What's up with the Japanese and their rape fetish?

[Eddie Dane]

Amazon discontinued the sale of some obscure Japanese computer game. The reason? the game is a rape simulator in which the player gets to sexually assault women.

There's lots of sexual violence in those Manga cartoons too.

So rape themed erotica seems to be a major characteristic of Japanese culture.

Can someone with some knowledge of that country provide a pop-psychology explanation for this?

Do the men live under their wives boot? Do they have exceptionally strict mothers? Is their culture so restrictive that they need an outlet for their frustrations? In a word: Wassup?

 

[ponderingturtle]

What is the deal with boddice ripper romance novels were the women are forceably swept off their feet and end up in love with their rapists?

People are strange things.

 

[tyr_13]

Do the men live under their wives boot? Do they have exceptionally strict mothers? Is their culture so restrictive that they need an outlet for their frustrations? In a word: Wassup?

Actually, partially yes. This has changed within the last generation, but the 'super-mother' whose job it was to prepare their sons to be the best of works and their daughters to be the best of mothers and wives was well established. This was after the more traditional subservient trend broke.

Now before people start throwing more history at me, I'm talking about the post WWII generations. The role and place of women has fluctuated a lot over it's history, and to paint it with one broad brush would be wrong.

I'm kind of busy right now, but I'll see if I can dig up the paper I wrote on this for my east Asian psychology class.

 

[tkingdoll]

I blogged about this on Skepchick: http://skepchick.org/blog/?p=5994

My position basically being I don't see why it's a problem to have rape in a game when we're quite happy to have murder and savage beatings. The resulting debate was extremely useful and interesting and could help answer your question.

 

[ChrisC]

Although I think ponderingturtle is really onto something with "People are strange things", I've always been curious about this as well. Rape is not an uncommon theme, but Japan seems to be a major producer of rape-related erotica.

Are there other places or cultures that are strongly associated with certain types of erotica?

 

[kedo1981]

A big part of it is the fact that Japanese woman don't put-out until they have ring on their finger.

 

[Checkmite]

I blogged about this on Skepchick: http://skepchick.org/blog/?p=5994

My position basically being I don't see why it's a problem to have rape in a game when we're quite happy to have murder and savage beatings.

The thing is, many people are by no means happy to have murder and savage beatings in games, and will tell you so in so many words. In that sense, it's not a matter of those people taking offense at a rape game being inconsistent at all.

As for the rest of the populace, well, violence has been a part of video games ever since Mario first squashed a turtle. It has increased in both scope and realism since then, yet it has done so in such small steps that nobody who plays video games has really noticed the progression. Meanwhile, someone who last saw video game violence at the Mario level suddenly takes a gander at GTAIV and has a WTF moment. Of course they're turned off. Of course they're repulsed. The progression is suddenly obvious to them, whereas we've been generally weaned onto the more realistic stuff and so it's no big deal for us, and we call them all crotchety moralistic fundy kid-haters, whether they actually are those things are not.

But rape is different. We've not been slowly weaned onto progressively more realistic sexual violence in video games; it is thus far unprecedented. We've moved from something like Custer's Revenge - which to be fair you could only say involves "rape" if you've been told ahead of time that's what's going on because how how horrible the graphics and "gameplay" are - to something apparently akin to GTA, realism-wise. It's now just there, all the sudden - and like Mr. Cantakerous, the sudden appearance and ultra-realism is obvious and repulsive to many more people.

 

[Cavemonster]

I think another part of this is that, at least in popular culture, violence and even murder can be seen as justified.

In so many video games, (not so much gta) the violence is against villains who will otherwise do the same to you, against hitler or zombies or the turtle who's working for the guy who kidnapped your girlfriend (that one's a bit of a stretch.

We have societal constructs where violence, and even killing is ok- war, self defense etc. Even if this doesn't apply in every video game case, violence by itself is not taboo. We don't have the same thing for rape. There is no situation in which we culturally see rape as justified.

 

[Mark6]

A big part of it is the fact that Japanese woman don't put-out until they have ring on their finger.

Compared to American or European women, anyway:

Japan - Mating and Marriage

The rate of premarital sex for women in 1987 was 30.2 percent; in 1992, 38.2 percent; and in 1997, 50.5 percent. The rate for men in 1987 was 53.0 percent; in 1992, 54.9 percent; and in 1997, 60.1 percent. Reports by the popular media suggest that young people get married when the woman gets pregnant, although there is no concrete research on this issue.

 

[babbits]

At least it's out in the open.

I find TV programs such as Criminal Minds quite insidious. They lovingly portray situations of kidnapping, bondage, torture, etc., almost always in cases in which the victim(s) are female, the perpetrator(s) male. The theme is presented in a judgmental way, as if assuming this behavior is 'bad' -- the good guys almost always get the bad guys. But often the bad guy either commits suicide or is killed by the cops. This is common in horror movies, too, I've been told, though I'm not a fan of the genre. I think that is like saying, "Oh, he got caught, but hey, at least he would have to spend years in prison. Live fast, die young!"

Trouble is, for those who are sadistically inclined, this 'acceptable' exposure to acts of sadism on mainstream TV would, it seems to me, only whet an appetite for more graphic stuff. It's easily obtainable.

