Who needs heaven, anyway?

[evildave]

Yeah, and there's 72 virgins there waitin' for ya! Religious authorities said it. People believe it. Must be so.

And it's always Christmas in Heaven, too! And your birthday at the same time! And they already have Halo2 because it's Heaven, and it would be such a bummer to wait for it.

And I hear there's milk and honey in heaven. Hope there's graham cracker trees and lollipop flowers with marshmallow cream.

Whoopdy-friggin-doo.

 

[Wudang]

Christoph Luxenberg(*) suggests that the 72 virgins is wrong -the word "hur" in Syrian is a "white raisin" and may have been mistranslated. Tehy'd go nicely with the sherbet though - orange juice - very healthy but perhaps, like this life, the rewards are not quite what one may have anticipated.

(*) source: Francis Wheen "How mumbo-jumbo conquered the world".

 

[roger]

Now, not that I wouldn't want to live for a very, very long time, but not forever . Many people that I argue with don't grasp the signifigance of this, the immense difference between a few billion years (How long I'd like to live, as long as I could kill myself in case of emergency) and eternity.

I admit I can't wrap my mind around it. Heck, I've read a book, gotten to near the end, and realized that "hey, I've read this book before." I had NO clue. Memory is finite. Also, memory is memory, it mostly doesn't have qualia associated with it (some things you can relive as if they are happening). I've drunk a lot of water in my life, but each time I drink it again I don't think "good lord, how boring" - it's just as refreshing each time (let's not derail into 'would we feel thirst in heaven'). I guess I have trouble believing that I would start thinking that at 1b years. I could be wrong, of course.

Given a choice between my 70 years and an eternity arranged by a benevolent god, I'd take the latter without hesitation. Given a choice between 70 years and an undesigned eternity (meaning, might get nasty), I'd still take the latter, but with trepidition.

 

[severin]

So God makes you forget about all the people you cared about on earth so you can get on with adoring him? He is indeed a jealous god.

 

[wollery]

The Bible tells us the following about heaven:

1st Corinthians 2:9 However, as it is written: "No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love him"

So aparently, there's some good eye candy waiting for us. Teleporting between planets, the whole shebang. Space has no boundries; it goes on forever, so there's something to keep you busy.

You'll get to meet everyone from JREF (if you haven't met them already). Remember, here on earth all of your friends die. All them, no exceptions. And that my friend, really sucks. I wouldn't wish for one of my friends to die. But with heaven, you get a chance to renew those friendships, for eternity.

I wouldn't want the people who dislike me to die. But, some of them probably will die a second death, and there'll be nothing I can do about it. I hope all JREF'ers who dislike me get to go to heaven. Space is pretty big, so you do not have to see me. I will, however, most likely be running an espresso bar, making latte's and cappucino's for everyone.

My mom has pictures of me when I was like two years old at her house. Sometimes I look at those pictures of the kid (me) and I think "That kid has to die." Then I get really pissed off at that thought. The thought of that kid in the picture dying just pisses me off. Then, I remind myself that someone will pay for that one day. Satan will pay for it one day.

I'm definately planning on being in heaven.

Oh Riddick that's classic. You quote a biblical passage that says that heaven is beyond mans conception - and then go on to tell us what heaven is going to be like! ROTFLMAO

 

[KAW143]

And I hear there's milk and honey in heaven. Hope there's graham cracker trees and lollipop flowers with marshmallow cream.

Whoopdy-friggin-doo.

Okay. Now I'm really weirded out. We die and go to the Wonka Chocolate Factory.


Yipes!

 

[Riddick]

Yeah, and there's 72 virgins there waitin' for ya! Religious authorities said it. People believe it. Must be so.

And it's always Christmas in Heaven, too! And your birthday at the same time! And they already have Halo2 because it's Heaven, and it would be such a bummer to wait for it.

And I hear there's milk and honey in heaven. Hope there's graham cracker trees and lollipop flowers with marshmallow cream.

Whoopdy-friggin-doo.

There'll be Counter-Strike in heaven, the only worthy game.

 

[Jude]

Eternal youth... The only bummer would be if the universe fizzled out. Otherwise, it'd be pretty radical.

 

[evildave]

Originally posted by Riddick There'll be Counter-Strike in heaven, the only worthy game.

