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When Bad Laws Kill

Darth Rotor

Salted Sith Cynic
Darth Rotor
Joined
Aug 4, 2006
Messages
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http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2010067653_apafnigeriagunshotlaw.html

This one floors me. Associated Press story.
A Nigerian lawmaker says parliament is considering a bill that will make it a criminal offense for hospitals and medical workers to delay or deny treatment of gunshot wounds.
****
Nigerian hospitals now must wait to treat victims of gunshot wounds because of a police directive from the 1980s which says that a police report must be submitted before a victim can be treated, he said.
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One hopes that the law would overturn/nullify the police directive, or the hospital workers would be caught smack dab in the middle of stupid, as they appear to be now.

1. Why only considering a bill, I wonder?

2. What were the police leadership thinking when they put that rule into place? Anyone in Nigeria in the 80's who has some perspective on this?

3. This state of play must frustrate doctors to no end.

The story noted that a news editor recently died after being shot, and waiting for treatmet while somebody presumably was working on all that police paperwork. One wonders how many died before this news editor did, while similarly awaiting the paperwork to be complete.

DR
 
Several US states have a law similar to this with two minor changes. The hospital simply has to call the police and notify them and it isn't meant to delay treatment at all.
 
I see no reason why such laws won't exist in America. For example, I overheard on the radio than in California, people are now required by law to provide a thumbprint when buying ammunition that must be given to the police just for buying ammo.

It seems you can't deny firearms directly but you can deny them by overregulating them to death to make exceptionally hard for people to buy them.
 
Donal said:
Several US states have a law similar to this with two minor changes. The hospital simply has to call the police and notify them and it isn't meant to delay treatment at all.
Click to expand...

It's the "in serial" rather than "in parallel" or "in the other order" rule that has me baffled. That "minor" change is non trivial in the case of gunshot wounds, wouldn't you say?

DR
 
Eyeron said:
I see no reason why such laws won't exist in America. For example, I overheard on the radio than in California, people are now required by law to provide a thumbprint when buying ammunition that must be given to the police just for buying ammo.
Click to expand...

And, of course, there's no difference between ammunition purchases and emergency medical treatment. The laws are exactly parallel.

:rolleyes:
 
Eyeron said:
I see no reason why such laws won't exist in America. For example, I overheard on the radio than in California, people are now required by law to provide a thumbprint when buying ammunition that must be given to the police just for buying ammo.

It seems you can't deny firearms directly but you can deny them by overregulating them to death to make exceptionally hard for people to buy them.
Click to expand...

I may discover that I agree with you... but as a thought experiment can you describe the burden or risk a thumbprint would place an ammunition buyer under?
 
I would suspect it would be very similar to people being put on a sexual offender list. In that if you're put on some sort of list then you have to have done something wrong and may eventually be investigated for any possible connection to a crime. Except in this case you're put on a list before any kind of crime is committed. Not to mention the social stigma that comes with being put on such a list. It's almost as if it's trying to say you're guilty before any kind of crime is being committed as well as almost trying to say that if you buy a firearm then you're obviously going to commit a crime since firearms are only for killing people and absolutely nothing else.
 
Darth Rotor said:
1. Why only considering a bill, I wonder?

2. What were the police leadership thinking when they put that rule into place? Anyone in Nigeria in the 80's who has some perspective on this?

3. This state of play must frustrate doctors to no end.

The story noted that a news editor recently died after being shot, and waiting for treatmet while somebody presumably was working on all that police paperwork. One wonders how many died before this news editor did, while similarly awaiting the paperwork to be complete.

DR
Click to expand...

WAG: Perhaps there was a rash of gunshot wounds from gang or similar unlawful violence, that wanted to stay 'under the radar'. By requiring police reports before starting treatment, people wounded while breaking the law would be less likely to get treated, at least at a hospital. I'm not sure how effective it would be, though.
 
I can't believe that doctors would actually wait for this red tape before helping people. Then again, the punishment for disobeying could be draconian.
 
