When is JC returning?

[Paulhoff]

Originally Posted by kurious_kathy
No I believe many will stay lost.

Yes KK and we are all hoping that you will not stay lost.

Paul

 

[AgingYoung]

SezMe,

Probably the most noted prophecy that Jesus made before his crucifixion as described in the gospels is that of his resurrection. I think if his prophecy of the destruction of the temple had been fulfilled when the authors wrote them they would have noted that fulfillment as well.

There was disagreement over some points among the apostles. Paul writes about one such confrontation with Peter where he explains...

• I withstood him to the face.

There's no reason to think there was perfect harmony with the apostles on all points. John explains his understanding of when Jesus would return toward the end of his gospel...

• Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what [is that] to thee?

Gene

 

[bluess]

In the immortal words of John Whorfin/Dr. Emilio Lizardo:

With thanks to The Adventures of Buckaroo Banzai Across the Eight Dimension.

I knew there was a reason you were my favorite corgi. Buckeroo RULES!

When is JC returning?

The day after Christmas, like the rest of us. You don't really think he's going to keep that awful sweater, do you?

Damn, I've got to find these threads earlier so I can get my smartass comments in before Sling.

SOON VERY SOON.
I was raised a Jehovah's witness, and thank me that I have for the last nine years been and atheist, ... SNIP

I hope that your family and friends will stay in touch with you, Adler. It must be very hard to remove yourself from everything you've known and lose your immediate circle at the same time.

 

[supercorgi]

I knew there was a reason you were my favorite corgi. Buckeroo RULES!

Why thank you, thank you. Buckaroo is my hero (I even named a ferret after him). Now just remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

Damn, I've got to find these threads earlier so I can get my smartass comments in before Sling.

It's very hard to keep up with Sling.

 

[AgingYoung]

I know how dangerous this can be, but I've been thinking....

Is there any explicit text that states that God's original, and exclusive, agreement with the Jews to be His chosen people has been rescinded?

With practice it should become less dangerous. The short answer is no. The agreement wasn't as much for the descendants of Abraham to be God's chosen people, as much as what would happen to them if they didn't keep their side of the agreement. If they keep their part of the bargain they would be blessed.

Gene

 

[kurious_kathy]

BTW Kathy, I do appreciate the answer. So you're sticking with B, and backing off from A. Fair enough.

I probably won't be posting much for a few days, so I'll wish you (and others here of a similar persuasion) a Merry Christmas now.

And may His noodly appendage touch the rest of you!

Thanks Tanstaffi, I love Christmas. I just got to find a way to slow down and enjoy it even more. The best of times are spent with family and friends. Hope all here enjoy that warm fuzzy feeling the Holidays can bring!

 

[grayman]

KK, we'll never agree on religious beliefs, but since this is an important time of the year for you, this atheist wishes you a merry christmas.

 

[steve s]

It's not my will but His that matters.

Whenever I hear anyone say this I always find it amusing that god's will always coincides with that person's will. Strange how it works out that way.

Steve S.

 

[BJQ87]

"But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only. But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be." Matthew 24:36-37

Though I am not much of a scholar on eschatology at all, let me give you a little somethin somethin anyways from the christian's perspective of the "end times".

Basically there are three ways you can go as a christian, either you believe the rapture will occur before the 7 year tribulation, or you believe the rapture will occur right after the 7 year tribulation, or you don't know. Now generally in the Christian church, as you can see in the "left behind" series as well, pre-tribulation rapture is thought to be true, and many christians go on believing so without even knowing that is not the only option, because many christians are, sorry to say, ignorant about a multitude of concepts in the bible that are quite elementry. Lets just say if the apostle Paul were here today he'd have a fit.

One main argument for pre-trib rapture is that if the rapture happened directly after the 7 year period of tribulation, then we would therefore know the day and hour of which the rapture would occur, and this contradicts the verse that says no one knows the day or the hour of which it will occur.

However, if you want to get technical, the fact is that Jesus didn't say that no one will EVER know the day or the hour. And this thought brought me to Genesis where Noah was building the ark, since after all, the scripture says "As in the days of Noah so will it be in the coming of the Son of Man."

In Genesis when God told Noah to build an ark Noah had no clue what day it would rain. But in Genesis 7:4 God told Noah "After seven more days I will cause it to rain on the earth" I thought perhaps that God revealing to Jonah when the flood would be 7 days before it happened may be symbolic of God revealing to the church seven years before rapture, meaning at tribulation. But that's just a mumbo-jumbo idea that I had (that I believe could be true though). I really have no stance on whether it will be post-tribulation or pre-tribulation. I just know Jesus said He is coming quickly.

-John

 

[SezMe]

AY, sorry for the delayed response...some CT silliness got in the way.

I don't think a first century Jew could dispassionately speak of Jesus going up to Jerusalem if they were writing after the temple had been destroyed. That event had to have scarred them to the core. I think to say it was quite a loss would be understatement.

But what if the author was not a Jew? See below.

Paul makes a point recorded in acts…

I think we might have to step back to get to our point of departure from each other. It is my contention that Matthew, Mark, Luke and John did not write, respectively, Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. And most certainly the authors were not comtemporaries of Jesus. And we don't reliably know of their ethnicity or even gender.

Are we singing off the same page? If not, then we should pursue these issues because our other points in this discussion depend on these premises. So I'll delay responding more until I see your response to this post.

