What's the Deal with Bisexual Erasure?

[Aridas]

Mary Sue much?

Ignoring the rest of your post in the hopes that it's sarcasm... Mary Sue generally describes a much different kind of character than what's described. If you want a Mary Sue, I can direct you to a hilariously long and bad story called TEEP.

Two bi guys who, amazingly enough, are currently in a relationship with each other, doesn't even come close to reaching Mary Sue levels.

 

[3point14]

And good for you.

I was just trying to point out that there's no real reason, I can see, for anyone to get mad at anyone.

 

[jiggeryqua]

Couldn't we just settle on 'sexual', for everyone? Even for asexuals. If you ever think you need to know the specifics of someone's sexuality, it's because you wonder if you might get to join in, surely? At that point, you ought to be able to have a conversation with a person, not a label. If you want to know because you hate fags, or think god does, or you won't employ lesbians or let a bisexual neighbour mind your kids for a while, tough luck. Sexuality is not even a spectrum, it's considerably more diverse than that - fluctuating or shifting within some individuals over time. The rainbow does make a better flag though.

 

[TragicMonkey]

Sex is really just brain chemicals and friction, why people make such a fuss about it is rather puzzling. Eventually humanity will mature to the point where we stop being so silly as to think that there's some sort of deep personal significance to the activity. If I like strawberry jam on sourdough toast, is that really so important that it should affect how I function in society? If I listen to Bach one day, and the Go-Gos the next, does that tell people how they should treat me? If on Tuesdays I enjoy a fourway with one woman and two men, all dressed in barnyard animal costumes, is that important to anybody?

 

[Antiquehunter]

If on Tuesdays I enjoy a fourway with one woman and two men, all dressed in barnyard animal costumes, is that important to anybody?

Presumably for the three participants involved, yes.

 

[Aridas]

If on Tuesdays I enjoy a fourway with one woman and two men, all dressed in barnyard animal costumes, is that important to anybody?

Yes, it's important. Jungle animal costumes are so much more stylish than barnyard animal costumes.

 

[Ziggurat]

What's the Deal with Bisexual Erasure?

Erasure is bisexual? I thought they were just gay. Not that it really matters.

 

[ponderingturtle]

Yes, it's important. Jungle animal costumes are so much more stylish than barnyard animal costumes.

But it all depends on the kink involved.

 

[Cuddles]

Couldn't we just settle on 'sexual', for everyone? Even for asexuals. If you ever think you need to know the specifics of someone's sexuality, it's because you wonder if you might get to join in, surely? At that point, you ought to be able to have a conversation with a person, not a label. If you want to know because you hate fags, or think god does, or you won't employ lesbians or let a bisexual neighbour mind your kids for a while, tough luck. Sexuality is not even a spectrum, it's considerably more diverse than that - fluctuating or shifting within some individuals over time. The rainbow does make a better flag though.

But if we just accept that what consenting adults do with their genitals is their own business, how will we know who to hate?

Edit: As for the actual topic, I think a large part of the problem is simply a lack of understanding rather than any specific hate or prejudice. As has been noted, bisexuality is more complicated, and people generally have less experience with the concept. Gender is often, and always has been, a big deal. Homosexuality is easy to understand - you prefer a different gender from the norm, but gender is still important for your sexual preference. But with bisexuality gender is far less important, and that's a long way outside most people's experience. In the same way that some religious people genuinely don't understand how it's possible not to believe gods exist, and therefore assume atheists simply hate god, I think a lot of people just can't quite grasp the idea that someone could be attracted to another person without being particularly concerned about how many x and y chromosomes they have.

 

[ponderingturtle]

I was just trying to point out that there's no real reason, I can see, for anyone to get mad at anyone.

The thing is that people often don't believe people are bi. The point that many people don't come out as bi combined with many people identifing as bi for reasons other than their sexuality being bi makes it more complex.

For many people bisexuals don't exist. Can you see how denying someones identity can bother some people?

So you get people who think bi guys are gay and bi women are straight with occasional flings that don't count with a woman because it takes a penis to be a real relationship.

 

[Doubt]

Bisexual lady speaking.

And then there are the creepy straight guys who think that having a bisexual girlfriend automatically entitles them to a threesome (with another girl of course).

Speaking from the POV of a fairly average straight male.

