Where Did The Particles That Started The Big Bang Come From?

[Bob Klase]

Just curious, but are you an Existentialist?

I probably wouldn't use the term to describe myself, but I guess it's probably more accurate than the alternatives.

 

[MattusMaximus]

Or String Theory.

Well said, Fnord.

I'm willing to give the string theorists a chance to propose some solid experiments, but my patience is getting awfully thin with them...

 

[MattusMaximus]

I don't mean to play the devil's advocate here, but if time is a dimension of our universe and life, then shouldn't the creator therefore be outside of time and not have a beginning, or creator? Eternal, I mean?

You assume there was a "creator", and by doing so you ask a question that is more appropriate to the Religion & Philosophy threads. Let's keep it to science here, please.

 

[tomwaits]

I agree that this is pushing into the realm of philosophy, but i don't think he's "assuming" anything. I do think it's impossible for the human brain to comprehend the beginning of time, so it's understandable that someone (including me!) would have a hard time thinking about this.

 

[Paranormal Inquirer]

You assume there was a "creator", and by doing so you ask a question that is more appropriate to the Religion & Philosophy threads. Let's keep it to science here, please.

No, I was replying to his premise that if there was a creator, then that would beg the question of where did he come from. He made the hypothetical assumption, and I was only responding. But you are correct, this strictly be scientific. Btw, I'm an atheist so don't think you offended me or anything like that.

 

[ponderingturtle]

What's a backwards infinite?

It means that you can always continue further backward in time

 

[INRM]

It means that you can always continue further backward in time

Does backwards infinite preclude forwards infinite?

 

[Soapy Sam]

They came from China.
Like everything else.

 

[Paranormal Inquirer]

I believe it is Africa.

 

[INRM]

1) the big bang was a true singularity, and time began there. There was no "before".

True Singularity? I thought any black-hole is a true singularity?

3) classical spacetime ceases to exist near the singularity. Quantum gravity effects put space and time into a quantum state with large fluctuations. Questions about "before" become meaningless.

What exactly are quantum gravity effects?

4) the universe originated in a Hartle-Hawking instanton (i.e. time went from being a spatial coordinate to a time coordinate, and the universe appeared in a de Sitter phase).

I'm not exactly sure how that would work... how could time be a spatial coordinate in stead of a time-coordinate? How would a universe work if it had no time? And why would it have degenerated from no time to time? Especially if timelessness is an indication of no entropy...

5) our patch of the universe is expanding because it is inside a bubble of true vacuum in a larger space. In that case the big bang was non-singular, but you could still ask where the larger space came from.

That's an interesting one... one could claim the larger background was always there... but that could open new questions...


INRM

 

[Complexity]

Some of you might find this interesting:

A World Without Time: The Forgotten Legacy of Godel and Einstein

 

[Dragoonster]

Does backwards infinite preclude forwards infinite?

It precludes nothing as far as I know.

Our human brains have limited comprehension of some ideas. Both infinity (endless time) and singularity (no time, yet somehow changing form at some "time") are hard for me to grasp. But if a theory incorporates one, I don't see why it couldn't incorporate the other.

For all we know it could be a stop-start singularity-infinity that simple boggles our comprehension in both directions.

To expand probably uselessly, philosophy deals in or relies on comprehension of ideas, and some scientific ideas seem beyond comprehension, thus philosophy alone may not be an adequate framework for conclusions. There are many science ideas such as Shroedinger's Cat, the Uncertainty Principle, and the Big Bang that I can't comprehend and have a natural inclination to reject or hypercriticize due to that.

 

[Reality Check]

True Singularity? I thought any black-hole is a true singularity?

I think that sol is using "singularity" in the mathematical sense.

What exactly are quantum gravity effects?

The effects that a quantum gravity theory predicts. Once we progress beyond just candidates for a quantum gravity theory we will be able to calculate these effects.

I'm not exactly sure how that would work... how could time be a spatial coordinate in stead of a time-coordinate? How would a universe work if it had no time? And why would it have degenerated from no time to time? Especially if timelessness is an indication of no entropy...

Hartle-Hawking instanton. This site also covers the same topic. And this Quantum Cosmology site is good.

Timelessness is an indication of constant entropy.
[/quote]

 

[Bob Klase]

our patch of the universe is expanding because it is inside a bubble of true vacuum in a larger space.

But we don't really know that? There may not be a "larger space".

 

[sol invictus]

True Singularity? I thought any black-hole is a true singularity?

Yes, and?

What exactly are quantum gravity effects?

If I knew that I'd have a Nobel.

I'm not exactly sure how that would work... how could time be a spatial coordinate in stead of a time-coordinate? How would a universe work if it had no time? And why would it have degenerated from no time to time? Especially if timelessness is an indication of no entropy...

It's not an elementary concept.

That's an interesting one... one could claim the larger background was always there... but that could open new questions...

Yep.

But we don't really know that? There may not be a "larger space".

We might find evidence of the larger space if that option is correct.

 

[INRM]

Does anybody know anything about Quantum-Gravity Effects?

BTW: The Hartle-Hawking Instanton... how plausible is this theory? The theory did specify that the whole physical laws of the universe could be reduced to a single mathematical formula...


INRM

 

[soylent]

I don't mean to play the devil's advocate here, but if time is a dimension of our universe and life, then shouldn't the creator therefore be outside of time and not have a beginning, or creator? Eternal, I mean?

If time is a property of this Universe it's not necessarily the case that asking what came before even makes sense as a question.

Declaring something eternal does not even begin to answer the underlying question of why there exists something instead of nothing at all. It would appear to just move the mystery one step further out.

 

[Cuddles]

Does anybody know anything about Quantum-Gravity Effects?

Quantum gravity is probably the biggest problem facing theoretical physics and cosmology at the moment. I'm afraid you're not going to find anyone here, or anywhere else, who can explain it, because no such explanation currently exists.

 

[INRM]

Cuddles,

Nobody even knows what quantum gravity is?


BTW (To anybody) regarding the Hartle-Hawking ... how plausible is this theory? (The theory did specify that the whole physical laws of the universe could be reduced to a single mathematical formula... Has anybody found that formula yet, or gotten close?)

 

[sol invictus]

Nobody even knows what quantum gravity is?

QG is just what it says - a quantum theory of gravity. You either start with classical gravity (general relativity) and quantize it, or you find a quantum theory and demonstrate that it reduces to GR in the classical limit. We have one of the second type, called string theory, but we don't understand it well enough to say what it predicts for the physics at the big bang.

BTW (To anybody) regarding the Hartle-Hawking ... how plausible is this theory? (The theory did specify that the whole physical laws of the universe could be reduced to a single mathematical formula... Has anybody found that formula yet, or gotten close?)

It doesn't specify that, so I don't understand your question.