Where are the moderate Republicans?

Oh... well... *stammering* just because he authorized torture of people that aren't Amurricans... and how then could we really call them people... just because he had them rendificated in secrety places and horrible things were righteously done to them in countries other than the US of A...

...I got nothin'
 
RandFan said:
No. I WAS a Bush fan. There is proof of that here in this forum. Search for my posts. I defended Bush. Nut jobs on the left aside, the politicians, pundits and commentators, by and large, attacked Bush on substantive issues. Bush did fail on Katrina. Bush did start a war based on lies. Bush did trample the constitution to torture and kill (yes, Obama has continued some policies but he has been attacked by the same people). The same can't be said of the Right as it relates to Obama. They have invented many false narratives about Obama. What did the left invent about Bush?



There is some truth to what you are saying. I'm not a Democrat and never will be. There is good reason to be skeptical of many on the left. But I reject the false equivalency.
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When you were a Bush fan did you then believe
Bush did fail on Katrina. Bush did start a war based on lies. Bush did trample the constitution to torture and kill
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or have you become enlightened now?
 
RandFan said:
The same can't be said of the Right as it relates to Obama. They have invented many false narratives about Obama. What did the left invent about Bush?
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I think this comes down to how you define "the left" and "the right". I was a very outspoken critic of Bush. But my harshest criticism was against the 9/11 Conspiracy Theorists.

One could argue that that is something "the left" invented (for a very narrow segment of "the left"):

I remember carrying a sign in a demonstration when Bush was in town. My sign simply said, "Bush lied!" It was in reference to his selling the invasion and occupation of Iraq based on phony and trumped up statements about WMDs that came from the Bush administration. At one point, a passer-by asked me if I was a Conspiracy Theorist. (He assumed I was alleging that Bush was involved in the 9/11 terrorist attacks.)

ETA: And FWIW, I found myself arguing largely against "the left" in pointing out the legal problems surrounding Obama's military intervention in Libya (especially Obama's notion that anything that doesn't involve "boots on the ground" isn't subject to the War Powers Act or even his own interpretation of it that he voiced during the Bush administration).
 
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eeyore1954 said:
When you were a Bush fan did you then believe or have you become enlightened now?
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You should search the forum. I think you would find it very enlightening.

Katrina:

  • I was defending Bush for his handling of Katrina when I found this article.
  • I had argued that Bush did not lie when he said no one could have known the potential devastation of such a natural disaster.
  • *The article clearly made Bush out to be a liar.
  • At that time I was outraged and felt betrayed and said so.
National Geographic 2004 said:
When did this calamity happen? It hasn't—yet. But the doomsday scenario is not far-fetched. The Federal Emergency Management Agency lists a hurricane strike on New Orleans as one of the most dire threats to the nation...
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WMD: I defended Bush's case for war.
Torture: I started threads defending enhanced interrogation techniques.

It was the debate, the facts, cognitive dissonance and honest reflection on my arguments in favor and the arguments of my detractors in opposition that ended up moving me in another direction.

I'm proud of the fact that I have a commitment to the truth and a willingness to look objectively at my world view. I came to JREF a dualist, Deist, opponent of gay rights conservative (to name some of the positions I've changed over the years). It has taken me many years to change my mind on these things and I did not change my mind lightly.
 
I lived through Katrina. it isn't the job of the Federal Govt to be the countries babysitter during a natural disaster. I don't recall them being required to wipe everybody's butts when I went through Fredrick, Elena or George....

New Orleans didn't even get hit by the hurricane (I bet mot of you don't even know that) they had poor levees due to their own state govts extreme corruption. Millions upon millions were spent to supposedly improve the levees, yet the only things that appeared tp improve were Edwin Edwards (and others) offshore bank accounts.

The Mississippi Gulf Coast bore the brunt of the storm, had significant damage at higher levels than New Orleans and actually had to combine 2 cities into one do the level of devastation.... The reason the media wasn't here throwing a fit? We didn't wait around for the gubbmint to come save our asses, we got up and did it ourselves.

I seriously think the incompetence of Mayor Nagin and whatshername, the La Gov. was whitewashed over. it's their bloody city and state, and they dropped the ball more than anyone.
 
LogicFail said:
I lived through Katrina. it isn't the job of the Federal Govt to be the countries babysitter during a natural disaster. I don't recall them being required to wipe everybody's butts when I went through Fredrick, Elena or George....
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Straw man. The argument is that it was FEMA's job to protect life and reduce suffering. That is why we fund them. They failed to do their job.

New Orleans didn't even get hit by the hurricane...
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The disaster was the result of the hurricane and mirrored the devastation predicted by FEMA. Your point is fatuous.

wiki said:
The primary purpose of FEMA is to coordinate the response to a disaster that has occurred in the United States and that overwhelms the resources of local and state authorities.
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Do you deny that:

  • New Orleans experienced a severe disaster that was the result of hurricane Katrina?
  • FEMA had listed a hurricane strike on New Orleans as one of the most dire threats to the nation.
  • The results were catastrophic.
  • It was FEMA's job to mitigate the catastrophe.
  • FEMA failed to do its job.
 
I deny it all, because I don't believe that their job was compromised due to their own failings but rather due to the horrible condition of Louisiana's infrastructure, it's lack of effort in removing it's citizens from the city as well as the poor leadership in New Orleans making stupid remarks like (paraphrasing) " mandatory evacuation, but for those who don't just go to the superdome" and then being completely unprepared for the result...

Was FEMA blameless? probably not, but call me crazy, I think people are responsible for themselves. You can yell straw man at me all you want, but I LIVE HERE. This isn't some mathematical thought experiment. I saw the stupid press conferences Nagin made. I saw the half empty commuter buses leaving the city I saw the people lined up at the superdome hours ahead of time..... I guess you live in California and have a much better handle on what takes place down here in the south eh? Pardon me if I find your statements , well, worthless.

Why is it that personal responsibility and self reliance are politically dividing issues? I see it as a duty really......
 
I shouldn't have even commented on this as you can see, I'm rather emotionally compromised by the entire ordeal. So I'm gonna bow out...sorry
 
BenBurch said:
IIRC, There was a naval assault ship with generators and a hospital and fresh water in the Gulf, and Bush would not allow the Captain to put in to NO to offer relief.
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I hope you are not referring to the USS Bataan, as this was debunked over six years ago IIRC.
 
I found a moderate Republican!

“I did veto a bill on gay marriage, not on gay rights,” Christie said at a meeting with Fort Lee, NJ students, streamed live on NBC’s Morning Joe. “Gay rights are protected and protected aggressively in New Jersey.”
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Linky.

Makes perfect sense.

Unfortunately he gets to use Obama's position as a sort of comrade in dissonance.
 
BenBurch said:
OK, where was the debunking? I only recall the news coverage of it at the time.
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Where is your news coverage that says that President Bush would not allow the Captain of the USS Bataan to put in to NO to offer relief? You realize they were assisting the relief effort the day following landfall?
 
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