Where is the Common Ground?

jimbob said:
Can you elaborate, because I literally have no idea what that means in context (or indeed out of context).
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But why, some say, the Moon? Why choose this as our goal? And they may well ask, why climb the highest mountain? Why, 35 years ago, fly the Atlantic? Why does Rice play Texas?

We choose to go to the Moon! We choose to go to the Moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard; because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one we intend to win, and the others, too.

- John F. Kennedy, Rice Stadium, Houston, Texas, September 12, 1962​
 
lomiller said:
I’d say the biggest reason why compromise is currently impossible is that Republicans have adopted a political strategy of splitting the difference between the Republican position and the Common Ground. Instead of negotiating Democratic ask vs Republican asks they insist on taking the common ground points and saying “we’ll agree to these if you agree to Republicans positions you oppose”
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This pretty much sums it up. The policy of The GOP according to Mitch McConnell was to oppose Obama and the Democrats even if there WAS common ground. And now that they hold all of reins of power the Democrats must sacrifice any and all their principles and seek common ground which never is in fact common ground.
 
acbytesla said:
This pretty much sums it up. The policy of The GOP according to Mitch McConnell was to oppose Obama and the Democrats even if there WAS common ground. And now that they hold all of reins of power the Democrats must sacrifice any and all their principles and seek common ground which never is in fact common ground.
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The Overton window must not move with relation to facts.
 
acbytesla said:
This pretty much sums it up. The policy of The GOP according to Mitch McConnell was to oppose Obama and the Democrats even if there WAS common ground. And now that they hold all of reins of power the Democrats must sacrifice any and all their principles and seek common ground which never is in fact common ground.
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And this was perhaps Obama's biggest failure. He made the mistake of starting the negotiation by adopting the middle ground, a compromise position. Then the GOP would balk and insist that he make concessions to their position, and accused him of failing to compromise when he wouldn't move far enough.
 
Tommy Jeppesen said:
That I don't do like them and treat them as human even if they don't. If I start treating them like non-humans they have won, because I have become like them.

Regards
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Yep people who are intolerant of bigots and don't put up with their rampant bigotry are the truest bigots.

Refusing a cake to a transwoman, fine, refusing a meal to someone putting concentration camps together? Totally beyond the pale.
 
kellyb said:
What happened to him as a result?
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He was publicly shamed and fired.

kellyb said:
This guy at google?
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...esto-women-s-neuroticism-sues-company-n835836
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Yes that guy. Who's memo was a bit more complicated than, "Women don't do well in tech do to neurotocism."

https://gizmodo.com/exclusive-heres-the-full-10-page-anti-diversity-screed-1797564320/amp

His anti diversity screed is full of such things as:

Note, I’m not saying that all men differ from women in the following ways or that these differences are “just.” I’m simply stating that the distribution of preferences and abilities of men and women differ in part due to biological causes and that these differences may explain why we don’t see equal representation of women in tech and leadership. Many of these differences are small and there’s significant overlap between men and women, so you can’t say anything about an individual given these population level distributions.
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He may well be wrong but the guy was fired for being wrong in a memo that google solicited. I'm probably wrong about that bit. What I have read of the memo was pretty badly mischaracterized at the in the media.
 
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ponderingturtle said:
Yep people who are intolerant of bigots and don't put up with their rampant bigotry are the truest bigots.

Refusing a cake to a transwoman, fine, refusing a meal to someone putting concentration camps together? Totally beyond the pale.
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I accept all humans as humans. It doesn't mean that I agree with them and I will say that. But I don't consider them wrong, evil or anything else.

So I accept you as a human and I disagree with you about how to treat humans with other viewpoints than one's own.
Now the common ground is that we are all humans and treat all humans as such also those, who don't.
 
pgwenthold said:
And this was perhaps Obama's biggest failure. He made the mistake of starting the negotiation by adopting the middle ground, a compromise position. Then the GOP would balk and insist that he make concessions to their position, and accused him of failing to compromise when he wouldn't move far enough.
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I agree. In fact, Obama really pissed me off as President. Particularly the first two years when he had Democratic majorities.
 
pgwenthold said:
And this was perhaps Obama's biggest failure. He made the mistake of starting the negotiation by adopting the middle ground, a compromise position. Then the GOP would balk and insist that he make concessions to their position, and accused him of failing to compromise when he wouldn't move far enough.
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You'd think that someone with Obama's experience as a US Senator would have given him a much better grasp of the horse-trading nature of federal politics. Also, I seem to recall assurances that Obama would offset his apparent lack of experience by surrounding himself with veteran politicos whose wisdom would underwrite the success of his administration.
 
jimbob said:
This.

One can seek common ground with someone who shares some values.


It is difficult if one side has abhorrent values. Or refuses to believe in what are easily verifiable facts.
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Yeah it's easy to say reach out to those who voted trump, but it's like asking NASA to reach out to Apollo Hoax believers. At the end of the day Trump was willing to make impossible promises and pander to peoples worst prejudices.
 
lomiller said:
I’d say the biggest reason why compromise is currently impossible is that Republicans have adopted a political strategy of splitting the difference between the Republican position and the Common Ground. Instead of negotiating Democratic ask vs Republican asks they insist on taking the common ground points and saying “we’ll agree to these if you agree to Republicans positions you oppose”
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Yup. I'm unimpressed with the further argument about how not giving in to that tactic is wrong because it causes harm in the name of 'punishing' the other side. But at this point it isn't about punishing the other side; it is about protecting our institutions. Not incentivizing that tactic is vitally important.
 
tyr_13 said:
Yup. I'm unimpressed with the further argument about how not giving in to that tactic is wrong because it causes harm in the name of 'punishing' the other side. But at this point it isn't about punishing the other side; it is about protecting our institutions. Not incentivizing that tactic is vitally important.
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Every other time I can think of from history, the people arguing that they must "protect our institutions" turned out to be the villains.
From your posting history, I land pretty much on your "side", but that phrasing makes me a little nervous.
 
Distracted1 said:
Every other time I can think of from history, the people arguing that they must "protect our institutions" turned out to be the villains.
From your posting history, I land pretty much on your "side", but that phrasing makes me a little nervous.
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I KNOW You are definitely right on a few occasions. A better phrasing would be to protect the integrity of our institutions.
 
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