Who Disrespects NYPD & NYFD

[Trigood]

Robertson is a liar then because the port authority considered 600 mph, which is the sensible thing to do seeing as it is the planes top speed.

As has already been pointed out, the same document Jessica linked to says in bold print:

"NIST found no documentary evidence of any analysis supporting this conclusion."

The actual analysis was never found. It's the proverbial mathematical proof that someone claims they did, but cannot provide. Therefore, any argument based on the validity of the 600 mph value has, itself, no validity. Just as any subsequent proof based on the merely claimed proof would have no validity.

In addition, the documents that were found showed that "the effect of the subsequent fires was not considered."

Corresponding, in our mathematical proof analogy, not only to a proof that has gone missing, but also to a situation where all remaining documents that reference the supposed proof indicate that certain very basic principles of mathematics were ignored.

Fires were pretty basic to the plane-impact scenario, especially when large amounts of jet fuel were present. The fires were ignored.

Jessica, although the PA may have considered 600 mph, there remain no records of any rigorous argument that such an impact and subsequent fires would have let the tower stand indefinitely.

Thus, all your calculations and comparisons to the actual event are meaningless.

(Sorry for jumping in and responding to a mid-thread post. I have not read the entire thread as it is too voluminous for me to finish right now.)

 

[delphi_ote]

Assuming these individual probabilities, the aggregate probability for success in the attack would be:

1/2 * 1/3 * 1/4 * 1/4 * 1/2 * 1/3 * 1/8 * 1/8 * 1/2 * 1/2 * 1/4 = 1/589824

This computation ignores the many other improbable events that worked in favor of the attackers, such as the unprecedented (alleged) crumbling of the steel-framed skyscrapers of the World Trade Center.

Oh yea? The odds of a boy being born are roughly 1/2. The number of males in the United States is roughly 150,000,000.

1/2 * 1/2 * 1/2 * 1/2... (150,000,000 times) ... * 1/2 = .00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000...

And I didn't even take into account the number of girls in the population! IMPOSSIBLE!!!

 

[Regnad Kcin]

More irrelevant crap. Give me evidence.

Look, it's Marvel Comics' new superhero...

Ironyman!

 

[Regnad Kcin]

See how it works? Make a claim, present your evidence. Why is this so difficult for you people to understand? You're posting on a forum for critical thinkers, not credophiles.

Please present your evidence that 9/11 was not a conspiracy.

Either MIHOP or LIHOP in detail.

Otherwise cease from referring to people who consider it as a possibility in derogatory terms.

Oh, please.

 

[Regnad Kcin]

INTERLUDE:

YOU guys operate in a very shady manner in my opinion.

YOU have no evidence.

YOU can't verify the veracity of the few reports you do have.

YOU cherry pick.

YOU resort to false accusations and name calling when your argument breaks down.

YOU are not open to any possibility other than your current belief in my opinion so far.

YOU presume to demand responses from us when you have no right to do so.

YOU have serious double standard issues.

I see it clearly and you will get the respect from me that hypocrisy deserves.

Russell

Oh, please -- pt. 2.

 

[Regnad Kcin]

Russell their spin tactics remind me of President clinton whe he was trying to say Oral was not sexual relations.

Strictly speaking, oral sex is not "sexual relations."

 

[Regnad Kcin]

I started here with the benefit of the doubt for [various posters in the JREF forums].

But after time and watching the endless repetition of the same strategy over and over and over without acknowledging new information does make me wonder.

I agree with you.

Linguistic gymnastics.

My belief in 9/11 conspiracy has been seriously fortified by their lack of anything substantial except for a few detail corrections.

The good news is they have served to motivate and inform me so as to increase my efforts to expose this further.

If this is the evidence for no conspiracy then no wonder 83% of Americans doubt the official story in one manner or another.

Oh, please -- pt. 3.

 

[Regnad Kcin]

Gravy tries to preclude people form believing in a conspiracy.

Really? That looks an awful lot like a lie.

I don't not preclude people from believing in a non conspiracy. I believe all sides should be heard.

"Sides?"

So fiction and truth "should be heard?" For how long? And to what purpose?

Information control is a scary thing.

And it's Halloween!

 

[Regnad Kcin]

We don't want to convert you hun, we only wan't a certain calibre of people on our side.

Interesting. What "calibre" would that be? And what, may I ask, is your "side?"

 

[Regnad Kcin]

Yes I have a vested interest in promoting the conspiracy consideration for people too think about side by side with its options since I firmly believe it myself. I also believe if I am right that it has serious implications for the future.

Mostly it is grief not reward.

