• Security incident: ISF was recently accessed by intruders. Please change your password, and change it anywhere else you used it. Read more

Which political party wants you dead?

Based on your photograph, you're already half dead.

Nixon never dies. It's his Executive Privilege.

I bet Dick had some awesome health insurance, the kind we little people could only dream of, and yet he we are, a world poorer for his passing. At least he left us the EPA.
 
Unfortunately there is a pretty good chance that if you die, the Democrats would benefit from your death too. Your value as an example to achieve a greater good and all that. :p

The question seems more like 'what is an appropriate safety net'. To some extent we all swing high above potential disaster. Is what keeps us from harm skill, luck, or innate ability? Despite all our efforts any of us could suddenly find ourselves in need of a net. I don't really find much merit in the argument that if we fall without a net it is our own choice and the resulting mess should not result in someone caring enough to do something. If nothing else, the bloody suffering morass and cries of pain far below the wire might evoke a sense of compassion from more civilized people.

Should we each carry and build our own little nets, or can we agree that if we live on the high wire we should all contribute to the net? The intent of the Affordable Healthcare Act (aka Obamacare) is a compromise that says we should all carry our own little nets, and that we are required to. Yes, that seems a bit flawed. I would have liked to see the 'public option', which would allow people to choose a commonly supported net, in addition to a privately financed net.
 
Insurance is about pooling risk for affordable premiums and affordable payouts.

Travis's problem is that his risk is so high that no affordable premium exists, and no affordable payout is possible. He doesn't need health insurance, he needs health care. Which is, of course, expensive. Living in a depressed region and not having an Engineering degree probably don't help matters.

Any insurance company that accepted high-risk members without charging commensurately high (unaffordable) premiums would promptly go bankrupt. Obviously Travis is not entitled to compel the bankruptcy of any insurance company.

One possible way to mitigate this would be to compel a large number of extremely low-risk individuals to pool their risk with Travis, so as to keep the premiums affordable and guarantee the high-cost healthcare that Travis will almost certainly require.

Of course, this is not really "insurance" anymore: It's really just "health care for Travis, faked up to look like insurance, and relying for success on government compulsion and artificially-capped premiums".

I can't speak for the GOP: For all I know, they really do want Travis dead. That's probably the most rational explanation, right?

But all I want is to know if Travis is any more entitled to compel low-risk people to pool their risk with his and pay for his health care, than he is to bankrupt insurance companies?

Check the bolded part. Now if this was done for everyone what would be the big problem?
 


Oh dear gods. No wonder American healthcare is screwed. People do not understand the system they have, and are easily deceived by how they're being talked to about it.

The bill doesn't take money out of the current Medicare budget but, rather, it attempts to slow the program's future growth, curtailing just over $500 billion in anticipated spending increases over the next 10 years. Medicare spending will still increase, however. The nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office projects Medicare spending will reach $929 billion in 2020, up from $499 billion in actual spending in 2009.

None of which would cause providers to want to not accept Medicare patients now. Whether spending is cut more in the future or is not cut at all (this article you quote seems to think both are going to happen at once) doesn't affect the cuts going on now. If Medicare reimbursement were fine now, providers would accept these patients and then drop them later when and if more cuts occurred.

So while the health care law reduces the amount of future spending growth in Medicare, the law doesn't cut current funding for Medicare.

It doesn't have to cut current funding. What providers care about is reimbursement, and that's already cut, every year. This procedure won't be covered. This one will but for less money. Every year, less money for the same stuff. These cuts happen in other budgets passed by Congress, so saying this particular law "doesn't cut current funding" is a rather deceptive way to put it.

Still, where does the $500 billion in future savings come from?

Nearly $220 billion comes from reducing annual increases in payments that health care providers would otherwise receive from Medicare.

The reductions happen every year, they're automatic unless they're actively waived for another year. $220 billion is just adding up the regular cuts over the years.

Other savings include $36 billion from increases in premiums for higher-income beneficiaries

which affects patients, not their providers. The richer patients will pay more. This is not a reason providers wouldn't want this. In fact, they'll benefit.

and $12 billion from administrative changes.

this is probably the savings projected from standardizing electronic medical records, as well as some other systems badly in need of reform (pharmacy software springs to mind, you wouldn't believe the antiquated crap in use throughout much of the industry)

A new national board -- the Independent Payment Advisory Board -- will be tasked to identify $15.5 billion in savings, but the board is prohibited from proposing anything that would ration care or reduce or modify benefits.

This sentence reads as if the only possible savings would be from rationing care or reducing/modifying benefits (a common bogeyman suggested by opponents of healthcare reform) even though it obviously isn't, as the sentence prior spoke of administrative costs. There is a great deal of room for necessary improvements in administration--the revenue cycle of medium and large hospital chains is ridiculously overcomplicated.

Then there's another $136 billion in projected savings that would come from changes to the Medicare Advantage program, an alternative to traditional Medicare that has turned out to be much more costly than expected. About 25 percent of Medicare beneficiaries are enrolled in a Medicare Advantage plan.

