Who is Dr. John Hagelin?

Great input from all of you. Thanks.
Eos of the Eons, you found some extra nice exerpts from the physicists from the movie. That's a big help.

Regards,
Yair
 
Eos of the Eons said:
Why do you want to know so much about the nutter anyways?
Click to expand...
I'm in the middle of a big e-mail discussion with a friend who is a big "the secret" supporter. All of his reasoning for this theory is pure blind belief mixed with anecdotal evidence. Of course all of my evidence is based on science and research so I had to find out who the is the physicist who supports this theory.

The discussion at first was fruitfall because while he stated all the usuall reasoning for this theory I crushed it one by one. For example he used the reasoning that it can't be false if so many people believe in it. In response I gave him the korean example of fan death belief. So he stopped talking about that. Then he said that humans only use 10% of their brain power so maybe the other 90% can be telepathic, telekinetic etc. In response I quoted a medical source which stated that the 10% is a myth and actually we use all of the brain or almost all of it. So my friend stopped talking about that too. For his anecdotal evidence of brain power and so called radiation coming out of our bodies to detect things paranormal I gave the test results performed on people who thought that they can detect when someone is looking at them. So now he's not talking about that either.
What he is left with now is pure inner belief that the theory works. He says "don't ask me how or why or to give you more evidence. It has worked for me in the past in many cases when I believed strong enough in something and that is all the evidence that I need".
The discussion is now at a place where I have nothing new to add since I'm clearly not talking to reason. He says "science doesn't know everything". Of course science doesn't know everything but that does not mean that we need to be believers in the paranormal. Has science ever prooved that rocks don't have feelings? No. But why should we start believing in that?

I'm afraid it's hopeless. Although one bright light appears in the far far distance. My friend had never come across data which he needed to supply proof of (duh) and he's very impressed with the research that I have done and the proof that I supply for every claim that I make. He says that it's the first time where he had to deal with such strong arguments.
Could there be hope for him?

Regards,
Yair
 
I don't know if there is hope for him, in any sense that he'll just start using the scientific method to evaluate information. Some people don't even know where to start evaluating, some don't even want to know. Wishful thinking is really more fun than reality (although I personally & oddly prefer reality).

I did an experiment on my own classmates. Our teachers would read us emails, and told us we should research stuff like that. So, I researched the emails they read to us on snopes and 'break the chain', and found them (unsurprisingly) very bogus (don't freeze water in plastic bottles, aspartame causes cancer, etc.). I thought that was what my teachers wanted me to do, but they quite often had arguments against what I found (saying aspartame is not "natural", so even though you'll find "natural" methanol/formaldehyde compounds in fruit, it won't cause cancer/Lupus like aspartame will). So, I stopped arguing with them, as they will be evaluating me for practicum postions, etc. But, in the mean time, the other students had learned how to look things up. So I sent them old emails on other myths (sodium lauryl sulfate, antiperspirants, etc.). I guess I caused a panic... ooops. I'm not exactly sure how they feel about me, but uh, I'm not feeling the love :p

So, if you can sneak in what you can without making yourself enemy #1, then you are doing what you can, where you can. That's admirable. Sometimes I just don't know if I should push it and create problems for myself. Nobody likes a know-it-all, and nobody likes to be shown they are wrong (unless they don't really care-and that would be awesome).

It's a prevailing issue among "skeptics". How far can you push the issue without causing yourself more trouble than it is worth? Do you want to be viewed as the "close-minded" one?

If your friend is still open to talking to you (as some of mine are after I debunk things), then there's hope that you won't piss them off so much that they stop talking to you at least. As for getting them to stop believing in things like the secret altogether, then you're probably bashing your head against a brick wall for nothing.

For now, you can show him that the secret's "experts" are out there, and that it's their opinions and not facts that got them as "experts". These experts are trying to show "something is out there", but failing.

John Hagelin's bouncing "fliers" are not levitating. All the wishful thinking in the world won't get you a brand new car just sitting in the driveway with a wrapped key in the mailbox. Somebody has to make and then buy or win the car. Chances are that if you do enter a draw and wish to win, that one time you might. However, some people want to feel they are in some control of situations like that, and a book is telling them that they can be.

Are these people dumb for believeing that stuff? Most people I know that believe in weird things are not dumb. They just want to believe, and latch onto things that confirm or endorse those beliefs. Some more than others may even accept that there is no basis for them, but it is what they feel is part of them. So, we must accept that everyone is different. Just be glad if you aren't ostracized for pointing out that there is another side to things. I like peppermint ice cream, and others hate it. Some people want to believe the impossible is possible.

As long as your friend isn't rejecting getting a broken bone set because he figures the universe will heal it perfectly as it is (all crushed into splinters and gangrenous) with wishful thinking, then view the conversation as fun. Don't view the conversations/arguments as a goal to change your friend's way of thinking.

The best part is when you can have those conversations and still part friends. Agree to disagree, and one isn't making the other feel as though they are completely stupid. I hate it when someone tells me I'm a moron for not believing their pet belief, and they hate it when you tell them they are stupid for believing their pet belief. Live and let live. C'est la vie.

I only wish more folks could just accept differences and not push their point of view on others in a way that tells them they are stupid and wrong just because they don't agree (or kill each other over simple differences in points of view).
 
He is also responsible for the development of a highly successful Grand Unified Field Theory based on the Superstring. Dr. Hagelin is therefore at the pinnacle of achievement among the elite cadre of physicists who have fulfilled Einstein’s dream of a “theory of everything” through their mathematical formulation of the Unified Field—the most advanced scientific knowledge of our time.
Click to expand...

He's solved the Unified Field Theory? Why hasn't he received a Nobel Prize?

He's worked too hard.
 
E of the E, I agree with every word you said.

Eof the E said:
Are these people dumb for believeing that stuff? Most people I know that believe in weird things are not dumb. They just want to believe, and latch onto things that confirm or endorse those beliefs. Some more than others may even accept that there is no basis for them, but it is what they feel is part of them. So, we must accept that everyone is different.
Click to expand...
My friend is definately not dumb either but wants to believe that he has full control of his life. That It is all solely up to him.

E of the E said:
So, if you can sneak in what you can without making yourself enemy #1, then you are doing what you can, where you can. That's admirable. Sometimes I just don't know if I should push it and create problems for myself. Nobody likes a know-it-all, and nobody likes to be shown they are wrong (unless they don't really care-and that would be awesome).
Click to expand...
That's a problem I have and I admit it. I get irritated very quickly with woo believers and argue with them to the death. I know for sure that I have lost some would be friends along the way because of this attitude but the skeptical side of me is stronger than my willing to compromise with what I call nonsense (woo).
I think in general women are more willing to compromise. My wife tells me to just let it go and let others believe in whatever nonsense they want to. I admit, I'm not at that point yet.

E of the E said:
I only wish more folks could just accept differences and not push their point of view on others in a way that tells them they are stupid and wrong just because they don't agree (or kill each other over simple differences in points of view).
Click to expand...
I wish too but how do you do that? How can you hear someone you know talk about the universe and what it will do for you or not do for you but not have a shred of proof for what they are saying? Personally, it drives me nuts.

There was a thread some time ago in this forum about skeptics being loners. I agree with that because most of the people around us have no scientific background or scientific way of thinking (skeptical thinking). So skeptics are trying to make everyone around them understand that words with no sound proof are just words which contradicts what most people would like to think about the world around them. And so us skeptics stay isolated from others unless we have the ability to let go of our skepticism around these people.

Regards,
Yair
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom