Who is Behind 9/11 and Why? (Chomsky)

[yankee451]

The underlying cause for Islamist extremist terrorists isn't our actions but their extremist beliefs. They simply use our actions as an EXCUSE for their bloodthirsty ways.

You can blame the USA and the Jews all you like.

We've murdered hundreds of thousands of people over the actions of our own leaders, if you want to compare extremist ideologies at least be honest about it.

Speaking of honesty, will you explain why you brought up "the Jews"?

 

[yankee451]

The civilian casualties of the drone campaign are reported. It's just that they are killed because they are living in compounds where terrorist training is on-going. Terrorists bring their families because it makes them harder to target (believe it or not there are more drone targets that are scrubbed due to the presence of civilians than are prosecuted. We never get credit for that.)

The thing that needs to be asked is what would an Arab Country have done were it in our shoes on 9/11 and had the exact same military force at its disposal as the United States? We know what Iraq would have done because they invaded two of its neighbors. We know what Iran wants to do because they keep telling us.

If the United States deliberately wanted to target civilians we could have done that from Omaha, or brought our Trident subs to launch depth. The truth is that if we were all about killing people we could do it cheaply and in under an hour.

But we don't...

I suppose it's too simple to ask "who benefits"?

"International Terrorism" wouldn't exist if it didn't benefit the powers that use it as a pretext for invasion and occupation.

 

[Skibum]

I suppose it's too simple to ask "who benefits"?

"International Terrorism" wouldn't exist if it didn't benefit the powers that use it as a pretext for invasion and occupation.

It is actually too simple of a question. "international terrorism" will always exist.

 

[trustbutverify]

Speaking of honesty, will you explain why you brought up "the Jews"?

Possibly because he's had a lot of experience dealing with spittle-ejecting conspiracy types.

 

[trustbutverify]

"International Terrorism" wouldn't exist if it didn't benefit the powers that use it as a pretext for invasion and occupation.

 

[JohnG]

I suppose it's too simple to ask "who benefits"?

It's not just "too simple" it's too simpleminded. It doesn't necessarily follow that those who who think they may directly or indirectly "profit" from an event are responsible for causing said event. In any case, the actual 9/11 hijackers, too, thought that they and/or their cause were going to "profit" from the attacks. So, since debunkers and truthers alike can point to perpetrators who, in either an actual or perceived way "profited" from the 9/11 attacks, I guess that "cui bono" isn't the quite the slam dunk you think it is?

"International Terrorism" wouldn't exist if it didn't benefit the powers that use it as a pretext for invasion and occupation.

One of the countless ironies lost on you is that many here would agree that the US invaded Iraq under false pretenses, but since the banal truth of what the Bush administration actually did to get us into war isn't satisfying enough for you, you feel the need to latch onto a perversely stupid conspiracy thriller/fairy tale.

 

[yankee451]

It's not just "too simple" it's too simpleminded. It doesn't necessarily follow that those who who think they may directly or indirectly "profit" from an event are responsible for causing said event. In any case, the actual 9/11 hijackers, too, thought that they and/or their cause were going to "profit" from the attacks. So, since debunkers and truthers alike can point to perpetrators who, in either an actual or perceived way "profited" from the 9/11 attacks, I guess that "cui bono" isn't the quite the slam dunk you think it is?




One of the countless ironies lost on you is that many here would agree that the US invaded Iraq under false pretenses, but since the banal truth of what the Bush administration actually did to get us into war isn't satisfying enough for you, you feel the need to latch onto a perversely stupid conspiracy thriller/fairy tale.

So in this case, "follow the money" to the people with the means, motive and opportunity doesn't apply, no that would be too simpleminded!

You guys kill me, really. You should have a comic show, or a magic act or something...no wait...

 

[yankee451]

Possibly because he's had a lot of experience dealing with spittle-ejecting conspiracy types.

I don't understand, is he afraid of Jews in general?

 

[dannyb]

The underlying cause for Islamist extremist terrorists isn't our actions but their extremist beliefs. They simply use our actions as an EXCUSE for their bloodthirsty ways.

You can blame the USA and the Jews all you like.

That's the self serving explanation. As far back as the Eisenhower administration it was recognised that there were hate campaigns against the US because of its actions in the region. It was concluded that there was little that could be done about this as the US should be looking to control access to resources through its support for dictators.

Pan-Arab nationalism was a secular movement and pre-dates Islamist extremism. It was our holding back of development in the region that thrust people towards religion. Accusing me of anti-Semitism is just a tired tactic, and very unbecoming of you.

 

[dannyb]

The civilian casualties of the drone campaign are reported. It's just that they are killed because they are living in compounds where terrorist training is on-going. Terrorists bring their families because it makes them harder to target (believe it or not there are more drone targets that are scrubbed due to the presence of civilians than are prosecuted. We never get credit for that.)

The thing that needs to be asked is what would an Arab Country have done were it in our shoes on 9/11 and had the exact same military force at its disposal as the United States? We know what Iraq would have done because they invaded two of its neighbors. We know what Iran wants to do because they keep telling us.

If the United States deliberately wanted to target civilians we could have done that from Omaha, or brought our Trident subs to launch depth. The truth is that if we were all about killing people we could do it cheaply and in under an hour.

But we don't...

I am not saying you are all about killing people, I'm saying it's seen as of little consequence when strategic interests are at stake. The point you make about other countries is a valid one, but you seem to have drawn a contradictory conclusion. Presumably you would condemn Arab countries or Iran for carrying out such actions, so why do you think it's okay for the US to do it?

The fact you think the US deserves 'credit' for halting some summary execution speaks to an imperialist mentality. Let's turn the tables again. If Iran decided to carry out assassinations against US politicians who regularly make threats of violence against them, would you support this?

 

[dannyb]

Possibly because he's had a lot of experience dealing with spittle-ejecting conspiracy types.

It was an outrageous comment, and totally unjustified.

 

[ergo]

The civilian casualties of the drone campaign are reported. It's just that they are killed because they are living in compounds where terrorist training is on-going. Terrorists bring their families because it makes them harder to target (believe it or not there are more drone targets that are scrubbed due to the presence of civilians than are prosecuted. We never get credit for that.)

Yeah geez, guys, children only get killed because they get in the way of the missiles. That ain't the U.S.'s fault!

Next we'll be hearing about how humane drone killing is.

Honestly, Axxman, you might consider not expressing your opinions at all. <SNIP>.

Afghanistan, Iraq Wars Killed 132,000 Civilians, Report Says

Edited by Locknar: 

SNIP, breach of rule 0.

 

[ergo]

Thinking back to this thread, I'm kind of wondering now if psychopathy is intimately woven in with belief in the US govt 9/11 conspiracy theory.

With the kinds of opinions expressed in this thread, it certainly seems to be.

 

[BNRT]

I seem to have kicked up quite the storm of feces. I apologize. I though my point was quite simple and universal.

Who are innocent in your morally superior world? Do hundreds of thousands of men, women and children from Afghanistan, Iraq, Syra and Pakistan however carefully avoided with "smart weapons" yet no less dead, count? If 9/11 was a pretext for their murders (it was), wouldn't that make the claim of "moral superiority" repugnant?

Any so called "Armed Forces" that deploys MOABs, Cruise Missiles and other various forms of "shock and awe" weapons of mass destruction knows they will kill innocent people, but that doesn't stop them from deploying them. Surely the "enemy" knows they weren't responsible for 9/11, so we're not fooling them with our moral superiority, are we?

Again, you seem to misunderstand me. I, me, this guy sitting here, have not tried to kill innocent people. I haven't set off a bomb in a busy bus, I haven't gone into a school with the intent of killing as much people as I can, nor have I asked or ordered anyone to do so. This makes me morally superior to people who have done so. That's the point I'm trying to make.

You might say that, since we're a democracy, I'm in a way responsible the actions of my nation. Still, I don't believe the Dutch armed forces are specifically out to kill as much innocent people as they can. Quite the opposite: from what I heard, the Dutch military did some pretty good things in Afghanistan.

Seems to me that if I had an army and was itching for a reason to use it on Enemy A, all I would need to do would be to attack some of my own innocent people and make it look like Enemy A did it. Isn't that how it's been done since before Sparticus?

Yeah, 9/11 delusions. I'm not even going t try to argue that.

But what about an innocent person who killed a trigger-happy cop in self defense? I'm betting different rules apply?

Why would you bet that? My stance is that I am morally superior to anyone who goes out of their way to randomly kill as much innocent people as they can. Not that all Dutch people, or all police officers, or every armed force are morally superior. Why would you assume otherwise?

 

[djlunacee]

We've murdered hundreds of thousands of people over the actions of our own leaders, if you want to compare extremist ideologies at least be honest about it.

Speaking of honesty, will you explain why you brought up "the Jews"?

You might want to reread this statement and try using some honesty yourself.

 

[Courier]

We've murdered hundreds of thousands of people over the actions of our own leaders, if you want to compare extremist ideologies at least be honest about it.

Speaking of honesty, will you explain why you brought up "the Jews"?

Murdered?

Who are these hundreds of thousands of people that we murdered?

 

[yankee451]

Thinking back to this thread, I'm kind of wondering now if psychopathy is intimately woven in with belief in the US govt 9/11 conspiracy theory.
With the kinds of opinions expressed in this thread, it certainly seems to be.

I'm convinced this is so.

One of the greatest feats in the history of civilized man occurred when a minority of sociopaths and psychopaths managed to convince the sane majority to emulate their behavior; it’s been downhill for humanity ever since. Civilization as we know it is the construct of psychopaths; this is why today we call mass murder “war”, and mass murderers “war heroes”. We exalt our leaders who are able to keep a stiff upper lip while they kill women and children across the world and even in our entertainment we idolize people who are able to fake emotions and pretend they are someone else; while most of our video games require our children to perform more and more psychotic acts. We’re trained from birth to be psychos.

http://yankee451.com/2012/02/28/911-for-psychos/

 

[Courier]

I suppose it's too simple to ask "who benefits"?

"International Terrorism" wouldn't exist if it didn't benefit the powers that use it as a pretext for invasion and occupation.

Irrational Islamic extremists felt that they would benefit from 9-11 as it would lead to American wars in the Middle East and a resounding defeat for America by Muslim soldiers of Allah.

They were wrong. But they did truly believe that they would benefit from 9-11.

 

[djlunacee]

Murdered?

Who are these hundreds of thousands of people that we murdered?

Truth is, he won't even understand the mistake in his statement.

 

[Nick Terry]

So in this case, "follow the money" to the people with the means, motive and opportunity doesn't apply, no that would be too simpleminded!

What means?
What motive?
What opportunity?

There hasn't been a Truther who has provided a satisfactory answer to all three questions and provided a coherent alternative explanation. Heck, the contradictions over 'means' alone have been the source of endless entertainment in this sub-forum for years.