 

[SezMe]

In Genesis when God told Noah to build an ark Noah had no clue what day it would rain. But in Genesis 7:4 God told Noah "After seven more days I will cause it to rain on the earth" I thought perhaps that God revealing to Jonah when the flood would be 7 days before it happened may be symbolic of God revealing to the church seven years before rapture, meaning at tribulation. But that's just a mumbo-jumbo idea that I had (that I believe could be true though). I really have no stance on whether it will be post-tribulation or pre-tribulation. I just know Jesus said He is coming quickly.

BJQ87, this portion of your post suggests that you are a biblical literalist. Is that a fair inference?

 

[BJQ87]

BJQ87, this portion of your post suggests that you are a biblical literalist. Is that a fair inference?

idk I just try to use wisdom by God's grace when interpreting the bible, so I think it depends...I really don't think it has to or should be so cut and dry. For instance when Jesus said "Behold I give you the authority to trample on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy, and nothing shall by any means hurt you." Luke 10:19 I do not believe that Jesus was talking about serpents and scorpions in the literal sense, but I believe that, since serpents and scorpions were sort of bad omens or dark symbols throughout the middle east during this time, I believe Jesus was rather referring to evil spirits. However, there are many times which I go with the literal translation, and many times which I go with the symbolic translation.

 

[SezMe]

Fair enogh. But how do you decide? For example, was the Noahan flood real or symbolic? On what basis do you reach your conclusion?

 

[BJQ87]

Fair enogh. But how do you decide? For example, was the Noahan flood real or symbolic? On what basis do you reach your conclusion?

When it comes to biblical stories, unless they flat out say it's a fiction story, such as a parable, then I believe it to be an actual event. I do believe Adam and Eve in the garden to be an actual event, however I do think it is a very mysterious actual event.

-John

 

[SezMe]

When it comes to biblical stories, unless they flat out say it's a fiction story, such as a parable, then I believe it to be an actual event. I do believe Adam and Eve in the garden to be an actual event, however I do think it is a very mysterious actual event.

In that event, I don't plan to pursue religious issues with you. That reads awfully harsh but I sincerely don't mean it that way. Our world view's are so far apart that I just don't think we could carry on a useful, interesting conversation.

Now, AgingYoung and I might be on a bit of a slippery slope but that is for another post.

 

[BJQ87]

In that event, I don't plan to pursue religious issues with you. That reads awfully harsh but I sincerely don't mean it that way. Our world view's are so far apart that I just don't think we could carry on a useful, interesting conversation.

okie dokie

 

[ChristineR]

"But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only. But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be." Matthew 24:36-37

Though I am not much of a scholar on eschatology at all, let me give you a little somethin somethin anyways from the christian's perspective of the "end times".

Basically there are three ways you can go as a christian, either you believe the rapture will occur before the 7 year tribulation, or you believe the rapture will occur right after the 7 year tribulation, or you don't know. Now generally in the Christian church, as you can see in the "left behind" series as well, pre-tribulation rapture is thought to be true, and many christians go on believing so without even knowing that is not the only option, because many christians are, sorry to say, ignorant about a multitude of concepts in the bible that are quite elementry. Lets just say if the apostle Paul were here today he'd have a fit.

One main argument for pre-trib rapture is that if the rapture happened directly after the 7 year period of tribulation, then we would therefore know the day and hour of which the rapture would occur, and this contradicts the verse that says no one knows the day or the hour of which it will occur.

However, if you want to get technical, the fact is that Jesus didn't say that no one will EVER know the day or the hour. And this thought brought me to Genesis where Noah was building the ark, since after all, the scripture says "As in the days of Noah so will it be in the coming of the Son of Man."

In Genesis when God told Noah to build an ark Noah had no clue what day it would rain. But in Genesis 7:4 God told Noah "After seven more days I will cause it to rain on the earth" I thought perhaps that God revealing to Jonah when the flood would be 7 days before it happened may be symbolic of God revealing to the church seven years before rapture, meaning at tribulation. But that's just a mumbo-jumbo idea that I had (that I believe could be true though). I really have no stance on whether it will be post-tribulation or pre-tribulation. I just know Jesus said He is coming quickly.

-John

Actually, many Christians do not believe in a rapture. The whole concept of rapture didn't develop until the nineteenth century. Other Christians believe in multiple raptures.

The real problem is that these books were written by different people with different ideas of what Jesus was going to do. People get these odd sorts of ideas when they try and fit contradictory texts together.

I'd go into more specifics, but I am under the influence of painkillers right now, so I'm pretty addled.

 

[SezMe]

I'd go into more specifics, but I am under the influence of painkillers right now, so I'm pretty addled.

Actually, that condition might actually be helpful.

OK, OK, a snarky remark. One that BJQ87 does not deserve. But I am under the influence of ... oh, nevermind.

 

[AgingYoung]

SezMe,

I think we might have to step back to get to our point of departure from each other. It is my contention that Matthew, Mark, Luke and John did not write, respectively, Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. And most certainly the authors were not comtemporaries of Jesus. And we don't reliably know of their ethnicity or even gender.

We won't have to step too far back. I suspect that point is right here. The record claims to be either eyewitness or the recorded testimony of eyewitness. Now if I accept your contention the authors were most certainly not contemporaneous to Jesus that would certainly impeach their testimony of being 'eyewitness'. It would open the door for discounting most any of the new testament.

Why are you biased toward thinking the authors

• weren't eyewitness
• weren't who we traditionally understand them to be

Gene

 

[RecoveringYuppy]

Read the opening sentences of Luke for one. He says the story was handed down from others.

BTW Eyewitnesses to what? Do you think all four of the Gospel writers were present at the birth of Jesus for example?