Eyeron said:
I would suspect it would be very similar to people being put on a sexual offender list. In that if you're put on some sort of list then you have to have done something wrong and may eventually be investigated for any possible connection to a crime. Except in this case you're put on a list before any kind of crime is committed. Not to mention the social stigma that comes with being put on such a list. It's almost as if it's trying to say you're guilty before any kind of crime is being committed as well as almost trying to say that if you buy a firearm then you're obviously going to commit a crime since firearms are only for killing people and absolutely nothing else.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure where the social stigma comes from if the fingerprint records are not public. A sexual offender list has a designated purpose of being a list of offenders--this would not. I can see the purpose being if someone who buys the ammo DOES commit a crime with them, then it will be fairly easy to identify them--plus someone who knows they've been fingerprinted is going to be thinking about that before committing a crime with the ammunition. The question remains if the information can be abused. Can you imagine a scenario that would risk that?
 
Eyeron said:
I would suspect it would be very similar to people being put on a sexual offender list. In that if you're put on some sort of list then you have to have done something wrong and may eventually be investigated for any possible connection to a crime. Except in this case you're put on a list before any kind of crime is committed. Not to mention the social stigma that comes with being put on such a list. It's almost as if it's trying to say you're guilty before any kind of crime is being committed as well as almost trying to say that if you buy a firearm then you're obviously going to commit a crime since firearms are only for killing people and absolutely nothing else.
Click to expand...


When you get a driver's license you are "put on a list". Even before you have committed any traffic violation. Imagine ...
"... the social stigma that comes with being put on such a list. It's almost as if it's trying to say you're guilty before any kind of crime is being committed..."
​
:confused:

ETA: I think the sexual offenders have to be found guilty of something first.
 
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For all you folks living in the land of magazine restrictions and other nonsense (California):
http://www.federalpremium.com/
http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/

I can personally attest to Cheaper Than Dirt. They also carry a huge array of uppers, replacement stocks and magazines for 10/22s, SKSs, AK47s, AR15s (.223 and .303), plus tons of others, and even hard to find ammo like .50BMG and 454 Casul. Fast no questions shipping. I love this site.

Anyway...

Wow... First of all, it would be unpleasant enough to be sent to whatever passes for a hospital in Nigeria with a gun shot wound. Surely, if a life saving medical intervention can be performed I have a hard time seeing the doctors and medical technicians stopping to fill in block 17a in blue or black ink. Most real life saving measures with gun shots wounds tend to be rather low tech, simple and fast.
 
foxholeatheist said:
For all you folks living in the land of magazine restrictions and other nonsense (California):
http://www.federalpremium.com/
http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/

I can personally attest to Cheaper Than Dirt. They also carry a huge array of uppers, replacement stocks and magazines for 10/22s, SKSs, AK47s, AR15s (.223 and .303), plus tons of others, and even hard to find ammo like .50BMG and 454 Casul. Fast no questions shipping. I love this site.
Click to expand...

Do they ship to places in violation of local laws?
 
Hmm... Sarcasm was not clear enough I guess. And off topic but...

The duty of adhering to the local laws rests solely on the buyer, not the merchant. Pornographic images are illegal in many areas but it is not the webmaster or filmmaker or the sultry ladyboy or anyone on the supply end that would be subject to penalty.

Oh, and the law was lifted:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8306695.stm

I guess common sense wins out there and again.
 
Darth Rotor said:
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2010067653_apafnigeriagunshotlaw.html

This one floors me. Associated Press story.

One hopes that the law would overturn/nullify the police directive, or the hospital workers would be caught smack dab in the middle of stupid, as they appear to be now.

1. Why only considering a bill, I wonder?

2. What were the police leadership thinking when they put that rule into place? Anyone in Nigeria in the 80's who has some perspective on this?

3. This state of play must frustrate doctors to no end.

The story noted that a news editor recently died after being shot, and waiting for treatmet while somebody presumably was working on all that police paperwork. One wonders how many died before this news editor did, while similarly awaiting the paperwork to be complete.

DR
Click to expand...
Why do you hate Nigeria???
 
ponderingturtle said:
Do they ship to places in violation of local laws?
Click to expand...
No - at least not the last time I checked - they have various items noted as not shippable to certain primitive locations such as California and Washington, DC where the natives cannot be trusted with firesticks.:D
 
fuelair said:
No - at least not the last time I checked - they have various items noted as not shippable to certain primitive locations such as California and Washington, DC where the natives cannot be trusted with firesticks.:D
Click to expand...

So the idea that online ordering to get around state laws would work is clearly wrong. Good to know.
 
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