When does an embryo / fetus become human, and why?

I don't know what you mean by 'weak'. Also: I'm confident that whether a person becomes a criminal or not is a binary outcome. Either does or doesn't.

I see what you're saying now: not that it's a binary outcome, but that there are multiple possible outcomes so why focus on just one consequence?

OK: consider that even in a binary outcome, there is a decision to select one of the two outcomes vs the other - why do we not treat a fetus as a spontaneous abortion since that's a potential outcome, too? The potentiality argument is a redundant scaffold that distracts from the fact that it does not support any particular value judgement.

It's quite circular - at least without more hidden premises that could be fleshed out (such as why to choose one possible outcome over alternatives - in which case the potentiality argument may be revealed to be redundant).
 
I see what you're saying now: not that it's a binary outcome, but that there are multiple possible outcomes so why focus on just one consequence
The fetus/human being question has been made into a binary question with very particular consequences depending on the outcome. If the fetus is considered a human being, it gains a certain amount of protection. If not, the fetus does not gain those protections. There are no other possible conditions in that respect. There other situations where a person or human being is also under this type of binary conditions.

OK: consider that even in a binary outcome, there is a decision to select one of the two outcomes vs the other - why do we not treat a fetus as a spontaneous abortion since that's a potential outcome, too? The potentiality argument is a redundant scaffold that distracts from the fact that it does not support any particular value judgement.
In our society where there is this type of binary situation exists the tendancy is to err or default on the positve rather than the negative. When a person is accused of a crime (which is a binary situation; ethier guilty or innocent) the legal stance is to default to the positive. The accused is assumed innocent untill proven guilty.

The default stance is to not treat a fetus as a spontaneous abortion because that would detrimental to the human race in general. The continuation of the human race depends on fetuses. It makes more sense, survival wise, to assume the fetus is not a potential spontaneous abortion. Besides prenatal care improves the odds for success.

The positive potentiality is also a reason why the fetus is not treated as a potential spontaneous abortion. Alive untill proven dead.



It's quite circular - at least without more hidden premises that could be fleshed out (such as why to choose one possible outcome over alternatives - in which case the potentiality argument may be revealed to be redundant).
There can be reasons to side with one potential rather than the other. Some are arbirtary. Some can have negative consequences we may wish to avoid.
 
Last edited:
In our society where there is this type of binary situation exists the tendancy is to err or default on the positve rather than the negative. When a person is accused of a crime (which is a binary situation; ethier guilty or innocent) the legal stance is to default to the positive. The accused is assumed innocent untill proven guilty.

OK: how does this work with the other potentiality examples you raised: is it appropriate to treat every fetus or kid as the best positive outcome, which in this case is a fully capable adult? ie: let them buy cigarettes and beer and vote?






The default stance is to not treat a fetus as a spontaneous abortion because that would detrimental to the human race in general.

I can't imagine why.






The continuation of the human race depends on fetuses. It makes more sense, survival wise, to assume the fetus is not a potential spontaneous abortion.

Not to me it doesn't. I find this to be a non-sequitur.

I would say that an outcome-based view would be blind to whether a fetus is a person or not. In fact: outcome-based views such as utilitarianism are pretty famous for their ambivalence toward human rights. Part of the reason for introduction of moral frameworks such as Rule Utilitarianism.





Besides prenatal care improves the odds for success.

Sure. This is true whether the fetus is defined as a person or not, right? As a practical matter, I doubt people who believe a fetus is a person have better prenatal care than those who believe a fetus is going to become a person, assuming they're planning to bring the pregnancy to term.

I would further submit that poor prenatal care bringing a fetus to term would have a net negative result on the overall health of the next generation. It follows that there is therefore a moral argument to terminate these pregnancies once identified. Additionally, it is very clear that malformed fetuses should be terminated within such a framework. All of this remains true whether the fetuses are persons or not.

This is the greatest problem with an outcome-based moral framework: it is quite blind to human rights and can lead to normitive proscriptions most people consider instinctively morally unsupportable. Advocates suggest this is because our instincts are not very good.








The positive potentiality is also a reason why the fetus is not treated as a potential spontaneous abortion. Alive untill proven dead.

Yeah, but that's layering one dubious argument onto another: that we must (or even can) treat something now as one of its potential future states (dubious) and that you should always choose the most positive outcome (further complication: positive for whom?) as the category (dubious).






There can be reasons to side with one potential rather than the other. Some are arbirtary. Some can have negative consequences we may wish to avoid.

The most consistent Humanist moral framework does assign a fetus non-human status, but this does not impact the issue of whether it's moral to terminate a fetus - human or not. I think you'll have to be more specific about these vague 'negative consequences we wish to avoid,' that you seem to think are different whether a fetus is held to be a human or not.
 
At what stage does the centromedian nucleus develop in the fetus? It's been strongly linked to consciousness.
 
Ok sure, 'life' is growing inside the female but it hasn't taken a breath and is not human then, however he or she has a soul. If aborted that soul hasn't had a chance to do wrong. He or She goes straight to heaven like a child, its the 'Satanist's' that are against abortion.


In my view no, a soul cant be in a body that doesn't have a beating heart to keep the body and brain alive.

What is a soul?
 
Why all the questions on a soul when its not the topic and regardless of it being religious. Its my opinion and your asking for evidence when you dam well know nothing will satisfy your needs till you die.

Stick to the topic instead of picking apart a post and diverting it again.

Since you mentioned 'soul' it is a little rich for you to tell others to stick to the topic.
Certainly you have an opinion thsat a soul exists, but that opinion is worthless without evidence.
Or do you subscribe to the idea that all opinions are born equal?
 
There are babies being aborted everyday that are just crying out to let them live, is anyone listening??

Kathy I am sorry you suffer from depression,and sorry that you feel a completely unjustified and needless guilt.
But there are no babies aborted, any more than there are toddlers or children or pre-teens or teenagers or adults aborted.
Foetuses are aborted.
 

Back
Top Bottom