Which God-boy are you voting for?

[varwoche]

Let's be fair, guys. Neither one of the candidates has discussed or made an issue of their faith so far, during this campaign. All the "horrible god talk" was in response to a direct question from the moderator. They answered his question, and then they moved on. Why is this such a problem?

It isn't. It is a jumping off point, however, to acknowledge certain likelyhoods, i.e. composition of the supreme court and the effect on separation of church and state, creationism in public schools, prayer in public schools, Roe v Wade, rights of gay people, etc.

 

[Nyarlathotep]

I don't mind if the candidates are religious. Atheists are a tiny minority in this country and most people have wouldn't vote for one, and I might not like it, but I accept it. So a candidate being personally religious and making the occasional religious remark is something I will grudgingly accept.

However, what I absolutely WILL NOT accept is if the candidate is so religious that he feels compelled to inflict his religion on me. And Bush, despite making one offhand comment (that, unlike Brown, I DO think was intended as a thinly disguised insult) to the contrary has shown by his actions that he is quite happy to force his religion on others (witness his support of the anti Gay marriage amendment. I have never heard a decent non-religious reason to oppose Gay Marriage), or at the very least to openly and shamelessly pander to religious groups that want to impose their religion on everyone else.

I don't know if Kerry will be as bad, but it would be hard for him to be worse. Frankly, he doesn't strike me as the type, though. So though Kerry might be somewhat religious, I have to give it to Kerry on the religiousity issue.

 

[varwoche]

Seeing as some of the most powerful elected republicans in the country unabashedly advocate a foriegn policy based on biblical end-of-days prophecy, it would be reassuring (a little) to hear Bush state unequivocally that he is not doing so.

Nor can non-religious people be particuarly heartened by an attorney general who talks in tongues, and purportedly belongs to a snake-handling congregation. (I suspect Kevin Bacon in snake allegation, not sure though.)

 

[Batman Jr.]

Going on his stances on policy, I have a feeling that Kerry, even though he'll assert vehemently to the contrary to secure the religious vote, might be a closet atheist/agnostic. I mean, he's gotten the Catholic Church in a tizzy telling people to go Republican and he doesn't much seem to give a damn.

It also must be said that there have been at least two non-believers in office already: Lincoln and Taft.

 

[Nyarlathotep]

Going on his stances on policy, I have a feeling that Kerry, even though he'll assert vehemently to the contrary to secure the religious vote, might be a closet atheist/agnostic. I mean, he's gotten the Catholic Church in a tizzy telling people to go Republican and he doesn't much seem to give a damn.

It also must be said that there have been at least two non-believers in office already: Lincoln and Taft.

If you count Lincoln as a non-beleiver, you have to count Washington too. Both were Deists, IIRC.

 

[Kodiak]

You see this a lot, not just from candidates. A celebrity will give an opinion, it gets published, and people go nuts.

In all fairness, that's exactly what happened with the whole Cat Stevens/Salmon Rushdie thing...

 

[Brown]

BTW...Minnesota has elected what appears to be an agnostic/atheist.

"Organized religion is a sham for weak-minded people who need strength in numbers."
-Jesse Ventura

Close, but Jesse's quote was actually a little more strongly worded than that:

"Organized religion is a sham and a crutch for weak-minded people who need strength in numbers."

 

[AtheistArchon]

Going on his stances on policy, I have a feeling that Kerry, even though he'll assert vehemently to the contrary to secure the religious vote, might be a closet atheist/agnostic. I mean, he's gotten the Catholic Church in a tizzy telling people to go Republican and he doesn't much seem to give a damn.

- I'm glad I'm not the only person who has a suspicion about this. Perhaps it's wishful thinking? Either way, I have no problem at all with Kerry for being Catholic; as you point out, he's obviously no slave to the dogma. And any politician worth a cent isn't going to run from an atheist platform! The U.S. is nowhere near prepared for that.

 

[TragicMonkey]

- I'm glad I'm not the only person who has a suspicion about this. Perhaps it's wishful thinking? Either way, I have no problem at all with Kerry for being Catholic; as you point out, he's obviously no slave to the dogma. And any politician worth a cent isn't going to run from an atheist platform! The U.S. is nowhere near prepared for that.