If you in any way, shape, or form propose that any of the three NYC buildings were destroyed by a method of controlled demolition, I look forward to your proof. Not conjecture, not questions, not arrogant tirades. Proof.

I've said it before, and it bears repeating every once in a while:

Considering what advocates of a 9/11/01 "inside job" propose would be the largest undertaking of its kind in the history of man -- not only to conceive & plot, but also to carry out, and continue to cover up for the rest of time -- proof should be plentiful. That there isn't even a little bit might be cause for contemplation.

 

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

Garb,

Please stay informed.

A response is not an initial attack.

Read this thread: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66233

example: "Ok we've licked eachother's sacks for long enough. Bottom line, you're a nut who thinks the government did 9/11. Out with it."

(It was apologized for later.)

Gravy tries to preclude people form believing in a conspiracy. I don't not preclude people from believing in a non conspiracy. I believe all sides should be heard.

Information control is a scary thing.

...
Not even wrong. What could be worse? Being wronger than wrong, or what I call Asimov's axiom, well stated in his book The Relativity of Wrong (Doubleday, 1988): "When people thought the earth was flat, they were wrong. When people thought the earth was spherical, they were wrong. But if you think that thinking the earth is spherical is just as wrong as thinking the earth is flat, then your view is wronger than both of them put together."
...
The view that all wrong theories are equal implies that no theory is better than any other.
...
As evolutionary biologist Richard Dawkins observed on this dispute: "When two opposite points of view are expressed with equal intensity, the truth does not necessarily lie exactly halfway between them. It is possible for one side to be simply wrong."

Scientific American article

 

[Regnad Kcin]

Yes russell it is clear disinfo but as I probed earlier, what is the motive? Are they [that is, those who aren't conspiracy proponents] professional disinfo agents or just hobbyists?

Yawn.

 

[Regnad Kcin]

Yes russell it is clear disinfo but as I probed earlier, what is the motive? Are they professional disinfo agents or just hobbyists?

I don't know.

The skill, frequency and persistence of the strategies is interesting though.

If our beliefs are correct I would have to imagine that such things would exist.

I have to keep an open mind and refrain from accusing anybody though.

They do seem to use very structured organised tactics here. They claim they just don't like to see 911 lied about but that doesn't explain their determination. Its very intriguing.

There also appears to be group synchronicity like flanking maneuvers too.

Packing is another phenomenon I see.

You two couldn't be more entertainining.

 

[Regnad Kcin]

You guys are almost the best manipulators I have seen.

Really? Who's the best? I hate being the Avis Rent-a-car of manipulators.

 

[Regnad Kcin]

Gravy: Russell, I consider you to be a neo-Nazi.

Dirtywick: In no way is he insinuating you're a Nazi.

Yes, yes, he's making the point that anyone can make wild claims if they don't have to back them up. He's still insinuating he's a nazi.

That wasn't the complete exchange, Mr. Out of Context. And if the entire back 'n forth went over your head, I recommend a course in remedial English, no offense.

 

[Regnad Kcin]

OH?? Maybe he'll also copy and paste a 146 Groovy Gravy Grave Paper on the whole thing.

I'm just choosing from random one of your many posts as I wish to say something:

Please grow up. Everyone will be happier, including you.

 

[twinstead]

Wow. A clever twist on the old "they don't agree with me, so they must be paid government professional debunkers" routine. Nice.

Russell and Jessica what the hell do you expect to happen when you come on a board like this, spouting things right out of the CT handbook?

It just is unfathomable to you both that intelligent people who have access to all the information you do could actually NOT believe in your little conspiracy theory, isn't it?

 

[beachnut]

Originally Posted by jessicarabbit
We don't want to convert you hun, we only wan't a certain calibre of people on our side.

Interesting. What "calibre" would that be? And what, may I ask, is your "side?"

like docker a pin head, .000067 caliber

it is all in the numbers

 

[Regnad Kcin]

Ah, very good. The other quote was the only one that was posted here before. So, does Craig Bartmer know the sound of explosives when he hears it, compared to the sound a skyscraper makes when it collapses?

I look forward to reading about your correspondence with him.

Well he is NYPD so I'm sure he'd no an explosion better than say..... a tour guide...

So, what do you do for a living?

 

[Regnad Kcin]

"The core" was made of thousands of pieces. Those pieces buckled, sheared, and came apart. Large portions of the core remained standing briefly, then fall over and down. What, exactly are you having trouble understanding?

Again that is your opinion and is not backed by any studies.

I know our friend jessicasockpuppet is banned, but I feel I must respond to the above:

Oh my.