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When is JC returning?

SezMe,

This point might have been confusing.

Paul makes a point recorded in acts…
  • For the king knoweth of these things, before whom also I speak freely: for I am persuaded that none of these things are hidden from him; for this thing was not done in a corner.

The point Paul made was recorded by Luke in the book of acts. Although Paul (as far as I'm aware of) never wrote a gospel he did write most of the new testament and also was a jew. It's strange if he had written after the destruction of the temple he wouldn't have mentioned it.

I think there's good reason to think that the apostles wrote (or dictated to scribes) their understanding of the events surrounding the ministry of Jesus. In acts it's recorded that the church grew daily. There were believers from the very beginning and persist to this day. The church has existed in some form from the very moment of Pentecost. I don't see any reason to doubt the written record attributed to the Apostles as being any thing except exactly that.

Gene
 
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Basically there are three ways you can go as a christian, either you believe the rapture will occur before the 7 year tribulation, or you believe the rapture will occur right after the 7 year tribulation, or you don't know.

You forgot the mid-tribulation rapture. There are those Christians who believe that they will have to go through 3 and a half years of the tribulation before the rapture.

Marc
 
As posted by someone before,

4. chirstains that don't believe in the so-called rapture.

Paul

:) :) :)
 
BUMP
All apologies, everyone, but just having read Steve S.'s post, I can't help but make mention of his avatar. It's Christmas-time. I'm thinking of fonder times, and there's my best pal from 1969. I miss you, Billy. I know my own step-daughter's new Bratz doll sushi bar can never be as cool as your space-crawler.
Now, back to the battle.
 
As I mentioned in this thread, the debate has been cancelled. Sigh. But, adopting a cloud/silver lining attitude, I can now come back here and make a fool of myself respond as best I can. It's too late tonight but I'll post tomorrow.

AgingYoung, my apologizes for the delay. Hopefully we can pick up on a fun discussion.
 
In Genesis when God told Noah to build an ark Noah had no clue what day it would rain. But in Genesis 7:4 God told Noah "After seven more days I will cause it to rain on the earth" I thought perhaps that God revealing to Jonah when the flood would be 7 days before it happened may be symbolic of God revealing to the church seven years before rapture, meaning at tribulation. But that's just a mumbo-jumbo idea that I had (that I believe could be true though). I really have no stance on whether it will be post-tribulation or pre-tribulation. I just know Jesus said He is coming quickly.

In Genesis it also says that god created the universe in 6 days. What made you arbitrarily pick 7 from the story of Noah instead of the 6?

"6 is a number perfect in itself, and not because God created all things in six days; rather the inverse is true; God created all things in six days because this number is perfect. And it would remain perfect even if the work of the six days did not exist." (St. Augustine- The City of God)
 
This is why I question the faith of the Fundies. They're so worried about being ready when Jesus returns, they've forgotten the whole point of the book in the first place, that people are to work the common good of all.

Losers, all, in the long run.
 
SezMe,
Here's hoping you and yours have a good new year. When you're ready.

Roadtoad,
May fundies and skeptoads alike work the common good of all, hand in hand, in the coming new year.

Gene
 
First let me clear up something. I wrote:
No. I'm saying Paul didn't write the gospel named "Paul".
I have absolutely no idea what I was thinking when I wrote that. Was I a tad to much into the cooking sherry? In any case, I retract that as being a wrong assertion.

That said, I think this is where we left off.
We won't have to step too far back. I suspect that point is right here. The record claims to be either eyewitness or the recorded testimony of eyewitness. Now if I accept your contention the authors were most certainly not contemporaneous to Jesus that would certainly impeach their testimony of being 'eyewitness'. It would open the door for discounting most any of the new testament.

Why are you biased toward thinking the authors
  • weren't eyewitness
  • weren't who we traditionally understand them to be
Again, I am not a biblical scholar so I cannot give you an authoritative response. So let me take Mark and give just one line of reasoning in response to your bullet points.

First, note that none of the four gospels in the bible names their authors. Thus, we have to look to extra-biblical sources.

Eusebius (Book III) reports on fragments of the writings of Papias, a second-century Bishop. Papias acknowledged that he was a collector of oral lore regarding the early church. Eusebius quotes Papias as follows:
This, too, the presbyter used to say, "Mark, who had been Peter's interpreter, wrote down carefully, but not in order, all that he remembered of the Lord's sayings and doings. For he had not heard the Lord or been one of his followers, but later, as I said, one of Peter's"
So, in the second century, it was acknowledged that the author of Mark was not an eyewitness but knew somebody who was.

But note the fourth-hand nature of this information: a "presbyter" believed that Mark wrote down Peter's memories as reported by a second century author as reported by a fourth century author. Also note that the "Mark" cited above cannot be the disciple Mark.

So that is just one tiny example of the line of reasoning that leads me to the conclusion that the names of the gospels do not reflect their authorship nor are they the works of eyewitnesses to Jesus' life and death.

Again, much of this is based on the book I cited earlier. There is much more direct and indirect evidence but, as I stated, I am not qualified to lay it all out.
 

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