Bah! Why would you want to play such a pitiful 'virtual reality' game? You've supposedly got a deity who makes actual realities, so why not play the game 'for real'? Get killed, end up back in 'heaven' or whatever. Why not?

Or, even better, given an actual eternity to work with, why not 'spawn' in to the game as an infant getting squeezed out, and grow up, join the army (or the terrorists) when you get older, get trained up, and go to war?

After all, if that sort of mindless and repetitive play turns your crank, and you have an actual 'eternity' to work with, then why be in a 'hurry' to get to the 'action'? I like a little more story, variety and cooperative play in my games, but that's my preference.

Heck, maybe you just wanted to play a skiing game, but now you're mired in 'religion' side-plot, and having a flame war with someone who wanted to do creative things for a 'living', instead being out having the sort of fun you really wanted to have.

 

[billydkid]

What I suspect....

I don't want to end.

That doesn't mean I would never take my own life though, for example. There are times and situations where life or continued living doesn't have value. The cost is too high. I don't know for certain what I'd do, but I wouldn't want to 'exist' if that meant being in agony that couldn't be relieved, constantly (for example).

And for lack of a better word, I'm sure that most people wouldn't want to exist if that existance meant a constant torturious hell with no hope.

However, some form of afterlife where I continue on, as myself, without being sick, without pain. Sure, I'd love it.

I'm not a huge Ayn Rand fan, but I recall her saying in an interview after her husband died, that if she believed at all in an afterlife, she'd immediately kill herself to rejoin with her husband. I respect that statement because if I knew I'd exist happily as myself in some afterlife without pain or illness, I'd do the same. Being in pain isn't fun.

I've noticed that people I've talked with about this subject who do not want some form of eternal existence have basically come down to saying because experience is finite and existance wouldn't be, that eventually it would be a boring hell. I don't know about that.

I do know I don't want to end, and whatever amount of time I end up allotted will be too short, but I try not to obsess on that too much. Its inevitible, I'll find out the answers then, and until that time, I'll enjoy what there is. It's not to say I don't think about it, I do. Or that I don't worry about it, or fear it...I do. I really don't want to end. But in a hundred years or less (probably much less) I'll know for sure, one way or another. And non-existence only matters now, because when it happens, I won't be anywhere anymore to care.

What I suspect is this: that there comes a time, eventually, in most of our lives when we do, indeed, "want to end". Personally, I find the prospect of never being able to "end" even if you wanted to pretty frightening.

 

[sorgoth]

One of my greatest comforts in life is knowing I have an "off" button, that I can just say "Okay, that's enough. Bye!"

My greatest fear is being in a situation where I am unable to do that.

 

[Ratman_tf]

So God makes you forget about all the people you cared about on earth so you can get on with adoring him? He is indeed a jealous god.

In order to appreciate an eternal existance, would you have to be changed so much that the essence of who you are is lost? If so, it seems to me that a person wouldn't really continue at all.

This I have pondered more than once.

 

[A_Feeble_Mind]

My understanding of heaven was that it was the perfect place. No pain or negative feelings (including boredom.) Joy and love and positive feelings greater than you have ever felt, for eternity. The key is, you never get tired of this, you are eternally content, with your loved ones, forever. Catholics don't believe in hell (as mandated by da Pope) so all your friends and loved ones would be there. Infinite happiness.

So, I was a bit bummed when I realized it was all horse poopy.

 

[Polux]

Catholics don't believe in hell (as mandated by da Pope) so all your friends and loved ones would be there. Infinite happiness.

So how do they get there [heaven], if they're not Catholics? According to da Pope, mostly everyone makes it?

 

[A_Feeble_Mind]

So how do they get there [heaven], if they're not Catholics? According to da Pope, mostly everyone makes it?

Not really sure... I think it was more like hell was a state of mind or something like that. It was always one of those things you were never supposed to think that hard about, I suppose; you would just find out exactly how it was so great once you got there.

 

[JAR]

Re: Re: Who needs heaven, anyway?

I would. Frankly, I don't see why anyone would not want to live forever.

I agree. I find it mindboggling that there are people who actually would prefer to cease to exist when they die rather than have a nice afterlife.

I'd like there to be a heaven, but I don't believe there is one because it just seems pretty unlikely that there would be an extremely powerful being who would spend so much time making one. It seems unlikely that there would be a heaven and there's no hard evidence for heaven, therefore, I don't believe in it's existence.