I think a gay Hindu conjoined twin running as a communist has a slightly better chance than an atheist.

 

[AtheistArchon]

I think a gay Hindu conjoined twin running as a communist has a slightly better chance than an atheist.

- Mmmmm no, I think I could take the gay Hindu conjoined twin commie. I mean... he's gay.

 

[TragicMonkey]

- Mmmmm no, I think I could take the gay Hindu conjoined twin commie. I mean... he's gay.

Take him? I wonder what you plan to do with a gay Hindu conjoined twin commie? Whatever it is, I bet you couldn't air it on TV without a million dollar FCC fine.

 

[thaiboxerken]

"I believe that I can't legislate or transfer to another American citizen my article of faith. What is an article of faith for me is not something that I can legislate on somebody who doesn't share that article of faith."-- Kerry

This is a big reason I'm voting for Kerry instead of Bush, who does want to legislate articles of faith.

 

[AtheistArchon]

Take him? I wonder what you plan to do with a gay Hindu conjoined twin commie? Whatever it is, I bet you couldn't air it on TV without a million dollar FCC fine.

- Ladies and gentlemen, you again see how my opponent twists the meanings of my words. As president, I have a plan to incorporate gay Hindu conjoined twins into democratic society. Too long they've embraced communism! Gay Hindu conjoined twins are now flooding our of the former Soviet Union and across our own borders at the rate of 4,000 per day...

 

[TragicMonkey]

- Ladies and gentlemen, you again see how my opponent twists the meanings of my words. As president, I have a plan to incorporate gay Hindu conjoined twins into democratic society. Too long they've embraced communism! Gay Hindu conjoined twins are now flooding our of the former Soviet Union and across our own borders at the rate of 4,000 per day...

Is that 4000 pairs, or 8000 individuals? You may allege spin all you want, but your numbers are highly questionable!

 

[CBL4]

Two things about Ventura. He said "organized" religion not religion and not god. This does not prove he has an atheist.

Also, he made the remark after being elected and was too unpopular to be re-elected.

CBL

 

[Brown]

Two things about Ventura. He said "organized" religion not religion and not god. This does not prove he has an atheist.

Also, he made the remark after being elected and was too unpopular to be re-elected.

Not only that, Jesse specifically denied being an atheist. He was noticeably uncomfortable taking about his faith and considered it a personal matter, but he did not renounce all religious belief from his own life.

Jesse made his remarks about religion in connection with laws, particularly laws pertaining to prostitution, that he felt represented legislation of morality.

As to whether he was too unpopular to be re-elected, it's hard to say. Some of the polls suggested that, had Ventura chosen to seek another term, he would have been slightly favored in a three-way race over Moe and Pawlenty (the latter eventually winning the office). Whether that slight edge would have held up on election day is an academic point, of course.

 

[Art Vandelay]

Re: Re: Re: Which God-boy are you voting for?

Has Kerry ever said anything that leads you to believe he would use the Oval Office to compromise the idea of separation of church and state?

Yes, he has declared himself in favor of forcing children to be indoctrinated in the idea that devotion to God is part of patriotism.

Nyarlathotep

I don't mind if the candidates are religious. Atheists are a tiny minority in this country and most people have wouldn't vote for one, and I might not like it, but I accept it.

I concur, but I would add that I do have a problem with many things associated with religiosity, such as presenting one's religion as a qualification for office.

It's one thing to seek out the reporter and say, "Hey, print this, will you?" But people need to chill out when someone is just giving an honest answer to a question. Obviously, I'm not saying people DON'T seek out the attention, but we need keep it all in perspective.

Sure, sometimes it's important to consider the conditions prompting the statement, but just because someone is asked their opinion, that doesn't mean that they can't be criticized for their opinion. If someone says that all blacks should be killed, that’s not acceptable, regardless of whether that declaration was spontaneous or not.

In all fairness, that's exactly what happened with the whole Cat Stevens/Salmon Rushdie thing...

That claim sounds fishy to me...

 

[CSSMariner]

Not that he has a snowball's chance in a blast furnace of being elected president, but does anyone here know anything about Nader's opinion on the predominant American belief system? Is he a practicing idiot, or does he just give lip service to dog?

I never seem to get that word right.