because - those demands were simply naked extortion's. They were extortion's. The Russians knew we were tied up in the west. They could really extort everything from us. Only when Molotov visited - then - I told him frankly that the demands, their numerous demands, weren't acceptable to us. With that the negotiations came to an abrupt end that same morning.

From these words it becomes clear that there was no pre-conceived Lebensraum acquiring plan that moved Hitler. He was countering the Soviet threath and nothing else. He knew from what Molotov had said that he was planning for the invasion and occupation of Europe.

To be honest, there is another thing to be learned from this conversation, namely that Hitler had planned to attack France as early as 1939 (obviously after France declared war on Germany) but that he was hindered by weather conditions:

And my whole - I originally wanted to - already in the fall of '39 I wanted to conduct the campaign in the west - on the continuously bad weather we experienced hindered us.

But we also know that he was forced to act in May 1940, when the British and French started to prepare an invasion in Norway.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Once again 9-11 forgets Africa, the Atlantic, the Arctic Convoys, the Med and the Far East. What can you say?

 

[Uzzy]

Free French, Aussie, Kiwis, Indians, South Africans, Ghurkhas, and many others.

I was rather surprised to learn recently that even the Brazilians sent 27,500 men to fight in the Mediterranean. It really was a global effort against the Nazis, not just a European one.

 

[CptColumbo]

You also think the Nazis who dragged your own father into a slave camp were the good guys.



And it gave rise to one of the first cultural, economic and military superpowers of the ancient world, one that was ruled by blacks for 10 times longer than the 3rd Reich lasted.

But you didn't originally bring up Africa, this is just a 10,000 mile goalpost shift.

You put up a photo of a polynesian tribe and another one of Werner Von Braun and deliberately implied that the differing levels of advancement between the two societies was solely due to skin color. What you showed instead was that you are completely ignorant of geography and how it influences the evolution of society.

Which is doubly ironic, given that "Lebensraum" was the reason your boy Adolf started the war in the first place.



Attempting to argue your way out of a hole by inventing new jewish conspiracies = automatic win for me.



...who was targeted by german intelligence before the war and when he inspected captured V2s after war, announced that the lying, thieving germans stole his work. Von Braun even admitted that everything he built during the war was basically evolved versions of Goddards originals. The differences between the two being mostly better funding and jewish slave labor.

Had Goddard not died tragically in 1945, it would have been him in that photo of the Saturn 1B.



...and then Russia woke up.

Kinda like the video games you used to play at the 7-11 while you were skipping high school. You'd have the main boss down to the last sliver of his lifebar then suddenly his shell would drop away, he'd grow four more arms, pop out of the cabinet, bend you over the Slurpee machine and make a woman out of you.



How's that thousand year reich thing going?

There is a great book on the decline of German science under the Third Reich called Hitler's Scientists by John Cornwell.

http://www.amazon.com/Hitlers-Scien...=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1282949873&sr=1-1

The main theme of the book is the relationship of ehtics and science.

 

[aggle-rithm]

In the defeat of Germany the effort was divided among the allies as follows:

USSR: 80%
Americans: 15%
Britain: 5%

In other words: nobody would have noticed if the British instead would have spent the war years on the beaches of Mallorca, as they prefer to do in peace time.

I'm sure the Japanese would have noticed.

Remember the Japanese?

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

I was rather surprised to learn recently that even the Brazilians sent 27,500 men to fight in the Mediterranean. It really was a global effort against the Nazis, not just a European one.

"The only new things are the history you don't already know."