Who Disrespects NYPD & NYFD

[jessicarabbit]

Also the kinetic energy of the plane crash the designers envisioned was actually greater than the kinetic energy of the planes that hit the towers.

 

[jessicarabbit]

Just as a matter of interest some (smoky) footage of WTC7 south

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3uUQt8bu6k

Smoke proves nothing. All the windows on the south side were blown out so even a single fir could produce that smoke pattern.

 

[delphi_ote]

I would expect every piece of steel to be kept and scrutinised

Can we keep it all over at your place, then?

 

[qarnos]

Could I remind people at this point that NIST haven't studied anything after the collapse started. So the idea that the collapse could be total from gravity alone is pure conjecture. Russells theory holds far more water.

They modelled the collapse until the point at which the underlying tower structure was simply not capable of arresting the collapse due to the kinetic energy of the upper sections falling upon it.

Russell has modelled nothing.

 

[Moving On]

More firemen in on it Russell?

Nope. They don't know what was responsible for the sounds of explosions around them.

Don't forget this element of the Operation Northwoods plan, "The pilots returning to Homestead would have a true story as far as they knew."

Also, please do not pull the accusing the fireman of crimes card any more. This thread has established that if you disagree with a NYPD officer who was there you will minimize his testimony at will.

Firefighters who have not spoken out may be acting under self-preservation for themselves, their careers and their families. I understand this and do not blame them one bit.

 

[delphi_ote]

Also the kinetic energy of the plane crash the designers envisioned was actually greater than the kinetic energy of the planes that hit the towers.

You got the maths to back that up, or are you just blindly asserting it because it makes you feel good?

 

[jessicarabbit]

Can we keep it all over at your place, then?

When I buy some aircraft hangers yes. Was that reply really constructive to the debate?

 

[uk_dave]

Russell,

I don't know if you've managed to see the Naudet documentary yet, but I have found a truncated segment which includes the collapse of the second tower to be hit, filmed from within the first.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-RlKF1B9Hk

 

[delphi_ote]

When I buy some aircraft hangers yes. Was that reply really constructive to the debate?

Yes, because it is completely ridiculous to expect every piece of a skyscraper to be kept and examined.

ETA And do you have anything constructive regarding the physics calculations you asserted exist somewhere?

 

[jessicarabbit]

You got the maths to back that up, or are you just blindly asserting it because it makes you feel good?

KE=0.5 x mass x velocity squared

The plane they imagined was going 600 mph (as admitted by NIST) the plane that hit the northe tower was going 480mph. Note the squared in the above equation. The KE ends up much higher.

 

[beachnut]

Could I remind people at this point that NIST haven't studied anything after the collapse started. So the idea that the collapse could be total from gravity alone is pure conjecture. Russells theory holds far more water.

If you are saying NIST tells you how it started, and you are tying to say what?

After the building failed, it fell due to what force?

Anyone?

Ferris how did it fall after it failed?

Due to what force?

Jessica, you can not be this poor in research, or in not offering what you believe up front as you state this.

This reminds me of Docker. He would post as you and not say his view!

Are you Docker?

So how did the WTC fall? Since you accept the NIST failure mode, what was the force that made the WTC fall?

 

[R.Mackey]

Could I remind people at this point that NIST haven't studied anything after the collapse started. So the idea that the collapse could be total from gravity alone is pure conjecture. Russells theory holds far more water.

Stuff and nonsense.

We know gravity was a factor. We have no evidence for anything else. Nobody has yet produced a valid calculation that gravity could not have led to the effects seen. Russell's theory, unlike NIST's, is indeed pure conjecture. NIST's is not, until you come up with evidence or a challenge to the official theory.

 

[delphi_ote]

KE=0.5 x mass x velocity squared

The plane they imagined was going 600 mph (as admitted by NIST) the plane that hit the northe tower was going 480mph. Note the squared in the above equation. The KE ends up much higher.

You've assumed that m1 = m2 and haven't given a reference for either velocity figure.

 

[jessicarabbit]

You've assumed that m1 = m2 and haven't given a reference for either velocity figure.

m1 and m2 are sufficiently close to neglect their effect on the squared term.

 

[beachnut]

Smoke proves nothing. All the windows on the south side were blown out so even a single fir could produce that smoke pattern.

More smoke, more fire. Kind of simple, but if I have two fires, I have twice as much smoke.

Three, three times.

Four fires, four times as much smoke.

I can always make more smoke with more fire, which makes your statment misleading at best. The black smoke of 9/11 was not, it was not so black, I concider it more like clouds, white when thin, black when thick because of the lack of light due to the thickness of smoke or clouds.

Not so sure you have anything on simple observation.

 

[Mancman]

KE=0.5 x mass x velocity squared

The plane they imagined was going 600 mph (as admitted by NIST) the plane that hit the northe tower was going 480mph. Note the squared in the above equation. The KE ends up much higher.

Leslie Robertson says the envisioned plane was coming in to land, lost in the fog, after dumping fuel.

A plane in such a situation would not be travelling at 600mph.

 

[jessicarabbit]

m1 and m2 are sufficiently close to neglect their effect on the squared term.

600mph is in the NIST report.

 

[Moving On]

<snip>

[1] I really doubt there was access to the core columns. They don't need maintenance, there's no reason to have access.


[2] How much explosives?


[3] The report is wrong. In fact, one of the bomb-sniffing dogs was killed in the collapse.


[4] That's some quick work! And nobody noticed this?


[5] I don't think this has been corroborated by anyone. The only person to my knowledge who made this claim is Scott Forbes, I don't even know if he actually exists. You'd think someone else would have remembered power going out for several days, considering that the entire building was occupied 24/7 by tenants who like to have electricity.

1) Can you prove to me there was not?

2) I don't know. Enough to break the core and facilitate collapse.

3) "Sirius, along with his partner, Police Officer David Lim, were assigned to the World Trade Center in New York, where their primary duty was to check vehicles entering the Complex, clear unattended bags and sweep areas for VIP safety. Sirius, who began work at the World Trade Center on July 4, 2000, was the only police dog to perish during the attack on the Twin Towers." http://www.novareinna.com/bridge/sirius.html

(Not the core. maybe it was the general dog patrols that were removed as the security employee indicated. Since there were no other dogs killed in the collapse this is possible.)

4) If Forbes's account is true he said it was only above the 48th floor from what I have read.

I am trying to remember the elevation of the last squib.

 

[uk_dave]

1) Can you prove to me there was not?

2) I don't know. Enough to break the core and facilitate collapse.

3) "Sirius, along with his partner, Police Officer David Lim, were assigned to the World Trade Center in New York, where their primary duty was to check vehicles entering the Complex, clear unattended bags and sweep areas for VIP safety. Sirius, who began work at the World Trade Center on July 4, 2000, was the only police dog to perish during the attack on the Twin Towers." http://www.novareinna.com/bridge/sirius.html

(Not the core. maybe it was the general dog patrols that were removed as the security employee indicated. Since there were no other dogs killed in the collapse this is possible.)

4) If Forbes's account is true he said it was only above the 48th floor from what I have read.

I am trying to remember the elevation of the last squib.

Why a power down in only one tower, recalled by one employee via email and instant messaging?

 

[Moving On]

<snip> This argument is absolutely ridiculous, unless you can provide us evidence that there were explosives. You have not.

No I can't since NIST did not test for them even though it was possible for terrorists to use a secondary device and it was well known they had used explosives prior in 1993.

Bad investigating.