This is just outright deception. Medicare Advantage is not Medicare. It's not government-funded healthcare. It's private insurance companies offering products that are supposed to be parallel and similar to Medicare....except they're run for profit and cost a great deal more. Managed Medicare is a tremendous waste. Even the insurance companies barely scrape a profit out of these products, and wind up spending all the profits on negotiating contracts with the increasingly fewer providers willing to accept these.

If you're having trouble finding providers willing to accept Managed Medicare patients, that is completely and totally understandable and has nothing to do with actual Medicare or "Obamacare" at all. Providers negotiate their own contracts with insurance companies selling Managed Medicare products, and those that cannot get a contract favorable to themselves will not be seeing those patients. The word "Medicare" in "Managed Medicare" does not mean it's actually real Medicare. It's not.

If you disregard the incendiary word "stole," it is true that savings from Medicare help pay for other parts of the health care law. That's because Democrats wanted to make sure they did not increase the federal deficit with the new health law. The savings from Medicare offset new spending resulting from the health care bill.

Medicare is in need of reform. It would be entirely reasonable to attempt to break even by having the savings from reforms not be directed elsewhere in the budget but instead applied right back to the program. I fail to see why that would be controversial at all, it seems like the author of this article wishes for reform to cost more than it saves, and for more money to be poured into Medicare after reform than before.
 
y'know who else is going to die? EVERYBODY! People with health insurance, people without, folks who pay for their own treatment, people who've never seen a doctor, people with the best care in the world, they are all going to die!


Absolutely correct - now explain why an otherwise productive member of society should die early because they cannot obtain insurance due to a congenital condition.
 
I'll admit that in many ways choosing political party affiliation is not easy. There are such banal bloviating blunderous blowhards on both sides that it can be hard to slog through the political spin machine mud.

Then I realize only one party actually wants me dead. That makes things so much easier. Oh sure the other party isn't exactly bleeding from the knuckles trying to save my life but at least it isn't actually making a policy that will ensure my death part of its core position planks.

No, only the Republican Party wants to ensure I will never get health insurance. So it seems I'm stuck with a Democratic Party that is merely indifferent to my potential death rather than actively trying to make it happen. What a great time to be among millions of Americans that can't get health insurance. :(

YAY two party politics.


If the US were more like beloved Canada and Europe, we'd have an even worse business climate, and our rates of developing new medical tech, some half of everything the world invents, would fall off to match the per-capita of Europe. While this would still be better than North Korea or Somalia, it would be worse than it is now.

Then the rates of life saving due to new tech would slow, and people would die, as the years marched on, who wouldn't otherwise die.


In such a world, you'd be more likely to die with full health insurance from government than a technologically more advanced world with US-style health insurance.


"Giving out free insurance" at the cost of development rates kills far more than it saves. Of course, other business-unfriendly policies unrelated to medical care also affect this greatly, to be sure.
 
If the US were more like beloved Canada and Europe, we'd have an even worse business climate, and our rates of developing new medical tech, some half of everything the world invents, would fall off to match the per-capita of Europe. While this would still be better than North Korea or Somalia, it would be worse than it is now.

Then the rates of life saving due to new tech would slow, and people would die, as the years marched on, who wouldn't otherwise die.


In such a world, you'd be more likely to die with full health insurance from government than a technologically more advanced world with US-style health insurance.


"Giving out free insurance" at the cost of development rates kills far more than it saves. Of course, other business-unfriendly policies unrelated to medical care also affect this greatly, to be sure.

"Let people die now, so that people won't die in the future due to vague medical technology that hasn't been invented yet."

In other words, [citation needed]
 
y'know who else is going to die? EVERYBODY! People with health insurance, people without, folks who pay for their own treatment, people who've never seen a doctor, people with the best care in the world, they are all going to die!

That's why laws against murder are pointless and should be abolished.
 
Why can't you buy your own health insurance? And why aren't you dead yet without it?

Because I am a small business owner that doesn't make enough to afford any meaningful level of insurance. The republicans in my state have frozen enrollment into state healthcare but it wouldn't matter anyway. I make just a little too much to be eligible as an individual and in order to have my business be eligible I need to hire two more full time employees. So my options, if enrollment was not frozen, which it is, is to pay myself even less money or hire two employees I don't need and can't afford.

Thats why I can't get health insurance.
 
Because I am a small business owner that doesn't make enough to afford any meaningful level of insurance. The republicans in my state have frozen enrollment into state healthcare but it wouldn't matter anyway. I make just a little too much to be eligible as an individual and in order to have my business be eligible I need to hire two more full time employees. So my options, if enrollment was not frozen, which it is, is to pay myself even less money or hire two employees I don't need and can't afford.

Thats why I can't get health insurance.

According to Beerina, that's ok though. Because if you get Health insurance now, people in the future will DIE!
 
If the US were more like beloved Canada and Europe, we'd have an even worse business climate, and our rates of developing new medical tech, some half of everything the world invents, would fall off to match the per-capita of Europe. While this would still be better than North Korea or Somalia, it would be worse than it is now.