The creepy aspect of this mostly comes down to being poorly informed on the subject. Typical porn imagery seen by most of us contributes to the problem. As the general public becomes slightly better informed I would think there will be a trend from thinking this it automatic to just hoping that this will be the case. The smart move on the part of a straight guy is to just read the situation with their partner and not push for something only one of them wants. Of course that advice applies to a lot more than just this one problem.

 

[3point14]

The thing is that people often don't believe people are bi. The point that many people don't come out as bi combined with many people identifing as bi for reasons other than their sexuality being bi makes it more complex.

For many people bisexuals don't exist. Can you see how denying someones identity can bother some people?

Yes, it must be infuriationg for one to say 'This is me' and someone else to say 'youre wrong'. At that point, the somone else is just not worth talking to. What I was trying to say is that it's really none of anybodies damn business (save those with whom one wants to do the wild monkey dance).

 

[ponderingturtle]

Yes, it must be infuriationg for one to say 'This is me' and someone else to say 'youre wrong'. At that point, the somone else is just not worth talking to. What I was trying to say is that it's really none of anybodies damn business (save those with whom one wants to do the wild monkey dance).

Yes. But the other side is that you are more likely to accept bi people if you know them. As they have to bring it up and you can't know based on the gender of their partner it leads to it being errased by saying why bring it up.

If it is an important part of a friends of yours identity why shouldn't they bring it up?

 

[Dessi]

Isn't the proper term for that "pansexual" then?

Gf-chan is pansexual, she describes herself as bisexual without pigeonholing people into strictly male or female gender buckets, or attracted to "people" more than "gender".

 

[Upchurch]

No Bisexuals

Jack Harkness in Doctor Who/Torchwood - he'll have anything!

From the link:

Despite being explicitly described as someone who does not fit into twenty-first century categories of orientation, Jack Harkness of Torchwood is only ever seen in sexual relationships with other men. Any woman he has been sexually involved with is in his past. The closest he gets to on-screen chemistry with a female character is some flirtation with Gwen. But once he is sexually involved with Ianto, he rarely even flirts with a female character again through the rest of the series.

That said, we see him flirt and dance with multiple female characters in Doctor Who, and the "Children of Earth" mini-series introduces his daughter and grand-son, showing that he must have had a fairly long relationship with a woman in the past.​

 

[3point14]

Yes. But the other side is that you are more likely to accept bi people if you know them. As they have to bring it up and you can't know based on the gender of their partner it leads to it being errased by saying why bring it up.

If it is an important part of a friends of yours identity why shouldn't they bring it up?

If they're my friends then I think it's likely that such will be easily deduced from conversation, unless they're actively trying to conceal it, in which case then it's just their business.

Why do you think someone would have to bring it up and therefore be embarassed?

 

[Ryokan]

I can't think of an honest portrayal of bisexuality on screen outside of that movie about Kinsey.

I can only think of 2 openly bisexual characters, both on Star Trek: Dax on DS9 and Odan (the original Trill) on TNG. And both of those were only bisexual due to their species.

Ivanova on Babylon 5. Captain Jack Harkness on Doctor Who/Torchwood.

 

[Arcade22]

The issue is that human sexuality is, like most things in nature, treated in a highly simplified and idealized fashion. People like clear cut, black and white categories to understand and judge the world with even-though on closer inspection it seems more like different shades of gray. Combine this with the fact that people are judged and categorized by their public actions and most bisexuals are not in public relationships with members of their own sex, let alone publicly state that they are attracted to them or have had sex with them, it's incredibly easy for bisexuality to be ignored and the notion of sexual orientation to be treated as "straight", "gay" and no in-betweens.

 

[ponderingturtle]

Ivanova on Babylon 5. Captain Jack Harkness on Doctor Who/Torchwood.

13 on house and Inara on Firefly. Though I don't think they had serious same sex relationships. So it is hard to say how it falls. For bi women there is the "girls don't count" thing.

 

[The Greater Fool]

Jack Harkness in Doctor Who/Torchwood - he'll have anything!

Isn't the proper term for that "pansexual" then?

Incidentally, High Five? Big Doctor Who fan here (albeit one for less than a year. Binged on all seven seasons since July and now I'm watching classic episodes to hold me over til Peter Capaldi can get 45 minutes of screentime under his belt).

In Doctor Who, Captain Jack Harkness was pansexual (omnisexual?), basically if it was sentient he'd unashamedly pursue it sexually.

In Torchwood, he was gay. I don't see the reasoning behind this change, in fact I think he'd have been much more interesting retaining his Doctor Who sexuality. Something was said that Torchwood was made with the USA audience in mind, so... gay.