The studies seem to show that one's threshold of arousal is raised by exposure to perversion. One wants an escalated level of stimulation. In time, only the 'real thing' will satisfy.

 

[fuelair]

Although I think ponderingturtle is really onto something with "People are strange things", I've always been curious about this as well. Rape is not an uncommon theme, but Japan seems to be a major producer of rape-related erotica.

Are there other places or cultures that are strongly associated with certain types of erotica?

Certainly - most cultures have specific forms that are more popular than others and it usually come from feelings about repressive/repressed forces.
For Japan, tight social strictures manifest in rape, bondage, scatological porn in some quantity. Similar in Germany. France/Italy/Spain all heavy on porn related to religion and in Italy and Spain, heavy bondage with that religion (priests, nuns, convents, beatings, fire torture, etc). Recent US would be wife-beater porn - why now? because wife-beating became frowned on and much more gone after as a crime. England : domestic and school spankings/caning - from a past/passed tradition now missed by certain of the English.

 

[ChrisC]

The studies seem to show that one's threshold of arousal is raised by exposure to perversion. One wants an escalated level of stimulation. In time, only the 'real thing' will satisfy.

References or links? If I don't ask, someone else will.

A few people eventually gravitate to "the real thing", whatever that may be, but I don't know that it's the norm. I doubt it. For a very relevant example, there's an awful lot of rape-fantasy pornography out there. I think that's as far as most of the people who like it will take it. Maybe some will get into role playing with a willing partner. Not many will actually commit a rape and it's hard to say if the porn had much to do with it when it happens. Probably not.

 

[ChrisC]

Thanks fuelair. That makes sense and it's pretty much what I expected. This is obviously an area where I should do more research. Much, much more.
Joking aside, I find it quite interesting.

 

[Drudgewire]

The Psychic Agent series is awesome and I won't apologize for thinking so.

I guess I appreciate the intensity of lowest common denominator Japanese entertainment. It's the pro wrestling fan in me, who loves both the stiff style of the major Japanese organizations and the "garbage" style where everything from land mines to piranhas are employed as props.

Chalk it up to the whole duality of man thingy, but stuff that would make polite society vomit coming from a society so steeped in culture and tradition simply entertains me to no end.

 

[jimtron]

Rape porn certainly isn't unique to Japan. And tkingdoll's point is an interesting--is there a double standard with rape vs. murder in video games? One thing I'm curious about: I wonder if rape porn encourages, discourages, or has no effect on actual sexual violence. Maybe encourages; on the other hand, it could have a discouraging effect if it's a way for would-be attackers to fantasize about rape instead of actually doing it. I don't know--I'm just speculating.

 

[ponderingturtle]

What about american women of the early 20th century? The film The Sheik where a romanticly hansom arab man kidnaps a white woman and she falls in love with him got women to go to the middle east in the hopes that it would happen to them.

It is easy to find individual instances were the issue of rape gets strange reactions, but then many people have rape fantasies, as both victim and perpetrator.

It is interesting to hypothosize what social elements make some fantasies more popular in some areas than others, but it is basicly intelectual masterbation.

 

[ponderingturtle]

Rape porn certainly isn't unique to Japan.

That is why I brought up boddice rippers. That might not fall under general category of porn for many people, but it is a case of men raping women being sold as fantasy material to women.

 

[Tsukasa Buddha]

Non-consensual sex is a pretty big thing in boy's love, which is a genre for females. Basically, the uke is treated horribly, but really the seme loved him and just can't express it any other way. It is basically a "rapist with a heart" story, and the uke ends up loving them in the end, or loving them enough that they don't mind the constant raping and that is the extent of their relation.

Don't assume it is just for men. Really, yaoi fangirls have tastes that give me nightmares.

 

[fuelair]

What about american women of the early 20th century? The film The Sheik where a romanticly hansom arab man kidnaps a white woman and she falls in love with him got women to go to the middle east in the hopes that it would happen to them.

It is easy to find individual instances were the issue of rape gets strange reactions, but then many people have rape fantasies, as both victim and perpetrator.

It is interesting to hypothosize what social elements make some fantasies more popular in some areas than others, but it is basicly intelectual masterbation.

If I interpret you correctly, the last sentence is incorrect. Studies have been/are being done on many aspects of "porn" including cultural norms and the relation of pornographic materials to those cultures. Fantasies, as specifically different from porn (internal creation v. external creation) are also routinely studied both re: individuals (psychological/psychiatric primarily) and cultures. Advertisers/marketers/designers are heavily into that kind of research for what, I assume, are obvious and logical reasons.

 

[ponderingturtle]

If I interpret you correctly, the last sentence is incorrect. Studies have been/are being done on many aspects of "porn" including cultural norms and the relation of pornographic materials to those cultures. Fantasies, as specifically different from porn (internal creation v. external creation) are also routinely studied both re: individuals (psychological/psychiatric primarily) and cultures. Advertisers/marketers/designers are heavily into that kind of research for what, I assume, are obvious and logical reasons.

My point is that you can correlate someones kinks with elements in society, but you can't say what made any individual person have the kinks that they do.