Then the rates of life saving due to new tech would slow, and people would die, as the years marched on, who wouldn't otherwise die.


In such a world, you'd be more likely to die with full health insurance from government than a technologically more advanced world with US-style health insurance.


"Giving out free insurance" at the cost of development rates kills far more than it saves. Of course, other business-unfriendly policies unrelated to medical care also affect this greatly, to be sure.

Which insurance companies are developing medical technology? Because the last time I checked, insurers didn't do research and development. They don't even practice medicine. They sell insurance coverage.
 
Which insurance companies are developing medical technology? Because the last time I checked, insurers didn't do research and development. They don't even practice medicine. They sell insurance coverage.

I *think* the argument is that is the US turns to evil socialized medicine, the US will set prices on what it will pay for services, which means that the companies that make new medicines and procedures will simply stop, because there will be no money in it.
 
If the US were more like beloved Canada and Europe, we'd have an even worse business climate, and our rates of developing new medical tech, some half of everything the world invents, would fall off to match the per-capita of Europe. While this would still be better than North Korea or Somalia, it would be worse than it is now.

<snip>.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but while the US has a larger economy at present, Canada has a more stable economy. The levels of regulation that we have up here work for us.
 
Travis - I know I've said it before, but have you looked into the local county and state medical assistance programs available?

I know that locally (where I reside) they've covered up to and including a liver transplant, and I know a guy right now going through cancer treatment through the county and they seem to be doing a good job of it.


Travis - Any luck on PCIP? The Federal high risk insurance pool? Here are the eligibility requirements:

You are eligible for PCIP if the following requirements are met:

Be a California resident.

Have no health insurance coverage for the past 6 months. This means in the last 6 months you were not enrolled in an individual or job-based health plan, including COBRA or Cal-COBRA, or enrolled in Medicare Part A and/or Part B, or in Medicaid/Medi-Cal.

Be a U.S. Citizen, U.S. National, or lawfully present individual in the United States.
U.S. Citizens or U.S. Nationals must provide their Social Security Number.

A denial letter from a health insurance company or health plan dated within the last 12 months, or

An offer of individual (not group) health coverage with higher premiums than the Major Risk Medical Insurance Program (MRMIP) preferred provider organization (PPO) rate in the area where you live. The offer letter must be dated within the last 12 months, or

Letter (PDF 22kb) from a licensed doctor, physician assistant, or nurse practitioner dated within the past twelve (12) months, stating that the individual has or, at any time in the past, had a medical condition, disability, or illness.


Premiums are $164 a month if you're in your twenties.
 
I *think* the argument is that is the US turns to evil socialized medicine, the US will set prices on what it will pay for services, which means that the companies that make new medicines and procedures will simply stop, because there will be no money in it.

Evil socialized medicine would remove the middleman that is insurance, eliminating an entire incredibly rich industry that makes all its profit from not spending the money they are paid on provision of healthcare. How keeping them around is helping the parties they are highly motivated to not pay is beyond me.
 
I'll admit that in many ways choosing political party affiliation is not easy. There are such banal bloviating blunderous blowhards on both sides that it can be hard to slog through the political spin machine mud.

Then I realize only one party actually wants me dead. That makes things so much easier. Oh sure the other party isn't exactly bleeding from the knuckles trying to save my life but at least it isn't actually making a policy that will ensure my death part of its core position planks.

No, only the Republican Party wants to ensure I will never get health insurance. So it seems I'm stuck with a Democratic Party that is merely indifferent to my potential death rather than actively trying to make it happen. What a great time to be among millions of Americans that can't get health insurance. :(

YAY two party politics.

I think the California state democrats are also indiferent. Why hasn't CA enacted some uninsured type program that you qualify for.

This is from Wikipedia so I apologize if it is wrong.
The California State Legislature currently has a Democratic majority, with the Senate consisting of 25 Democrats and 15 Republicans and the Assembly consisting of 52 Democrats and 28 Republicans. Except for the period from 1995 to 1996, the Assembly has been in Democratic hands since the 1970 election (even while the governor's office has gone back and forth between Republicans and Democrats). The Senate has been in Democratic hands continuously since 1970.
 
According to Beerina, that's ok though. Because if you get Health insurance now, people in the future will DIE!

I forgot to add that I couldn't afford the co-pays even if I bought insurance because I only pay myself enough to cover the essentials, and a few beers, as everything else stays in the business. However that little that I do pay myself is too much to qualify for state access... even if enrollment wasn't frozen. If it wasn't so maddening it would be comical.

I don't think conservatives realize that small businesses are the back bones of the economy and there would be a lot more if people could get access to healthcare.
 
Evil socialized medicine would remove the middleman that is insurance, eliminating an entire incredibly rich industry that makes all its profit from not spending the money they are paid on provision of healthcare. How keeping them around is helping the parties they are highly motivated to not pay is beyond me.

BROOKY_nail%20on%20head.jpg
 

ISF - Join now!

Every member here is approved by hand. No bots, no spam, just people who care about evidence and honest debate.

Membership is free!

Create your free account

Back
Top Bottom